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The most convoluted Reaper theory ever.


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#101
Dem_B

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Star at the end of its existence, explodes the supernova. After that formed a black hole. When the realties this fate befall most of the stars in the galaxy and to exist in this chaos would be impossible.

Earlier, I published a links about - "event horizon" - "boundary" of a black hole. Passing through a supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy and breaking "event horizon" from the end, we'll move to an alternate beginning, alternative galaxy is approximately equal to that from which we traveled, an alternate dimension, an alternative time line. It's not quite time travel, we are transported not in a same the galaxy, but is approximately equal to it.

If you watched Star Trek director JJ Abrams. And someone thought that it was possible in the story of Star Trek? Almost the same, but more scale.

You do not need to understand to use the Mass Relay, how is moving through the galaxy from one to another relay. You can even not Know, what is the dark matter, dark energy, you do not know about the gyroscope. That's already there exist in Mass Effect. Why not nominate this theory?

Remember the words of Sovereign: "Each of us is a nation" and the words of Harbinger: "That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."
This means that they pick worthy, to become Reapers and continue the cycle.

Mass Effect 3 will not be transformed into a simple slaughter, must be some sort of revelation.
Just imagine, it completely reverses the idea of the Reapers. Maybe even take their point of view. Think!

Modifié par Dem_B, 21 septembre 2010 - 06:10 .


#102
zakahir

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mattahraw wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Take out the time travel, and this could actually work.


Yeah I know, and I'm usually completely against physics breaking stuff. But this is soooooo awesome.

It's like some of those crazy episodes of Dr. Who.


You know that the whole Mass Effect franchise is fundamentally built around "physics breaking stuff" like FTL travel, right?

If FTL travel is possible, then technically so is time travel, because time and space aren't seperate.

the way they explain FTL travel, is plausible
in theoritical physics, with using dark matter to cause a wave behind
you.  it's something the hawking has actually talked about before.

actually time travel do an extent is plausible using red shifts and blue shifts.  The faster you go the slower time is for you, so if you actually hit a certain speed, you could potentionally fly for one day, and yet it be 10 years outside.

#103
Dem_B

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zakahir wrote...
actually time travel do an extent is plausible using red shifts and blue shifts.  The faster you go the slower time is for you, so if you actually hit a certain speed, you could potentionally fly for one day, and yet it be 10 years outside. 


Do not attempt to explain the movement in time by simply increasing the speed. You do not understand read what I write, see the links.

You will not be able to move in the opposite direction simply by increasing the speed of movement.
Ie I want to say, to move the Reapers should go through a supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy.

Read

"Horizon Event" 
www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25430/

"Universe within". 
www.universetoday.com/62173/is-our-universe-inside-another-larger-universe/
newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/13995.html 

This theoretically explains the move.

Slidell505 where are you?

Modifié par Dem_B, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:39 .


#104
tenshi_no_hone

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@zakahir: I explained why that wouldn't work in an earlier post - increasing speed could cause your subjective time to move backwards if you travel at the speed of light, but the universe around you wouldn't start moving backwards.

@Dem_B: Could you try explaining instead of posting links, it's just that the whole black hole/white hole thing isn't widely accepted, and even if it were, how exactly can Reapers cross the event horizon intact? That just brings us back to "The mass effect is magic" thing that gives guns infinite ammo, generates artificial gravity, enable faster than light travel and gives people force powers. It's a good plot device but it is still just that.

Reapers cannot be benevolent to the point where cooperation is possible - they save the 'worthy' according to that model. This means that in ME2 Shepherd killed the abducted colonists. To work with the Reapers you have to want to make your species into a big squid monster in a horrific way, and to embrace the destruction and enslavement of all unworthy species like the Protheans. That decision is more than just Renegade!

Modifié par tenshi_no_hone, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:00 .


#105
Dem_B

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Modern physics allows the existence of so-called wormholes.

Two locations, which connects the wormholes, do not have to relate to one space-time continuum, reality, dimension.

The known laws of nature does not indicate a definite direction. If we imagine to reverse the time, all the formulas and calculations of the classical and quantum mechanics, electrodynamics and relativity theory will continue to be respected.

This possibility considered in a recent paper, an American physicist Nikodem Poplawski.

Poplawski drew attention to the well-known fact that modern physics does not distinguish the direction of flow of time.

Do you understand the journey across the galaxy with the help of Mass Relay? This exact same thing, but in a different, larger scale.

As a Mass Relay to connecting different points of the galaxy, if move through horizon events - the boundary of a black hole, we find ourselves in a different reality. Of the dying galaxy, we find ourselves in the its alternative beginning.

Many people believe that the Reapers do not make sense in the destruction of organic life, it's a sport.

This should not be so! It's a shame!

The theory that the Reapers save the worthy, the totally reverses our understanding of them.

I would be interested play it even if I know what it is true.

But if the explanation is simple and banal, I will take my time and money spent in the shuffle.
Only because of interest in the Reapers theory I'm playing Mass Effect and i do not want to be disappointed in the game!

#106
Dem_B

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tenshi_no_hone wrote...
Reapers cannot be benevolent to the point where cooperation is possible - they save the 'worthy' according to that model. This means that in ME2 Shepherd killed the abducted colonists. To work with the Reapers you have to want to make your species into a big squid monster in a horrific way, and to embrace the destruction and enslavement of all unworthy species like the Protheans. That decision is more than just Renegade!


All of us will die, our Sun explodes the supernova, our Planet Earth will perish, when realties will grow old and die most of the stars of the galaxy perish our galaxy. And nothing will be left after us.

Reapers are choosing for us, we have no choice, agree whether to volunteer someone for that? Based on this theory, Reapers have seen the death of his galaxy and can not just their own. They know that this is not inevitably we not, we will never accept this decision.

And for that I respect this theory, to take such a seemingly terrible decision is just not possible.

Modifié par Dem_B, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:49 .


#107
PD ORTA

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Where did this theory come from, and what in the ME universe, game, book or otherwise supports it?

#108
tenshi_no_hone

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@Dem_B: What I mean is how do the Reapers survive the process of crossing the event horizon - spaghettification just for starters - they'd be crushed into a singularity where the laws of physics no longer apply!

#109
Dem_B

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PD ORTA wrote...

Where did this theory come from, and what in the ME universe, game, book or otherwise supports it?


My Messages author did not comment, I do not know how he came up with this theory.

For myself understood the basic and as possible.

Proto - Reapers were organic beings, but in their development process They understand that can not exist as an organic and embodied itself in the form of hybrid - the mechanics and organics.
Their galaxy - our alternative. They saw her death, all the stars have died, but they to escaped - crossing the event horizon - the boundary supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy.

I posted links to real scientific assumptions and theories explanation of this, it is not just crazy theory.

Then they see that such fate awaits each galaxy (Remember investigation Tali about fast aging of the star?) and decide to keep, even if such a rigid way, the worthy races. Do you understand?

#110
Dem_B

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tenshi_no_hone wrote...

@Dem_B: What I mean is how do the Reapers survive the process of crossing the event horizon - spaghettification just for starters - they'd be crushed into a singularity where the laws of physics no longer apply!


They built a station in the center of the galaxy, why can not they pass through a supermassive black hole in center of the galaxy?

#111
PhoenixBlacke

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How about this theory. In Me1 they say that keepers were possibly the first species the reapers destroyed and left a few. How about the "keepers" were the ones that built the mass relays, and they founrd out their survival was lingering, maybe they got some kind of genetic cancer or god knows what. So they made some machine to harvest themselves into flying living machines ie what we call Reapers. Leaving some of their own behind in the Citadel to keep it going for their return, staying alive as machines long enough to get enough resources for whatever they have planned, rather that's finding God or a certain galaxy or whatever. What is known though, Sovereign says in Me1 that they are forever and our short lived species, any of us can't comprehend what they want. Maybe they made themselves something they don't like, maybe they want death? Or another chance to live in a body again, instead of machines. Whatever it is, I do believe, as well as most of everyone else I'm sure, it has something to do with those little Keepers. Btw who else here thinks the Illusive Man reported to the Collectors where the normandy is, just so he can bring Shepard back and kinda "own" him?

#112
tenshi_no_hone

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Then why kill the Protheans before they had to? Maybe they could have come up with an alternative in the time they had left. Why keep only some races? And if that is their motivation, they cannot be seen as good! They kill and enslave most races they encounter - interesting motivation to be sure, but not a source of redemption for their race in my eyes!

#113
PD ORTA

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Dem_B wrote...

PD ORTA wrote...

Where did this theory come from, and what in the ME universe, game, book or otherwise supports it?


My Messages author did not comment, I do not know how he came up with this theory.

For myself understood the basic and as possible.

Proto - Reapers were organic beings, but in their development process They understand that can not exist as an organic and embodied itself in the form of hybrid - the mechanics and organics.
Their galaxy - our alternative. They saw her death, all the stars have died, but they to escaped - crossing the event horizon - the boundary supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy.

I posted links to real scientific assumptions and theories explanation of this, it is not just crazy theory.

Then they see that such fate awaits each galaxy (Remember investigation Tali about fast aging of the star?) and decide to keep, even if such a rigid way, the worthy races. Do you understand?

Yes I gathered that the dark matter effect on stars came from Tali's mission. It's the time travel/alternate universe part that I've never seen in a ME game. As well as the Reapers motivation to solve that problem. And as I only play the games, I'm wondering if it's been mentioned somewhere else to support this theory?

#114
Dem_B

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Explanation: The keepers creators of the Reapers have long occurred to me. I wrote about it previously in my first post.

Modifié par Dem_B, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:07 .


#115
Dem_B

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PD ORTA wrote...

Yes I gathered that the dark matter effect on stars came from Tali's mission. It's the time travel/alternate universe part that I've never seen in a ME game. As well as the Reapers motivation to solve that problem. And as I only play the games, I'm wondering if it's been mentioned somewhere else to support this theory?


I do not read books about Mass Effect and is not going to read, just my thoughts based on the reading scientific papers and their possible inclusion in this theory.

If you watched Star Trek director JJ Abrams. And someone thought that it was possible in the story of Star Trek?

We are now obtain confirmation, even comment from BioWare we not get. 
I just hope that something of this theory will be in ME3.

I'm trying justify this theory in terms of existing scientific theories, published in major science - Popular journals.

Modifié par Dem_B, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:33 .


#116
Voidlight

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Just a note - dark matter is not the same thing as dark energy. Because there is more dark energy in the universe than normal matter and dark matter, expansion will carry on forever and the stars will eventually fade out in a few trillion years. To put that in perspective - one trillion years is equal to twenty million Reaper cycles. The last black holes will evaporate in 10^100 years (that's 1 with a hundred zeroes after it). This "heat death" is inevitable.

That's the scale we're talking about here. If the Reapers can't "save" the universe in even a fraction of that time, they're pretty useless at science and should let humans do it, because we have gone from medieval flat-earthers to space-faring nuclear fusion experts in the space of a few hundred years.

Personally I think the most logical and plausible theory is the simplest one - the Reapers evolved a few billion years ago, assimilated other races to "ascend" them and survive, and had to limit their consumption to sustain themselves. A farmer gets more food by cultivating crops and managing livestock than the uncontrollable swarm of locusts gets by eating everything in its path. The dark energy rumours could be anything from extremely powerful lifeforms to some dark energy superweapon used by the Reapers.

Modifié par Voidlight, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:03 .


#117
xbeton0L

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Dem_B wrote...

zakahir wrote...
actually time travel do an extent is plausible using red shifts and blue shifts.  The faster you go the slower time is for you, so if you actually hit a certain speed, you could potentionally fly for one day, and yet it be 10 years outside. 


Do not attempt to explain the movement in time by simply increasing the speed. You do not understand read what I write, see the links.

You will not be able to move in the opposite direction simply by increasing the speed of movement.
Ie I want to say, to move the Reapers should go through a supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy.

Read

"Horizon Event" 
www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25430/

"Universe within". 
www.universetoday.com/62173/is-our-universe-inside-another-larger-universe/
newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/13995.html 

This theoretically explains the move.

Slidell505 where are you?

they say at the "event horizon" time slows near infinity, but does not stop. does this mean there is a quantum state for time also?

this goes in hand with the theory, as speed increases does mass proportionally also increase. thus faster speed travel is the equivalent of raising one's own mass. 

proof. an experiment done with synchronized atomic clocks on earth and in space, the study found that atomic clocks on earth ticked slower than the ones in space (or, in vice-versa, the clocks in space ticked faster) when they fell out-of-sync.

thus, Earth is prolonging our lives by a fraction of time. So to say the same, if people lived on Jupiter, they may live a fraction longer than people on Earth because their cumulative mass is greater.

so technically, within a singularity, mass is so great that time flow slows near infinity. and to approach the speed of light, not "going" the speed of light, mass would increase to infinity - an "event horizon".

so logically thinking this through, to stop time would mean mass reaches a quantum state beyond the even horizon - and to travel "at" light speed would mean that time has stopped for you, and infinitely increased around you. (thus, does light "not" travel at all? then why do we perceive a time differentiation? perhaps it travels "just before" the event horizon, not "at" or beyond it.)

therefore technically, to achieve FTL you must be able to produce and sustain a mass effect field which surpasses the "event horizon" - beyond what would stop time in a singularity, and enough to reverse it - which theoretically is not possible. i think.

so yet i discover one more gripe. the asari. and FTL. however, i approve of FTL in ME. and asari characters are cool. their technicalities, i don't care so much.

however, how I got on FTL is beyond me.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:08 .


#118
tenshi_no_hone

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though of curse to the person living on Jupiter, they experience no difference in subjective time to one in space. It's only apparent when they are compared directly

#119
xbeton0L

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tenshi_no_hone wrote...

though of curse to the person living on Jupiter, they experience no difference in subjective time to one in space. It's only apparent when they are compared directly

of course. however it's closer to actually experiencing the effects of greater magnitudes of speed. say for instance, people could live on the stars, due to some advanced breakthrough on space colony technology. well, one could make sense from this that the closer one is to a gravity-well/slope (the center of a mass), the more time is dilated/slowed. and to connect this with speed, an object traveling incredibly fast relative to another object would in a sense create it's own gravity well. thus, defining its increased relative mass and time distortion.

however, we only know what we can observe. the actual mysteries of time dilation versus gravity/mass [effect] are still not understood. because then, how can one accurately determine "time" relative to oneself? (what "time" do you exist?) one method would be an observation of material surrounding yourself, say star dating/tracking, to keep a record of how time has changed around you. it's no new mystery, think of this next time you need to know what time it is and look at a clock on the wall. 

and also, with this said, the gravity well of our galaxy still has an effect on us. say a space team was able to venture out beyond our galaxy towards a new galaxy (Andromeda) - halfway between the two galaxy, the effects of gravity relative to the ship|Milky Way and ship|Andromeda would be at their lowest. also meaning that time dilation has been reduced considerably to when the ship was inside the galaxy. to think of it this way, say a person still in the Milky way watching them leave and waiting for them to return - time still flows slower for him than they, so say the ship turns around halfway and comes back, time may have increased considerably for them - no accurate estimate on how time would affect them, but it would be for the increase - whereas the person who stayed back hadn't changed much at all.

in a material sense, matter that exits the galaxy never to return enters a sort of time warp and fizzles out. or stays the same if there are no physical processes affecting the material, so to exclude planets and stars. so if it were a star exiting our galaxy, it would be in danger of fizzling out by magnitudes of faster time due to the lack of a gravity well (apart from its own).

some interesting stuff. yes?

Modifié par xbeton0L, 22 septembre 2010 - 04:10 .


#120
Dem_B

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Voidlight wrote...

That's the scale we're talking about here. If the Reapers can't "save" the universe in even a fraction of that time, they're pretty useless at science and should let humans do it, because we have gone from medieval flat-earthers to space-faring nuclear fusion experts in the space of a few hundred years.

Personally I think the most logical and plausible theory is the simplest one - the Reapers evolved a few billion years ago, assimilated other races to "ascend" them and survive, and had to limit their consumption to sustain themselves.


First. I would not so praise the people, just lucky on Mars. Reapers are not trying to save the galaxy from death, they trying to save a worthy races. I do see it so.

Secondly. Where in your theory unexpected moment, where the revelation? After this explanation I have a feeling: "That's all, and so?" not impressive, no offense OK.

As if the author himself gave up this story, he not comment.

Modifié par Dem_B, 22 septembre 2010 - 01:21 .


#121
Eledran

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That seems extremely far fetched...

For one, I don't see how time travel really fits into the ME universe, it has never been mentioned before and I hope it is kept locked far far away.

Secondly, the whole 'the Reapers need organic species to harvest resources' stuff is just not logical.

Who can harvest faster?
1) Organics who require millenia to even develop efficient means of harvesting and production, let alone space travel.

2) Super intelligent, nearly indestructible machines who can travel freely throughout the known universe and beyond.

That and the simple fact that we don't even know for sure if the Reapers really *take* any raw resources, save to destroy any trace of former civilisations.


Personally, I think the Reapers 'reap' because of some need for more ships / offspring, that much is clear; what they need those for is unknown, but they sure don't need organics gathering stuff for them.

#122
FouCapitan

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I have my own theory, copy pasted from another thread.

You see, eons ago, there existed a race that spanned the galaxy. Before the Protheans, and before the dozens to hundreds of galaxy spanning races before them. This race, far advanced beyond anything we know, was afraid. They had spent so long, and worked so hard to achieve their place in the universe, but they knew it would not be eternal.

So they turned to machinery, shedding their mortal shells to live on forever. Bodies would no longer age, the mind could be backed up and preserved forever, their legacy, would never end. In this, however, they were still not perfect. A few individuals wished to continue life in their pure organic form, to live and die as they always have. The downside of overpopulation due to a high percentage of immortal individuals became almost immediately apparent. The leaders of this civilization then game to a conclusion.

A superstructure, far beyond any former synthetic body, was proposed. With it, all the nations of their great civilization could be preserved. Volunteers from all accross the galaxy had their bodies processed down to join the collective conciousness that would, eons later become known as the first of the Reapers.

As the Reapers were completed, those that remained grew fearful and mistrustful of these great beings. Scientists and philosophers that stayed in the organic state reached a conclusion that their synthetic bretheren would turn on them, claiming their decision to remain organic, to live and die as evolution dictated, was a waste of the valuable resource their collective conciousness could provide.

Their fears secured that outcome, as war erupted between the reapers and the organics. Irrelevant of who struck the first blow, both sides suffered heavy losses throughout, until the reapers devoloped methods of control to use on their organic opponents. The first instances of indoctrination were quite easy, since the Reapers understood just how the organic minds of their enemies functioned. Nanomachines invaded select hosts, and were released as sleeper agents into the armies of the organics. Following which, the defeated army was forcefully processed down into reaper shells themselves, connecting directly into the shared conciousness of those they called enemies and coming to a shared conclusion.

With the entirety of their original species turned, the galaxy was still. Thousands of years the reapers spent, alone with their shared thoughts, contemplating the reason and outcome of the long war they had just fought. The conclusion came, that all organic life had failed, and their immortalization as a collective of machines was a fortunate exception to the never ending failure of evolution.

As new species' evolved and spread into the reaches of space, the reapers made the final alterations to the former center of their civilization, the Citadel, sending their forms off to Dark Space, while one remained behind. They would observe civilization, wait for its apex, then invite them to join them in eternity, in perfection. They would secure a valid future for life in their galaxy, whether it wanted it or not.

Modifié par FouCapitan, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:42 .


#123
xbeton0L

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yeah, they are preserving their life this way. but, aren't they just like the geth now? one collective conscience? one collective consensus?

of course, versus their organic counterparts is original indeed. however, as with any misuse of power, their decision to wipe out their evolved organic form into a less perfected/complete form is taboo. that's like our government finds a way to preserve the human mind inside a computer, makes artificial people, then forces everyone to become it. you wouldn't just accept it, at least I'd ask why this is happening. why must I become a machine. yet the media and news channels will say it's ok, spreading the word about "immortality" - then whammo! goodbye humanity. however our world leaders probably wouldn't do this to themselves. someone has to stay in control.

and, matter of fact, thinking in a sense of practical application - the leaders of the organic Reapers, or at least it's "royal" bloodline, would still exist to preserve *some* aspect of their culture and nature. too add, by the organic remnants of the Reapers being confined to one collective consciousness they can also be controlled via peripheral, whether by hypnotism or other psychological stimulation. or by assuming direct control.

it's an interesting perspective. however I don't think this is what the Reapers have become. and if this, they in actuality are something more. as you stated - inviting cultures of life to "join them in eternity". yeah, just so they can add variants to their collective conscious supercomputer. a load of bullsh**.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 22 septembre 2010 - 09:05 .


#124
Chuvvy

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Dem_B wrote...

zakahir wrote...
actually time travel do an extent is plausible using red shifts and blue shifts.  The faster you go the slower time is for you, so if you actually hit a certain speed, you could potentionally fly for one day, and yet it be 10 years outside. 


Do not attempt to explain the movement in time by simply increasing the speed. You do not understand read what I write, see the links.

You will not be able to move in the opposite direction simply by increasing the speed of movement.
Ie I want to say, to move the Reapers should go through a supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy.

Read

"Horizon Event" 
www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25430/

"Universe within". 
www.universetoday.com/62173/is-our-universe-inside-another-larger-universe/
newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/13995.html 

This theoretically explains the move.

Slidell505 where are you?


Motherboard fried. It's kind of a long story. I'm using that as an excuse to completely rebuild my computer. On a friends currently.

#125
TheSeventhJedi

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Huh. I like it. What I don't want to see is that the reapers are in the right, and that the Mass Relays are the reason behind the energy buildup, and they pretty much have to destroy them to keep the galaxy intact.