142 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

This is what I get I suppose for forgetting reactionaries can't be reasoned with. Enjoy being bitter.

[Merced256]

guiz i cantz ried, gib meh weel wif pictuurz soz i noez wut 2 pic

[Monica83]

I have nothing aganist Voiced character...

But if you cut race selection origins story to add one... well is not a really great feature sorry...

Tu adding voice they forced us to play as humans.. And now with all bad gameplay changes they did... Im wondering if we can continue to call DA seriers an RPG....



What is an rpg for me?: Baldur's gate series, Icewind dale series, Planescape torment, Neverwinter nights,The witcher (also if action oriented)...



If a game is born with race selection and the sequel don't have this feature is a stepback...

Planescape and the witcher have a premaded character but this is not a problem because they born in this way

[nightcobra]

SirOccam wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Well that's quite the contradiction. Being "premade" has nothing to do with how Hawke "ends up."

Is your complaint that there is a plot? I mean, presumably you can't just go play checkers in the park for the duration of the game. Having writers decide on events that are going to happen does not make Hawke a premade character. It means the game has a storyline.

What is in question here is whether Hawke comes pre-packaged with a certain personality, like Shepard did. And as of now, all signs point to No.

to me it's like,

in mass effect, the plot defines shepard's character

in dragon age, the character defines the plot.

But how do you know that it's not the same way in DA2 as it was in DAO? We know nothing of Hawke besides his/her last name and default appearance. So how we get from that to declaring that Hawke has a set personality or whatever has me confused.

Sounds like an admission that you couldn't roleplay in ME2, likely despite comments you've made previously when people said me2 wasn't an rpg. Curious. If you want to say you can RP shepard, then hes no less or no more a premade character in that context.

I was operating within the paradigm nightcobra set up. He stated his reasoning for exactly how he believes Shepard and the Warden are different, the overriding argument being that Hawke is going to be like Shepard. I have no quarrel with his first point, but I have trouble seeing the connection to Hawke here.

In short, it doesn't matter what I believe. If he thinks DAO was fine, then all I have to do is show, for the purposes of this debate, that Hawke can be like the Warden in that respect (or at least that he's not necessarily NOT like that).

As for what I believe, even though it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, I don't think roleplayability is an all-or-nothing thing. You could certainly roleplay as Shepard, but not to the extent that you could the Warden (or, I believe, that you will be able to Hawke). You still control what he approves of or disapproves of, how he treats his companions, etc. That's still roleplaying. I don't think a "premade" character means roleplaying is impossible.

In this context, "premade" means certain aspects of his personality come pre-packaged. In Shepard, we see this in the fact that he is a decorated marine. While there are variations in how he acts, it's not a very wide range. With the Warden, you have more freedom there, but note that it's never going to be unlimited freedom.

Anyway, none of this applies to Hawke (yet), and this is my point. We know nothing about him/her yet aside from his/her last name and default appearance. So I don't understand how we can be claiming Hawke is a premade character like Shepard.

note that i never wrote hawke inside my reasoning, i said characters in the dragon age series:P (i meant the warden though).
but my opinion is that hawke will be just as customizable as the warden (hawke to me is like the human commoner version that got cut in origins)

[Bryy_Miller]

SirOccam wrote...
What is in question here is whether Hawke comes pre-packaged with a certain personality, like Shepard did. And as of now, all signs point to No.

In fact, there's a personality system that's been gone into detail on where your dialogue choices affect how you act further on down the line. But some people just want to scream "you like a feature in the game, therefore you are biased" and stomp their feet. You just have to let them.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:43 .

[OriginsIsBest]

Heh, read my forum thingy at the bottom.

[John Epler]

Enough with the off-hand insults and flaming. Keep it on topic and civil.

[addiction21]

HopHazzard wrote...

And here I thought that my ten or so playthroughs qualified me for 'real fan' status. But I guess since I'm not all bent out of shape about getting a new story with a new protagonist, my love for Dragon Age is just not pure enough.

It is not pure because you did not get married before consummating that love.

Dont worry I am in the same boat as you just now discovering that I am not a real fan.

[Monica83]

sorry jhun i didin't want to insult someone if i did please sorry...

[soundchaser721]

Monica83 wrote...

I have nothing aganist Voiced character...
But if you cut race selection origins story to add one... well is not a really great feature sorry...
Tu adding voice they forced us to play as humans.. And now with all bad gameplay changes they did... Im wondering if we can continue to call DA seriers an RPG....

What is an rpg for me?: Baldur's gate series, Icewind dale series, Planescape torment, Neverwinter nights,The witcher (also if action oriented)...

If a game is born with race selection and the sequel don't have this feature is a stepback...
Planescape and the witcher have a premaded character but this is not a problem because they born in this way

I'm not too happy about Hawke being fully voiced but I'm not totally against voiced protagonists in RPG's. I like how it was handled in Final Fantasy X with Tidus, it did sort of have a cinematic aspect but it was still and RPG at heart. The thing is we had all these customizable choices in Origins and now we're sort of limited in some ways and I hope it doesn't play like a movie. If I wan't a cinematic experience, I'll watch a movie.

[nightcobra]

soundchaser721 wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

I have nothing aganist Voiced character...
But if you cut race selection origins story to add one... well is not a really great feature sorry...
Tu adding voice they forced us to play as humans.. And now with all bad gameplay changes they did... Im wondering if we can continue to call DA seriers an RPG....

What is an rpg for me?: Baldur's gate series, Icewind dale series, Planescape torment, Neverwinter nights,The witcher (also if action oriented)...

If a game is born with race selection and the sequel don't have this feature is a stepback...
Planescape and the witcher have a premaded character but this is not a problem because they born in this way

I'm not too happy about Hawke being fully voiced but I'm not totally against voiced protagonists in RPG's. I like how it was handled in Final Fantasy X with Tidus, it did sort of have a cinematic aspect but it was still and RPG at heart. The thing is we had all these customizable choices in Origins and now we're sort of limited in some ways and I hope it doesn't play like a movie. If I wan't a cinematic experience, I'll watch a movie.

who said they're limiting our choices? i don't think we have enough info to even presume that

[SirOccam]

Merced256 wrote...

guiz i cantz ried, gib meh weel wif pictuurz soz i noez wut 2 pic

Okay...so I guess the debate about personality and characterization is over, and now it's about mocking people who like the dialogue wheel for some reason? Think I'll bow out of that one.

nightcobra8928 wrote...

note that i never wrote hawke inside my reasoning, i said characters in the dragon age series[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] (i meant the warden though).
but
my opinion is that hawke will be just as customizable as the warden
(hawke to me is like the human commoner version that got cut in
origins)

Ah, okay. It seemed like your post was intended as a rebuttal to mine. In context, I thought you were drawing that distinction for the purposes of showing that Hawke was going to fall into the same "plot determines personality" category that Shepard was in.

[upsettingshorts]

And if I want to choose what block of text I want to read next, I'll get a choose your own adventure book.



Meaningless comparisons, both.

[Melcolloien]

How many threads are there about this?

really?



Bioware has been planning these series and had probobly planned to end the warden saga after Origins and then continue with someone else.

Deal with it!



It's their game.

And this talk about "my warden"

So I take it you played the game once, with one warden only ?

I have made 11 wardens, some I liked more, some I liked less.



But I am very exited about playing as Hawke and I think that you are being unfair to complain about this before you've even tried the game.



Dragon Age was never meant to be just about "tour warden" listen to the name, the Dragon Age!

The dragon age began shorty after Loghain defeated the Orlesians at the battle of river Dane, 30 something years before your character became a warden.

That means there is about 70 years left of the Dragon Age and alot more stories to tell.



If you hate the idea of not playing with your warden so much, then just don't buy the game.

There is nothing you can do to change how it is anyway

[addiction21]

nightcobra8928 wrote...


who said they're limiting our choices? i don't think we have enough info to even presume that

Pretty shure they be talking about those origins and races... again.

[OriginsIsBest]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And if I want to choose what block of text I want to read next, I'll get a choose your own adventure book.

Meaningless comparisons, both.

Does a book talk back to you?

[addiction21]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And if I want to choose what block of text I want to read next, I'll get a choose your own adventure book.

Meaningless comparisons, both.

Those things and so great. No need to worry about when you last saved when you die.

[OneDoesNotSimplySlipAndSlideInto-Mordor]

Its called Dragon age for a reason, its the story about what has occurred in Thedas during this time.



The side title origins suggests that it was the begging of the Dragon Age story and as this RPG is a story, stories tend to describe and introduce you to characters and races etc.



So dragon age 2 needs a new character, the warden couldnt travel to kirkwall and sort all the **** out there he's fighting the blight and lived or died afterwards.



Its not the wardens story its the story of Thedas during its dragons age

[OriginsIsBest]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

soundchaser721 wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

I have nothing aganist Voiced character...
But if you cut race selection origins story to add one... well is not a really great feature sorry...
Tu adding voice they forced us to play as humans.. And now with all bad gameplay changes they did... Im wondering if we can continue to call DA seriers an RPG....

What is an rpg for me?: Baldur's gate series, Icewind dale series, Planescape torment, Neverwinter nights,The witcher (also if action oriented)...

If a game is born with race selection and the sequel don't have this feature is a stepback...
Planescape and the witcher have a premaded character but this is not a problem because they born in this way

I'm not too happy about Hawke being fully voiced but I'm not totally against voiced protagonists in RPG's. I like how it was handled in Final Fantasy X with Tidus, it did sort of have a cinematic aspect but it was still and RPG at heart. The thing is we had all these customizable choices in Origins and now we're sort of limited in some ways and I hope it doesn't play like a movie. If I wan't a cinematic experience, I'll watch a movie.

who said they're limiting our choices? i don't think we have enough info to even presume that

 lol...I point out the obvious incase you missed it. Races.
Why do you think Bioware didn't continue the warden's story? Because there is too many plots. No, instead they wipe the slate clean and start a new. That's why there Mass effecting DA limiting our choices in the future basically, by choicing origins, name, race for us.

[upsettingshorts]

OriginsIsBest wrote...
Does a book talk back to you?

I read it out in my head, just like you do with your protagonist.  I'd rather games go one way or the other not meet in some half-arsed middle ground.

Text + Someone talking back at me = Clumsy

I'm all for text-for-text, like say Baldur's Gate.  But once  you start throwing in voices it better be a conversation, or it totally kills my immersion.  Didn't like it in DA:O, didn't like it in Fallout 3, heck I don't even like it in  Half-Life 2 and that isn't even an RPG.

It's not about not being able to read or being intimidated by choice.  I've got just as much of a well developed sense of taste as anyone else on these boards, and I'm damn sick of being talked down to like I'm some rube because I want to hear my protagonist speak.

Have some respect for opposing viewpoints and maybe I won't be so hostile to or dismissive of your opinions.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:58 .

[Merced256]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And if I want to choose what block of text I want to read next, I'll get a choose your own adventure book.

Meaningless comparisons, both.

So you still read those fisher price books that talk to you bro?

for the record i do think you're a rube, just to clarify.

Modifié par Merced256, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:58 .

[nightcobra]

SirOccam wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

guiz i cantz ried, gib meh weel wif pictuurz soz i noez wut 2 pic

Okay...so I guess the debate about personality and characterization is over, and now it's about mocking people who like the dialogue wheel for some reason? Think I'll bow out of that one.

nightcobra8928 wrote...

note that i never wrote hawke inside my reasoning, i said characters in the dragon age series[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] (i meant the warden though).
but
my opinion is that hawke will be just as customizable as the warden
(hawke to me is like the human commoner version that got cut in
origins)

Ah, okay. It seemed like your post was intended as a rebuttal to mine. In context, I thought you were drawing that distinction for the purposes of showing that Hawke was going to fall into the same "plot determines personality" category that Shepard was in.

if i was talking about hawke, my point would be that he/she would be the to one drive the plot forward, unlike shepard that is driven by the plot

[upsettingshorts]

Merced256 wrote...
So you still read those fisher price books that talk to you bro?

That would actually be a fantastic description of how I feel about Dragon Age: Origins-esque text choices that result in voiced responses.  Thanks for pointing that out.

[OriginsIsBest]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...
Does a book talk back to you?

I read it out in my head, just like you do with your protagonist.  I'd rather games go one way or the other not meet in some half-arsed middle ground.

Text + Someone talking back at me = Clumsy

I'm all for text-for-text, like say Baldur's Gate.  But once  you start throwing in voices it better be a conversation, or it totally kills my immersion.  Didn't like it in DA:O, didn't like it in Fallout 3, heck I don't even like it in  Half-Life 2 and that isn't even an RPG.

It's not about not being able to read or being intimidated by choice.  I've got just as much of a well developed sense of taste as anyone else on these boards, and I'm damn sick of being talked down to like I'm some rube because I want to hear my protagonist speak.

Have some respect for opposing viewpoints and maybe I won't be so hostile to or dismissive of your opinions.

Basically you like some other dudes voice, instead of your inner voice...........okay.

[Merced256]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...
Does a book talk back to you?

I read it out in my head, just like you do with your protagonist.  I'd rather games go one way or the other not meet in some half-arsed middle ground.

Text + Someone talking back at me = Clumsy

I'm all for text-for-text, like say Baldur's Gate.  But once  you start throwing in voices it better be a conversation, or it totally kills my immersion.  Didn't like it in DA:O, didn't like it in Fallout 3, heck I don't even like it in  Half-Life 2 and that isn't even an RPG.

It's not about not being able to read or being intimidated by choice.  I've got just as much of a well developed sense of taste as anyone else on these boards, and I'm damn sick of being talked down to like I'm some rube because I want to hear my protagonist speak.

Have some respect for opposing viewpoints and maybe I won't be so hostile to or dismissive of your opinions.

Basically you like some other dudes voice, instead of your inner voice...........okay.

Sheep have no inner voice.