I read somewhere about saving as a directory. How is this done? I use the Save Directory, yet not seeing my mod there. And is there any benefit to doing this versus just flat out saving as a mod? Thanks.
Save as directory
Débuté par
LordNyvek
, sept. 15 2010 08:34
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#2
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 11:36
Lugaid of the Red Stripes
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Save directory saves your mod as a directory, not a single .mod file. So when you go to look at your files, you should see a whole directory with your module name (you might need to use 'save as' first to convert your .mod to a directory). Converting between a directory and a .mod file erases the old file, so make sure to make copies before you do it.
The chief advantage of using directory mode is that the toolset doesn't have to constantly compress and extract the module to and from a .mod file every time you save and load. Not only is the process time-consuming, but it leaves you vulnerable to bugs in the saving process that can corrupt your whole module. With directory mode, each individual piece of your module (area, script, convo, blueprint) is saved as a separate file, so you're only risking one small component at a time.
When you first start off with a small module, you'll not notice much difference, but as your module gets larger as you work on it, especially if you have limited RAM, you'll start to notice serious issues with saving in module mode.
Oh, and turn off the autosave. It's evil.
The chief advantage of using directory mode is that the toolset doesn't have to constantly compress and extract the module to and from a .mod file every time you save and load. Not only is the process time-consuming, but it leaves you vulnerable to bugs in the saving process that can corrupt your whole module. With directory mode, each individual piece of your module (area, script, convo, blueprint) is saved as a separate file, so you're only risking one small component at a time.
When you first start off with a small module, you'll not notice much difference, but as your module gets larger as you work on it, especially if you have limited RAM, you'll start to notice serious issues with saving in module mode.
Oh, and turn off the autosave. It's evil.
#3
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 11:40
LordNyvek
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If I already have a .mod file, how do I save as a directory? And yeah, autosave turned off was the first thing I ever did. First time I tried to make a mod and it did that, I immediately learned how to disable it.
#4
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 12:33
dunniteowl
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When you save, choose to Save As instead of Save. Then simply name your folder (it should pop up a folder option, hang on let me check...) okay my bad.
Choose, NOT Save As, but instead, go a little lower in your File options and select: Save Directory. This will bring up a small App Box with a list of your directories already saved and a line at the top where you can input the name you want to call your directory.
Easy peasy.
dunniteowl
Choose, NOT Save As, but instead, go a little lower in your File options and select: Save Directory. This will bring up a small App Box with a list of your directories already saved and a line at the top where you can input the name you want to call your directory.
Easy peasy.
dunniteowl
#5
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 04:26
_Knightmare_
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dunniteowl wrote...
When you save, choose to Save As instead of Save. Then simply name your folder (it should pop up a folder option, hang on let me check...) okay my bad.
Choose, NOT Save As, but instead, go a little lower in your File options and select: Save Directory. This will bring up a small App Box with a list of your directories already saved and a line at the top where you can input the name you want to call your directory.
Easy peasy.
dunniteowl
DNO has it right here. Just wanted to add that after you save it as a Directory, you can just use the normal Save option and it will continue to save it to the Directory - you do not need to use the Save Directory each time, only for that first go at it.
Make a backup of your .mod file somewhere outside the NWN2 folder before you convert it though.
#7
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 06:04
MasterChanger
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_Knightmare_ wrote...
Just wanted to add that after you save it as a Directory, you can just use the normal Save option and it will continue to save it to the Directory - you do not need to use the Save Directory each time, only for that first go at it.
And in fact you don't want to use Save Directory after that first time, is my experience. If you do use Save Directory each time, you either risk overwriting something else, or, if you write to a different directory to back up, it doesn't keep the original.
So if you want backup directories, my process is to create a new directory outside of the TS and just copy everything over. From then on it's just open the relevant directory and just plain old Save.
#8
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 08:57
painofdungeoneternal
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Well it's more than that as well, as being folders allows a lot more options in workflows since it makes all the little pieces just simple files, and helps you avoid using those ERF things which some amateurs still think make things easier. ( a hint, never import an ERF unless you know for a fact it won't overwrite anything or you have a backup, it's a lot wiser to extract it all to a folder via nwn2packer and drag into your modules directory folder and you can say yes or no for each file it wants to overwrite. )
Once its in a directory you can choose what is in a given directory from windows explorer. So if you have 200 areas, well that takes forever to load. Go ahead and make a new empty module, and put into it all the files for the overall module so it has the exact same settings. Then you have a "real" module which you really never have to touch, and a working copy which you edit which is very small. I also maintain a scripting and UI module just to test builds, scripts, spells and the like which only has 2-3 areas and has a lot of example environments from my module. This loads for testing in seconds and allows me to reload things constantly without waiting for my entire module, and since it's smaller it's a lot less likely to run into corruption issues.
When you add a new area, you just drag it from your working copy to the real module. If you need to add doorways and transistions make a copy of the given areas that link to the new area and make sure they work in the test module. You have to know that each area is 5 files, but once you figure out the way it works its just dragging things back and forth.
Working this way you don't ever risk your real module, and your development module can contain all the things which are in beta, as you get em up to your standards you drag em into the real module.
Working this way you cannot really lose your module, if you need to open the real module, perhaps for staging the pw or to make a "module" to distribute, go ahead and back it up to a DVD disk or a USB removable drive. Always have a backup.
The advantages to this, well one issue is if you connect to a PW and dev that PW, you can overwrite your real module which i did last week, basically nothing was left. I had a USB saved version of the real module from about 3 months ago, and in my dev module i had everything which was not backed up to that USB copy in those 3 months. Yep three months of work and all the DVD's i had burned in those 3 months ended up not working at all. Seems like a crisis but all i had to do was restore the USB version, drop in the changed files again from my dev module and no worries, i was back up and running in under 15 minutes. The trick to it is to always have 2 real copies so if one goes belly up you are not stressing over it.
Of course working this way makes you aware of what files are used to make things work in your module as well, which to some might seem to much information, but knowing this is also how you learn to manage and control what you are creating. If you keep various versions this can let you revert an area, or perhaps even swap out areas ( like having 3 copies of your main town each being in various stages of being rubble or being whole ). Or revert to how things were 3 months ago if you realize that some bug started right after a given change.
Once its in a directory you can choose what is in a given directory from windows explorer. So if you have 200 areas, well that takes forever to load. Go ahead and make a new empty module, and put into it all the files for the overall module so it has the exact same settings. Then you have a "real" module which you really never have to touch, and a working copy which you edit which is very small. I also maintain a scripting and UI module just to test builds, scripts, spells and the like which only has 2-3 areas and has a lot of example environments from my module. This loads for testing in seconds and allows me to reload things constantly without waiting for my entire module, and since it's smaller it's a lot less likely to run into corruption issues.
When you add a new area, you just drag it from your working copy to the real module. If you need to add doorways and transistions make a copy of the given areas that link to the new area and make sure they work in the test module. You have to know that each area is 5 files, but once you figure out the way it works its just dragging things back and forth.
Working this way you don't ever risk your real module, and your development module can contain all the things which are in beta, as you get em up to your standards you drag em into the real module.
Working this way you cannot really lose your module, if you need to open the real module, perhaps for staging the pw or to make a "module" to distribute, go ahead and back it up to a DVD disk or a USB removable drive. Always have a backup.
The advantages to this, well one issue is if you connect to a PW and dev that PW, you can overwrite your real module which i did last week, basically nothing was left. I had a USB saved version of the real module from about 3 months ago, and in my dev module i had everything which was not backed up to that USB copy in those 3 months. Yep three months of work and all the DVD's i had burned in those 3 months ended up not working at all. Seems like a crisis but all i had to do was restore the USB version, drop in the changed files again from my dev module and no worries, i was back up and running in under 15 minutes. The trick to it is to always have 2 real copies so if one goes belly up you are not stressing over it.
Of course working this way makes you aware of what files are used to make things work in your module as well, which to some might seem to much information, but knowing this is also how you learn to manage and control what you are creating. If you keep various versions this can let you revert an area, or perhaps even swap out areas ( like having 3 copies of your main town each being in various stages of being rubble or being whole ). Or revert to how things were 3 months ago if you realize that some bug started right after a given change.
Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 15 septembre 2010 - 09:01 .
#9
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 11:21
LordNyvek
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Here's my conundrum with this. I already have a .mod file, Chapter 1. It has 2 areas, 4 conversations, several blueprints, and a couple of scripts. If I load it up, and choose Save Directory, I start getting errors when I try to open a conversation. If I close/reopen the toolset and Open Directory, there's nothing. It's just an empty module, with the exception of my blueprints.
#10
Posté 16 septembre 2010 - 11:26
LordNyvek
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HAHA, and I'm such a nub. 
I read painofdungeoneternal's post, and failed to notice he gave me what I need to make this work from the offset. nwn2packer. Brilliant stuff!
I read painofdungeoneternal's post, and failed to notice he gave me what I need to make this work from the offset. nwn2packer. Brilliant stuff!
#11
Posté 18 septembre 2010 - 05:58
Kaldor Silverwand
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painofdungeoneternal wrote...
...and helps you avoid using those ERF things which some amateurs still think make things easier.
I don't avoid importing ERFs. I know what they are and how they work. I also choose to do all of my modding using .mod files. We are all amateur NWN2 modders. Some have more experience modding than others. Some of us are or have been professional developers and some are not, but none of us are professional NWN2 modders. So I find this statement somewhat insulting. A shame it mars an otherwise useful post.
Regards
#12
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 12:58
painofdungeoneternal
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I think you are looking for umbrage there.
Just because you have not had a problem with how you do things, what i am describing is based on my own experience, as well as helping a lot of people recover from oops moments in IRC chat. I often end up being told what i recommend is not necessary or extreme, but likewise i have helped countless people who after trying things realize they do make things easier for them. I'd prefer new modders to learn from my mistakes instead of figuring this stuff out on their own. Working in module mode which is obviously easier for end users, well when you have a problem it's not just inconvenience, it's hoping you still have that temp folder or a backup, or that nwn2packer can still access the now corrupt module. Even if you've never seen that, it only has to happen once.
When it comes to issues like this, which i've seen modders lose hours upon hour of lost development, when it can be avoided by simple and easy changes in how things are done, i'd strongly prefer new modders hear about it early instead of having to learn based on their own mistakes. I've already lost my entire module quite a few times, and it took me a while to realize module mode has fundamental flaws where if you cut the power to your computer at the wrong time you can lose everything.
The problem with ERF's is they cater to making things easy. However they make it not only easy to transfer items, they make it easy to overwrite your entire module, scripts, blueprints, which is great if you carefully name everything in your ERF. However the folks using ERF's are usually the same ones who tend to use names which tend to conflict, and instead of properly merging a given file you overwrite it. Now sometimes you see a problem right away, but far more likely you end up with a weird issue much later which the user has no idea why that file changed.
I've had major problems created by importing ERF's where it made me lose quite a bit of work, and i have spoken to enough people in IRC to know just not using ERF import would have prevented a lot problems to begin with. Now that i don't use ERF's, but copy the files in, i get a warning which allows me to know if it's going to overwrite any files. If you really want to use ERF's, and to use module mode, just make sure you have a good backup of everything and double check what is in the ERF prior to importing.
Note that if the toolset worked different, if it gave warning on ERF import, or if it only deleted the original module file after it finished writing the new module file ( which is standard in most programs ) then how you work would be perfectly fine.
Just because you have not had a problem with how you do things, what i am describing is based on my own experience, as well as helping a lot of people recover from oops moments in IRC chat. I often end up being told what i recommend is not necessary or extreme, but likewise i have helped countless people who after trying things realize they do make things easier for them. I'd prefer new modders to learn from my mistakes instead of figuring this stuff out on their own. Working in module mode which is obviously easier for end users, well when you have a problem it's not just inconvenience, it's hoping you still have that temp folder or a backup, or that nwn2packer can still access the now corrupt module. Even if you've never seen that, it only has to happen once.
When it comes to issues like this, which i've seen modders lose hours upon hour of lost development, when it can be avoided by simple and easy changes in how things are done, i'd strongly prefer new modders hear about it early instead of having to learn based on their own mistakes. I've already lost my entire module quite a few times, and it took me a while to realize module mode has fundamental flaws where if you cut the power to your computer at the wrong time you can lose everything.
The problem with ERF's is they cater to making things easy. However they make it not only easy to transfer items, they make it easy to overwrite your entire module, scripts, blueprints, which is great if you carefully name everything in your ERF. However the folks using ERF's are usually the same ones who tend to use names which tend to conflict, and instead of properly merging a given file you overwrite it. Now sometimes you see a problem right away, but far more likely you end up with a weird issue much later which the user has no idea why that file changed.
I've had major problems created by importing ERF's where it made me lose quite a bit of work, and i have spoken to enough people in IRC to know just not using ERF import would have prevented a lot problems to begin with. Now that i don't use ERF's, but copy the files in, i get a warning which allows me to know if it's going to overwrite any files. If you really want to use ERF's, and to use module mode, just make sure you have a good backup of everything and double check what is in the ERF prior to importing.
Note that if the toolset worked different, if it gave warning on ERF import, or if it only deleted the original module file after it finished writing the new module file ( which is standard in most programs ) then how you work would be perfectly fine.
Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:32 .
#13
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 01:15
Bronn MacLaern
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Hey guys, quick question about Directory vs Mod, that being an amateur will probably sound dumb to any pro's out there...
My 3rd mod in a campaign is starting to get seriously big, with a lot of condition based cutscenes/convos and so on... It needs frequent testing within the campaign framework, not just as a single mod, as it needs to drag Campaign Journal entries, and Variables from multiple modules...
My question...
If I start using the Directory save, will updates be acesible if I run the campaign, or does it need to be saved as a .mod proper for the Campaign facility to work?
I know I could probably just test it to find out, but my gaming PC is in another room, and has shut down for the night, I'm sitting with a glass of wine browsing and watching Leverage... and I know how much you guys love to answer simple questions like this for dufuses (dufii?) like me..
(Knightmare, you know I'm looking at you!)
My 3rd mod in a campaign is starting to get seriously big, with a lot of condition based cutscenes/convos and so on... It needs frequent testing within the campaign framework, not just as a single mod, as it needs to drag Campaign Journal entries, and Variables from multiple modules...
My question...
If I start using the Directory save, will updates be acesible if I run the campaign, or does it need to be saved as a .mod proper for the Campaign facility to work?
I know I could probably just test it to find out, but my gaming PC is in another room, and has shut down for the night, I'm sitting with a glass of wine browsing and watching Leverage... and I know how much you guys love to answer simple questions like this for dufuses (dufii?) like me..
(Knightmare, you know I'm looking at you!)
#14
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 02:31
painofdungeoneternal
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Modules and directories work the same way. I would not keep a module with the same name in your module folder as it just makes things confusing for both the game and for testing.
Work in directory mode, when you are all done save it as a module to distribute it ( making sure to back it up prior as the toolset deletes the directory when you save as module ).
Work in directory mode, when you are all done save it as a module to distribute it ( making sure to back it up prior as the toolset deletes the directory when you save as module ).
#15
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 03:18
Morbane
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painofdungeoneternal wrote...
( making sure to back it up prior as the toolset deletes the directory when you save as module ).
Good to know.
Modifié par Morbane, 19 septembre 2010 - 03:19 .
#16
Posté 19 septembre 2010 - 01:52
_Knightmare_
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Bronn MacLaern wrote...
Hey guys, quick question about Directory vs Mod, that being an amateur will probably sound dumb to any pro's out there...
My 3rd mod in a campaign is starting to get seriously big, with a lot of condition based cutscenes/convos and so on... It needs frequent testing within the campaign framework, not just as a single mod, as it needs to drag Campaign Journal entries, and Variables from multiple modules...
My question...
If I start using the Directory save, will updates be acesible if I run the campaign, or does it need to be saved as a .mod proper for the Campaign facility to work?
I know I could probably just test it to find out, but my gaming PC is in another room, and has shut down for the night, I'm sitting with a glass of wine browsing and watching Leverage... and I know how much you guys love to answer simple questions like this for dufuses (dufii?) like me..
(Knightmare, you know I'm looking at you!)
Pain pretty much explained it, but - yes, you can still run things as a campaign and have it all work as normal when the module's are in Directory mode.
I'm with Pain on that whole Directory vs. .mod format as well (though to each their own as it is a personal thing really). In my experience, I have NEVER lost a single file when working in Directory mode, even when my toolset crashes for what ever reason. I have suffered from total module corruption when things crashed in .mod format. Not only that, but things seem to load up much quicker in the toolset (not sure about in game though).
However, I do use ERFs to transfer some stuff between modules. It does give you a warning that a file of the same name is going to be overwritten if/when that situation occurs. Mostly though, I only move areas around out of my "builder" module into my "true" module. I have my Build modules associated with my campaign as another module within it. So, the vast majority of my blueprints, convos, scripts, etc. are campaign level assets. No need to move things at all if you work it like that. Plus that would most likely make things easier on myself for future updates having things mostly at the campaign level. Occasionally I do just copy/paste things directly through the Windows folders.
