121 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Gerudan wrote...

Antaress wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

Is there someone here, who knows if there was a Blight in which the Archdemon Slayer has survived?

Only Our Warden

So...how would Flemeth know, that the ritual would work? 

That's why the theory that she either did it before or that she is the child of someone who did it before is quite popular. Another explaination could as well be that she is that old and powerful that she just knows because of her insight in magic. I think even those who doubt that Flemeth is an old god or elven god agree that she must be about the most powerful being around the Dragon Age. Another thing I wonder is how she managed to rescue the Warden from the Tower of Ishal even though there was an Archdemon around (Duncan sensed him). In dragon form she couldn't really hide and would at least compromise her existance.

[Mickespel]

AlexXIV wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

Antaress wrote...

Gerudan wrote...

Is there someone here, who knows if there was a Blight in which the Archdemon Slayer has survived?

Only Our Warden

So...how would Flemeth know, that the ritual would work? 

That's why the theory that she either did it before or that she is the child of someone who did it before is quite popular. Another explaination could as well be that she is that old and powerful that she just knows because of her insight in magic. I think even those who doubt that Flemeth is an old god or elven god agree that she must be about the most powerful being around the Dragon Age. Another thing I wonder is how she managed to rescue the Warden from the Tower of Ishal even though there was an Archdemon around (Duncan sensed him). In dragon form she couldn't really hide and would at least compromise her existance.

Duncan senses the Archdemon in the sense that it had avoken. It is not until we are in the deep roads that it leaves for the surface, there is a cinematic where we actually see this, not a dream sequence.

[Marilynde]

If the Old Gods are sleeping then wouldn't it make sense that they are also dreaming?  And if they're dreaming, then aren't they in The Fade?  The Young Flemeth summoned fade spirits to kill Conobar and apparently became an abomination when a demon possessed her, right?  Perhaps it wasn't a demon that found and possessed her, but one of the dreaming Old Gods. 

And Flemeth was a powerful mage, right? So couldn't it be true that she actually mastered the spirit of the Old God? Then she had the power of the Old God, though she still had her human form. The power of the Old God drove her crazy and so forth. Just speculating but I think it makes kind of sense. I still have to read the codexes to make everything fit, but it's a beginning?
And I wonder how Flemeth became a shapechanger ..

[Lord Gremlin]

I just would like to know if DA writer have already decided among themselves who Flemeth is...

[Marilynde]

Maybe they just read all this and laugh at us because our speculations are far off the reality they decided it would be.. Or maybe they don't know yet and steal our little ideas! Either way, I'm curious

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Russalka wrote...

From an Archdemon corpse after they actually managed to kill him.
But his spirit just jumped to the next available Darkspawn.

This makes sense, the codex and wiki both state it took 90 years to end the first blight.  So Dumat keep jumping around into different bodies, this is also a Flemeth trick.  She has taken over the bodies of several daughters.  Seems logical.  The Grey Wardens finally discovered how to kill an arch demon but where did they get the first blood to actually become Grey Wardens to kill Dumat first.  Interesting question, Trevinter mage trick?

I can't determine if Flemeth is an old god or not.  I've been thinking along the lines that she is a shapeshifting qunari mage.  I just finished another playthrough of killing Flemeth and she does change clothes from when you first meet her in the wilds to when you actually go kill her, if you do kill her.  She changes into robes like Wynne.  Wynne is not happy with a female character having a relationship with Alistair and she tries to steer you away from said relationship if you go that route with Alistair.

I've got weird SPECULATION going on in my head that Wynne was actually Flemeth and not Morrigan.  Morrigan is actually who she says she is, her daughter or was Morrigan really her daughter, there are strange dialogue choices with Morrigan and she resents the fact that you question her on being Flemeth's actual daughter,  you get a disapproval rating from Morrigan if you do.

We never actually see Wynne in the battle of Ostagar we are just told that she is there, by Wynne herself.  Strange encounter in Awakenings and RTO comments from Wynne, don't forget that.  Wynne does tell us that her fade spirit could be a spirit of faith.....could this be a spirit of the Qun faith?

The only way for Flemeth to be an old god, she had to figure out a way of breaking out of the Maker's prison.  There is the possibility that the chanty miscounted the old gods.  There could be more of them.  This all happened along time ago in Thedas history.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[thedarke]

I think the likelihood is that if Flemeth is anything else other than what has been explained on the face of it, then she is Fen'Harel. The line about Considering what the world has done to me, I have already done more than it deserves." and "That is between the world and me." just seems to fit better with the scant bits of information we have about any of it.
It is how divorced from the "two sides" to the struggle going on in Theda she is that leads me to think that as well. She's not with Chantry, nor with the DS, and that kind of fits Fen'Harel's MO.

As for the Maker, I think that he doesn't exist, at least not as a monotheistic entity, unless you're going to call Fen'Harel the Maker (Elven history says Fen'Harel tricked the Forgotten Ones to be sealed below, and the Gods in the Heavens).

We'll see (hopefully) in six months time...

Modifié par thedarke, 30 septembre 2010 - 08:27 .

[Brockololly]

I sure as hell hope we learn a great deal more about Flemeth in DA2, as the whole Flemeth/Morrigan storyline is the most interesting thing about DA to me. But considering how little the writers seem to like to answer, I'm guessing anything Flemeh related in DA2 will be like Witch Hunt- only getting more questions and hardly any answers.

[Alikain]

I think I may have found the answer to all this. We know that the mages of the Tevinter Imperium worshipped the Old Gods in their dragon’s forms. We also know these Old Gods initially taught mages how to use magic. Now what we don’t know is what the Old Gods actually are and their relation to the Maker. We also know that they turned mortals from worship of the Maker, recognized as the “First sin”, resulting in the imprisoned them underground. Their minds continued to roam the fade like any other dreaming individual’s mind would and this lead them to be able to contact the Magisters. According to the codex the Magisters only worshipped seven Old Gods. What if they were more than seven to begin with?

This could me that Flemeth could be one of the other Old Gods who had nothing to do with the other seven who brought about the First sin and got imprisoned for it or was the master planner who escape.

Flemeth quotes from the game make me think she hate the mortal world for their part they play in their imprisonment or she want the mortal world all for herself.

Flemeth: “Considering what the world has done to me, I have already done more than it deserves.

Warden: “And what has the world done to you?”

Flemeth: “that is between the world and me” Here is feels like her plan didn’t go well or the mortal world is to be blame for all this.

Other quotes which I find more interesting.

“It is a dance old Flemeth knows well.... Let’s see if she can remember the steps!” mean she very good at hiding.

“Choice....There is great power in choices, as there are in lies. I shall give one of each. Here I felt she made a choice not to side with the other Old Gods or she betray them all.

[Iberius]

Brockololly wrote...

I sure as hell hope we learn a great deal more about Flemeth in DA2, as the whole Flemeth/Morrigan storyline is the most interesting thing about DA to me. But considering how little the writers seem to like to answer, I'm guessing anything Flemeh related in DA2 will be like Witch Hunt- only getting more questions and hardly any answers.

Well, if nothing else I hope we get to hear a little bit more of Flemeth's history, but as you say it will probably just lead to more questions. At the same time I like Flemeth in part because we don't know everything about her. If we did........she just wouldn't be Flemeth.

More than anything I just want something big to happen to sort of break the ice on Morrigan/Flemeth story. Right now it seems like all we have to go on is hints about hints of their story.

[Kajros]

Well in Dragon Age Origins once you begin to talk more to Morrigan and get the Black Grimoire, things get said. Morrigan states that in old stories Flemeth was once human but sided herself with a Demon and became an abomination. Either the demon took control, Flemeth took control, or the coexist. Now, what I believe is Flemeth found an Old God and instead of the Old God awakening she took control of it and uses it's powers as her own. Just a theory.

[Spartansfan8888]

I'm starting to think at this point that Flemeth is outside of any lore or creatures we have encountered so far. Perhaps in DA2 we'll encounter more but I think it depends on how much Flemeth hangs around Hawke, if we get another daughter as a companion, or if we encounter someone that has as much experience with Flemeth as Morrigan did.

[Morroian]

Kajros wrote...

Well in Dragon Age Origins once you begin to talk more to Morrigan and get the Black Grimoire, things get said. Morrigan states that in old stories Flemeth was once human but sided herself with a Demon and became an abomination. Either the demon took control, Flemeth took control, or the coexist. Now, what I believe is Flemeth found an Old God and instead of the Old God awakening she took control of it and uses it's powers as her own. Just a theory.

Dunno about an old god, but I do believe that Flemeth was once human and she accrued power by consorting with demons, or whatever, while retaining control. I believe she was part of a dragon cult (Morrigan too) and a dragon allowed her to study it so she could learn to shapeshift into a dragon form. She may have even used dragon blood to increase her power in some fashion, similar to what the Grey Wardens do.

ETA: I do think she probably wants to set herself up as a god.

Modifié par Morroian, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:42 .

[Brockololly]

Iberius wrote...
Well, if nothing else I hope we get to hear a little bit more of Flemeth's history, but as you say it will probably just lead to more questions. At the same time I like Flemeth in part because we don't know everything about her. If we did........she just wouldn't be Flemeth.

Oh sure, thats part of why I like Morrigan too, its the mystery. But there is a difference between giving ambiguous vague answers that can fuel speculation and be fun versus the Witch Hunt route of not giving any answers at all while only providing more vague questions.

Iberius wrote...
More than anything I just want something big to happen to sort of break the ice on Morrigan/Flemeth story. Right now it seems like all we have to go on is hints about hints of their story.

Definitely, and I'm hoping/thinking thats what we'll get by the time DA2 is over, what with the world on the brink of war and the Chantry crumbling. Even if Flemeth doesn't provide answers directly or verbally, whatever it is she's up to, we hopefully get better insight into her at least through her actions.

It just seems like the whole Flemeth/Morrigan story is kind of at a simmer, with DA2 it maybe gets to a nice boil and then hopefully come DA3 it boils over into World War Thedas with Flemeth vs. Morrigan with the Warden and Old God Baby and maybe Hawke in there too.

I'd preorder that game right this second.

Kajros wrote...
Well in Dragon Age Origins once you begin  to talk more to Morrigan and get the Black Grimoire, things get said.
Morrigan states that in old stories Flemeth was once human but sided  herself with a Demon and became an abomination. Either the demon took  control, Flemeth took control, or the coexist. Now, what I believe is  Flemeth found an Old God and instead of the Old God awakening she took  control of it and uses it's powers as her own. Just a theory.

Well, if we believe Morrigan's telling of the legend of Flemeth, Flemeth actually called on spirits first, then much later she found a demon. But then in Witch Hunt we've got Morrigan saying Flemeth isn't an abomination or even human. I guess that begs the question- has Flemeth ever been human or is she something completely beyond our comprehension.....thats it! Flemeth isn't an Old God- Flemeth is one of the Great Old Ones!

Flemeth is Cthulhu!

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:38 .

[Silentmode]

Brockololly wrote...

Well, if we believe Morrigan's telling of the legend of Flemeth, Flemeth actually called on spirits first, then much later she found a demon. But then in Witch Hunt we've got Morrigan saying Flemeth isn't an abomination or even human. I guess that begs the question- has Flemeth ever been human or is she something completely beyond our comprehension.....thats it! Flemeth isn't an Old God- Flemeth is one of the Great Old Ones!

Flemeth is Cthulhu!

Flemeth is a reaper!

[Kajros]

Well, we know anything and everything about Flemeth does not involve the Taint. Even Grey Warden's their lives are shortened due to the taint. I am uncertain to what Flemeth is and hopefully with DA2 we will finally know exactly what she is. She could not take Morrigans body so I am curious how she came back. If your Warden or any other Warden performed the ritual there is no way the Child Morrigan has could even be old enough for Flemeth to take. Morrigan even stated it was easier for Flemeth to take a body if it was prepared and the child would not be. My question is, Morrigan left in the Witch Hunt DLC. Now who's body did Flemeth take?

[Spartansfan8888]

Kajros wrote...

Well, we know anything and everything about Flemeth does not involve the Taint. Even Grey Warden's their lives are shortened due to the taint. I am uncertain to what Flemeth is and hopefully with DA2 we will finally know exactly what she is. She could not take Morrigans body so I am curious how she came back. If your Warden or any other Warden performed the ritual there is no way the Child Morrigan has could even be old enough for Flemeth to take. Morrigan even stated it was easier for Flemeth to take a body if it was prepared and the child would not be. My question is, Morrigan left in the Witch Hunt DLC. Now who's body did Flemeth take?

I think that remains to be seen... if I'm not mistaken Hawke's initial Flemeth encounter takes place before the warden slew her or bargained for the grimoire.

[Alikain]

Kajros wrote...

Well, we know anything and everything about Flemeth does not involve the Taint. Even Grey Warden's their lives are shortened due to the taint. I am uncertain to what Flemeth is and hopefully with DA2 we will finally know exactly what she is. She could not take Morrigans body so I am curious how she came back. If your Warden or any other Warden performed the ritual there is no way the Child Morrigan has could even be old enough for Flemeth to take. Morrigan even stated it was easier for Flemeth to take a body if it was prepared and the child would not be. My question is, Morrigan left in the Witch Hunt DLC. Now who's body did Flemeth take?

from the trailer she looks like female qunari

[Kajros]

Alikain wrote...

Kajros wrote...

Well, we know anything and everything about Flemeth does not involve the Taint. Even Grey Warden's their lives are shortened due to the taint. I am uncertain to what Flemeth is and hopefully with DA2 we will finally know exactly what she is. She could not take Morrigans body so I am curious how she came back. If your Warden or any other Warden performed the ritual there is no way the Child Morrigan has could even be old enough for Flemeth to take. Morrigan even stated it was easier for Flemeth to take a body if it was prepared and the child would not be. My question is, Morrigan left in the Witch Hunt DLC. Now who's body did Flemeth take?

from the trailer she looks like female qunari

True from some concept art she has what looks like a dragons arm?  So nnot sure.  She could have had a body lined up just in case Morrigan found her out.

[ProfessionalPirate]

With response to the more than seven old gods theory.



I think it might be tru cause IF i remember correctly when in ostagar before the joining ritual when talking to alistair a mention is said of the Tevinter zodiac and if i remeber he mentiond that there were more then just 7 "dragons" that were in the sky. perhaps someone who recalls that better than me can clarify.



That said, if tru I think the most plausible theory is that a dreaming unmentioned old god has possesed flemeth's body but has to use it's soul jumping trick to stay "awake" so that it can evade the DS. also whos to say it needs to posses a human right off the bat... after you kill her couldn't she possess somthing else. perhaps a tree and became a sylvan or a wolf and becoming werewolf befor finding a human host?

[ShrinkingFish]

Antaress wrote...

I was reading CODEXs and found something interesting about old gods and there names 

...........................................................
Dumat, the Dragon of Silence and the archdemon of the First Blight

Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and the archdemon of the Second Blight

Toth, the Dragon of Fire and the archdemon of the Third Blight

Andoral, the Dragon of Chains and the archdemon of the Fourth Blight

Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty and the archdemon of the Fifth Blight

Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery

Lusacan, the Dragon of Night
...........................................................

You see Razikale if female name who could be a reference to Raziel the "angel of mystery/God's secret"
So there is possibility that Razikale might be Flemeth itself  and it might be more or equal powerful as Dumat which was strongest one as we know. Dumat was so strong that it took 90 years to stop blight and third of Thedas nation was dead. So if if Flemeth really is Razikale  than we might have huge changes and only wardens or champions wont be enough to stop all this chaos, so this is were Morrigans child comes in. Since he is old God (Urthemiel) he has more chance to stop Flemeth than any one else .....



well what do you think? 

More theory connecting to this claim here: http://social.biowar...index/4828123/1

I posted it a while back, anyways, glad to see I'm not the only conspiracy buff who came up with this one.

My post includes some allusions to future events, a closer look at the connection to Flemeth and High Dragons as well as some additional lore and theories based on that lore. Take a look if you're interested.

[thedarke]

I think the Dragon in the EA logo for DA2 is Flemeth also. If you look at the hair style of Flemeth and the horn arrangement on the Dragon's skull, it's very similar. Also from the PC Gamer UK preview they stated Hawke meets Flemeth early on during a confrontation with Hurlocks- followed by a screenshot of Hawke and his sister standing by whilst said Dragon from the EA logo is smacking around Hurlocks.



Makes me think that the Flemeth we met at the hut is not the Flemeth here, as the Dragon model is different (and she looks different, utterly so). That could be an artistic decision, given the focus on DA2 having a distinct and less "brown" art style, or it could be a plot point.



We'll learn more (probably a lot) of Flemeth in DA2- doesn't mean it won't lead to deeper questions- like what was the city seen on the other side of the Eluvian during the Dalish origin (which must have been where Morrigan was going- beyond the Fade- the Black City? Arlathan? Somewhere not yet mentioned?), what are the Qunari after in Kirkwall (it's a bit south for the landing for an invasion- is it the strategic control Kirkwall offers, or something else?), What is Hawke doing wielding Blood Magic in the Destiny Trailer (not seen elsewhere- his sister is the Mage- does that mean he acquires those abilities later on?).



With all of those questions, they are going to have to drop some Flemeth answers, or this will end up like Lost.

[UberDuber]

Yes! well...maybe, but Bioware would need a back up plan if you didn't do the Dark ritual. (Grrr damn not a canon)



Flemeth is the only reason so far I'm slightly interested in DA2, and that is so sad! I loved Origins too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There will be no DA3 after the epic fail called DA2!

The end is near.

The Maker never was real either.

[AlexXIV]

UberDuber wrote...

Yes! well...maybe, but Bioware would need a back up plan if you didn't do the Dark ritual. (Grrr damn not a canon)

Flemeth is the only reason so far I'm slightly interested in DA2, and that is so sad! I loved Origins too.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There will be no DA3 after the epic fail called DA2!
The end is near.
The Maker never was real either.

They could make the DR canon tbh since with the expansions and dlcs most people who would originally have done the ultimate sacrifice changed their minds. Like me. I can't stand the thought of some orlesian pansy to save vigil keep if the original warden can do it aswell. And witch hunt pretty much killed the idea for me that morrigan is really evil, so there is nothing wrong with doing her ritual, Imho.

[ShrinkingFish]

UberDuber wrote...

Yes! well...maybe, but Bioware would need a back up plan if you didn't do the Dark ritual. (Grrr damn not a canon)

Flemeth is the only reason so far I'm slightly interested in DA2, and that is so sad! I loved Origins too.

Keep in mind that if you deny Morrigan the Dark Ritual but still confront her in Witch Hunt she expresses anger at your for denying her but also says that despite this her plans are going through anyways.

Apparently she found a way around the Ritual to reach the same results regardless of if you performed it. Smart girl, not putting all her eggs in the Warden's basket. Apparently the Ritual just made things easier for her, but wasn't necessary.