204 réponses à ce sujet

[Voidlight]

Dem_B wrote...

First. I would not so praise the people, just lucky on Mars. Reapers are not trying to save the galaxy from death, they trying to save a worthy races. I do see it so.

Secondly. Where in your theory unexpected moment, where the revelation? After this explanation I have a feeling: "That's all, and so?" not impressive, no offense OK.

As if the author himself gave up this story, he not comment.

I was mostly talking about real life humans, because whether we find alien relics on Mars or not, what we've accomplished alone is extremely impressive. Merely a few hundred years ago we thought the Earth was flat and the cosmos revolved around it. Look how far we've come - nuclear fusion reactors, probes on Titan, men on the Moon, and we're getting close to the holy grail of quantum gravity. All in an asari lifetime.

Anyway the simple Reaper theory I described is just a summary, which can easily be expanded on. I just won't commit to any far out revelation theories because all bets are off in that department. I bet the big reveal will be completely different to any fan theory - the Reapers could end up being mice in giant exoskeletons who built Earth to figure out what the question is when the answer is 42.

[StarcloudSWG]

Actually, the dispute *wasn't* whether the Earth was flat. Even the ancient Greeks knew, through observation, that the Earth was round. The dispute was about the *size* of the earth. Columbus was and still is horribly wrong; he thought the size of the earth was about sixty percent of what it really is.

[Dem_B]

Some thoughts in support of the theory:

To form a planet fit for life, requires special conditions, almost a miracle.
Need one more miracle, for for the appearance of life on this planet.
This primitive life should evolve over millions of years.

Then this life must learn, how to divide one number by another.
Then this life must reach the level of technology capable to spacewalk.
Then, these technologies must reach a level at which it is possible to travel beyond the speed of light.
And only after that can cover the entire galaxy, just imagine an entire galaxy from its very edge to the center, a network of Mass Relay.

Do you think it will happen in a short time?

During this time, the galaxy will come to its finale, most of the stars will grow old.

What is important for organic life? You know?

Favorable conditions for the existence of, a favorable climate. Their Galaxy is old, the not conditions there.

What's left to do? Look for another galaxy, but when the galaxy to grow old, nearest galaxies will be beyond the reach of, even for FLT.

And what conclusion? 

Reapers are hybrids organic - machine, because they had no other way, or perish in the dying galaxy, or try to survive - such a way.

Voidlight wrote...
I just won't commit to any far out revelation theories because all bets are off in that department. I bet the big reveal will be completely different to any fan theory. 

I cite only theoretically possible arguments and logical conclusions, not just comments fan.

I only want one thing - not a shameful explaining reason of Reapers, but the revelation.

What should have been confirmation that the Reapers are not those whom we know them?

Virgil on Ilos must had to say - Protheans learned that the Reapers are not of our time?

Sovereign must had to say that he knows everything that had gone before and will happen then?

Harbinger must had to say that saw the death of their galaxy and trying to save people from imminent death?

There is indirect for confirmation:
Impossible to achieve such progress during the existence of galaxies and then wait for the others every 50 000 years.

Investigation Tali about fast aging of the star.

Reapers - are hybrids organic - machine.

Sovereign: "Each of us is a nation"
Harbinger: "That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction.

All of this grain, but may serve as indirect confirmation.

Modifié par Dem_B, 23 septembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[Dem_B]

There are several groups:

Those for whom Mass Effect - the best, in any case.

Those who do not understand what was happening.
There are also such.

Those who do not ponder over what is happening in the game, just shoot and get the achievement.

Those whom do not care, to a in Mass Effect was something amazing that will change our perception.
Easier for them to simply destroy the "terrible devils - machines." And once again say: "I saved the galaxy" and all lived happily ever after.
Play in Mass Effect as if chew chewing gum.

The last, those Who can come up with something special, and prove the possibility to create it's.
Their is very few.

Earlier, I wondered, but the arguments this theory, has given most of the answers, and to me it seem to be promising.

In my Country, in a gaming journal, after the release of Mass Effect 1, were the words:

"Mass Effect is a book you can read dozens of ways, the movie in which you to decide what will be in the next scene, a game that make shifting the video game industry to new levels.

So: I want to read is not easy book, and watching no simple filmets (movie) with a banal storyline.
After reading a easy book, and after watching a simple movie, will be sensation: "That's all, and let" sensation emptiness.

After reading a good book, and after watching a good movie, will be sensation, "Yes, it was great, very sorry that this incredible story is over"

Modifié par Dem_B, 24 septembre 2010 - 08:27 .

[lost lupus]

i like to think that whoever created the reapers just gave them no base drive's

they just towed them out to dark space and switched them on
and so the reapers believe they "have know begining" as far as they are aware they all just bumped into each other out in dark space

so they sat around and watched the milky way (nearset galaxy to them) form and eventually intelligent organic life appered so the reapers stopped by to say gidday

but the race was more interested in finding out who made them
of course the reapers got mighty pissed off at the idea that organic life must have made them as to a reaper organic life has existed for the blink of an eye
when shown that synthetic life does not just exist it has to be made the reapers collectively went nut's

this whole reaper's ****ing up the milkyway
is just more or less reality tele for a race of immortals living in a galaxy far far away

ME3 ends with shepard getting in contact with the producers and being talked through how to flip the reset switch on the "master" reaper by tech's

Modifié par lost lupus, 24 septembre 2010 - 08:47 .

[Dem_B]

No need to turn this thread into a farce, fun story, I smiled. 

[Dem_B]

Mass Effect was initially conceived as a trilogy. And that means there is a clear development plan for the main storyline. Are taken views  into account on the development of the main story line, can we influence this? 

Do you think someone of BioWare saw that we are discussing? Whether they consider - it's heresy? Or they see something worthwhile on this? Or the big boss does not even pay attention to the opinion players about the main plot.

I hope they see, listen. I think in this theory there is good arguments, I hope that our discussion will not be a waste of time.  And you?

[Dem_B]

And all this will end our discussion? No more ideas, no more comments?
What about my posts on this page?

Would be nice, if we were close to the truth and everyone will think: "Yes, I knew it" or vice versa, all will not be so impressive and everyone who was interested in this theory will be thinking: "These guys have come up with better."

Modifié par Dem_B, 25 septembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[Purge the heathens]

I like the idea that FouCapitan posted on page five, the part about the Reapers' motivations. Maybe they think that "lesser species" aren't fit to direct their own development and should have the Reapers' perfection forced onto them, less like "We're doing this only for you, out of benevolent reasons" and more like " You're too dumb for your own good and shouldn't be allowed to develop freely". It somehow fits Mass Effect, I think. There's this little theme about achieving things on your own and having them handed to you on a silver platter. And then there's this...

09/01/2010 - Best-Selling E-Book Discusses the Downside of First Contact

“The new e-book "First Contact: Who Needs It?" by author Kurt Riven
has zoomed to the top of this week's best-seller list. In the book, the
counterculture icon argues that contact between extraterrestrial species
is inherently a bad idea. Riven writes, "Aside from the inevitable
wars, jingoism, and disease that always follow first contact, there's a
more insidious problem: the homogenization of culture, of thought, of
ideas themselves. As soon as I see how your ship works, I don't need to
figure it out myself. I'll copy yours and whatever hope we had for
something new evaporates. Maybe mine's a different shape, but so what?
The same problem exists on a galactic scale, where all major species are
busy duplicating each other's ideas. It would have been better if they
never met." Ironically, in light of the book's success, many copycat
books are already popping up across the extranet.”

The groundskeeper says the universe loves diversity. The Reapers despise it. Just look at what the news article says about the ships. The Reapers all look like cuttlefish, although they've consumed many different and unique species throughout history. Likewise, they might not be all that unique on the inside. Maybe once a new Reaper is completed, all other Reapers adapt its best traits themselves. Every extinction brings a little upgrade for their entire species.

EDIT: That way, you could interpret indoctrination not as mind control, but as a way of saving people the time it takes to get the "right ideas".

Modifié par Purge the heathens, 26 septembre 2010 - 11:59 .

[Dem_B]

Purge the heathens wrote...
The new e-book "First Contact: Who Needs It?" by author Kurt Riven.
Heard about it.

That way, you could interpret indoctrination not as mind control, but as a way of saving people the time it takes to get the "right ideas".

Interesting thought.

As if we know that Repears - villains. And then bam, and they tell us why they do it, and not a trivial theory, "You foolish people, and we a intelligent machines, but this theory.
It would be like if you all life believed that the earth is flat, but enlightened people have proved that the Earth - A ball, it's will be revelation for you.

Matrix. Reloading. Conversation Neo and the Architect, if you remember.
Architect offers Neo make one's choice: the men and women to continue the human race, as did all the predecessors of Neo, they took this choice, because the cycle of destruction the repeated.
Also in the Matrix of people used as batteries.
All of this has been.

I mean, machines must destroy people's, because they see what people nothing bring, just chaos, and machines must establish order.

We are 100 times already saw it.

But this idea with my additions, gives a completely different view.
Who can say that has already seen something similar?

Modifié par Dem_B, 29 septembre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Dem_B]

Slidell505 where are your comments?
You may correct the plan on the first page, in accordance with the motives Reapears and how they could to move into alternative galaxy, which I suggest?

[Dem_B]

This Quasars - the oldest and fast-growing black holes.


This article describes the communication theory of quasars and cosmic strings - giant folds of space-time.
www.insidescience.org/research/cracks_in_the_universe

Modifié par Dem_B, 19 octobre 2010 - 08:07 .

[Dem_B]

Slidell505, I was wondering, how you came up with this theory? What prompted you to these thoughts?



You still important this?

[Jamin101]

dem_b your killing the thread, take it down a notch, let others post

[Dem_B]

Jamin101 wrote...

dem_b your killing the thread, take it down a notch, let others post

Looks like author abandoned this thread. I supported this theme to show that what I expect from Mass Effect 3, what I do not want in ME3.

I saw that as the majority did not interested that to Reapers had a decent motives, all need more weapons and armor, do not have to think and to seek an explanation - quite explicitly - Reapers - the villains in the end we will destroy the villains.

I tried to show - all can not be so simple and obvious as it seems at first glance, but it seems no one is not interested. Most here were not interested that to motives of Reapers changed our perception of them.

Maybe, me waiting for a big disappointment.
Play only in the good.

[Pacifien]

xAlch3mIstx wrote...
 there is already a post about this

Actually, as this thread predates the other one, it means the other thread gets locked.

[Fortlowe]

I always thought that Soveriegn was telling it like it was. The Reapers came first. I don't think it is outside the realm of possiblity that what we think of as machines could have evolved before cellular life. There is no discernable difference between a virus and the current prototypical designs for nano machines (aside from the drive to reproduce that is). Silicon based lifeforms would likely look very much like machines.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 19 octobre 2010 - 09:28 .

[Saremei]

Fortlowe wrote...

I always thought that Soveriegn was telling it like it was. The Reapers came first. I don't think it is outside the realm of possiblity that what we think of as machines could have evolved before cellular life. There is no discernable difference between a virus and the current prototypical designs for nano machines (aside from the drive to reproduce that is). Silicon based lifeforms would likely look very much like machines.

Reapers are more than just another type of life form, they are built, not born.  The chances of silicon based life coming into existence are slim enough.  Don't need to add on the evolution of AI programs due to sheer random chance tossing all probability into the toilet.  While sentient AI could possibly come into existence with the help of organic life, machines are just too inefficient to come about on their own. 

[Fortlowe]

Saremei wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

I always thought that Soveriegn was telling it like it was. The Reapers came first. I don't think it is outside the realm of possiblity that what we think of as machines could have evolved before cellular life. There is no discernable difference between a virus and the current prototypical designs for nano machines (aside from the drive to reproduce that is). Silicon based lifeforms would likely look very much like machines.

Reapers are more than just another type of life form, they are built, not born.  The chances of silicon based life coming into existence are slim enough.  Don't need to add on the evolution of AI programs due to sheer random chance tossing all probability into the toilet.  While sentient AI could possibly come into existence with the help of organic life, machines are just too inefficient to come about on their own. 

I agree, the rise of sililcon based life is rather slim, but I think carbon based life is even more unlikely, and we know that exists. As far as Reapers being built, rather than born, I think you are referencing the events at the end of ME:2. Those events reinforce my belief that the Reapers came first.  It's as though cellular life was something the Reapers have decided to use as a commodity. A commodity that was discovered and is being exploited. Think of the relationship Asari have with other races. They don't need other races to procreate, but it appears to have the benefit of randomizing their DNA which deepens their genetic pool and accelerates their eveolution as a species. Perhaps the Reapers use biologicals for the same purpose on a grander scale.

Perhaps, the Reapers have a motive that they view as benevolent. What we see in the end of ME:2 may be what the Reapers view as an attempt to save life from extinction. Harbinger did allude to just that. The Reapers are immortal and ancient. They have witnessed the rise of cellular life. Perhaps, more than once, they have seen cellular life die off as well, and not from their own doing. Maybe some cosmic event happens every fifty thousand years that wipes the galactic slate clean, and they were developed enough escape it but no other life form ever does. So they were watched this cycle over and over again for millions of years and decided finally it was time to intervene. Thus the reaping began.

That or Burt Reynolds made them....

Modifié par Fortlowe, 22 octobre 2010 - 12:58 .

[belwin]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Take out the time travel, and this could actually work.

looking at the end of the thread and seeing the derail train starting,

i'd like to point out that biotics can create sigularities, which are essentiaslly small black holes.
black holes cut into the fabric of time and space, after achieving a certain density.

so technically, time travel is possible if biotics are running around bending the spacetime continuum?

[SimonTheFrog]

no no no no no timetravel!!!

Its fun in comedies or Donnie Darko but nowhere else.

The theory in the op could very well work in one timeline. All you need are very slow processes and a clever enough species to understand them and the willing to do something about it, even if the results are still far away. And once you made yourself eternal you surely see things differently that might kill you later after all.
So, the theory would be like that: proto-reapers are clever and build all that stuff like relays and citadel. Then they discover how to become immortal by fusing with mechanical part. The first star starts to die. They understand that this is a problem and find out that only several big heaps of eezo can fix this. They plant the seed of creatures that will look out for eezo and collect it voluntarily. But they must kill them before they start to make trouble on their own. Once they collected all eezo and some goo they plant a new seed.

There are some flaws, though:
- the dark matter creature sounds kinda silly but any other cause will do.
- why not build harvesters like any other (with good pathfinding of course).
- all the stuff that sovereign and harbinger say doesn't make sense, "we" won't be salvaged, only eaten. After all that talking i kinda hope for a twist.

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 22 octobre 2010 - 02:09 .

[WuWeiWu]

I disagree with a lot of the things in this thread - namely the time travel (which, if it ever happens, won't be in the fictionalized form it is commonly portrayed in), the J.J. Abrams hate, and the time line of the reapers.

I have yet to play ME2, so I shall keep my thoughts centered on the bombshell Sovereign dropped on Virmire (also: Anon reference? I was pleased).

On Virmire, Sovereign stated that the Reapers are infinite. I took that claim to be honest, as the creation of the Reapers wasn't expressly touched upon in ME1. For the Reapers to be infinite, they would have had to either;

1) Exist as does the Universe.

1b) Exist as does sentience/awareness.


Either of those options work essentially the same, with difference only to be had in the significance of the infinite application to sentience (my preferred route) or to the (not creation) of the Universe (invalidates my later conclusions).


If either 1) or 2) are correct, I do not believe that the Reapers necessarily knew what they were, or even why they 'Reaped'. Everything is based on a cycle, that 50,000 year cycle, but the significance doesn't have to lie within that cycle. 50,000 (Earth) years could be anything, from shakedown time between eradicating sentience in the galaxy to the time it takes the Reapers to throw an end-of-sentience bash.

The significance also does not have to lie within the actual 'reaping', in the same way that I think the significance of the Reapers can be found in their mere existence. For the Reapers to be infinite, they would have to permeate the Universe, and not just the Milky Way Galaxy (unless, for some reason, the Milky Way is unique in that it alone contains sentient life/life at all).

I have intentionally ignored the assistance the Reapers provide the new sentient life forms with, namely the Citadel and Mass Effect Relays, because this assistance is key to my (probably flawed) interpretation. Were the Reapers only to exist as does sentience, some very interesting problems could arise.

1b) Reapers exist (in infinite) as does sentience [exist'].

2) Reapers and Sentience, then, have existed as one.

3) The Universe exists as does existence (not sentience. [The weakest part of my interpretation/argument.])

Without Sentience, Reapers do not exist. Without  Reapers, Sentience does not exist - they are one. What y(our) Shepard cannot possibly understand, according to Sovereign, is the Reapers existence. Sovereign could have had a point. I do not best know how to explain the remainder of the argument within the bounds of reasonable space, it would take an entire novels worth of words to illustrate the complexity of emotions to get to where I need this argument to go - it's convoluted, and explaining infinite in the terms of non-infinite is... difficult.

The key thing is to grasp the particular concept of infinite applied, here. Something that is infinite does not exist so much as it persists - when looking at an 'infinite' time-line, there is no beginning and there is no end. Do not think of it as a line, as that would denote a start point and an end point, but think of it as you would the Universe before the singularity.

For the Reapers to continue to exist, sentience must also continue to exist in a form that allows the existence of the Reapers. For the Reapers to be infinite and tied to Sentience as suggested above, they would have to ensure that sentient life does not change the state of their existence, of their sentience. In a word, transcending sentience. 

For the Reapers to exist, not for the Reapers to continue to exist, evolution would have to be stalled at a certain point - the 50,000 (Earth) year cycle. The Reapers would not have much say in the matter, were my interpretation to be true. For the Reapers to be stopped, assuming the above is at all true, they (the Reapers) would have to, essentially, give up immortality and cease to exist at any point on the galactic time line - or subsume the entirety of sentient life. Perhaps an infinite existence couldn't be as fluid or transient as that, but I'd like to think it would be.

At the end of every 'purge' of sentient life in the galaxy, the Reapers retreat to 'dark space'. The way it's used, dark space could simply be the space between galaxies, beyond the known/actual edge of the universe, or a metaphorical use of the term. My theory would suggest a metaphorical use of the term - perhaps they cease to exist in a manner we would call 'existence', and the bulk of the Reaper fleet is only 'awakened' towards the end of every cycle, I haven't thought that bit out.

Now, Sovereign called himself a vanguard - one of his kind left to herald the end of the next cycle. Were the above inferences to be found true, he would not be just the vanguard for the Reaper invasion(s), he would be the vanguard for sentient life. Without him, sentient life would not arise as it would be tied to the continuence of the Reapers. In that way, the Reapers must destroy sentient life in the galaxy as they must take strides to preserve it.

I may flesh this out a bit better in the future, but these are basicly my thoughts on the subject. Time travel shouldn't be involved at all, it's easy, and the basic idea ofi t usually portrayed in fantasy/sci-fi is awful. J.J. Abrams also did some solid things with Star Trek, but I'm sorry that you liked Star Trek before it was mainstream and all comercialized and stuff. Must have been heartbreaking, seeing that underground phenomena bastardized out to commercial sources, right?

Modifié par WuWeiWu, 22 octobre 2010 - 06:24 .

[belwin]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

no no no no no timetravel!!!

well i wasn't stating my support for it,
i was just pointing out how biotics and eezo seem to support time travel.

if an element (eezo) can make things was less than nothing, than if applied to a black hole to get rid of it's crushing gravity, the black hole would in theory either collapse because the density has become low enough for gravity to deal with with the eezo's help, 

or simply become a rift in time because all you'd have left was a singularity theoretically allowing time travel as you pass by the event horizon.

...but then you have pardoxes and next thing you know you are feeling like you're hanging out with Fry after he kills his Grandfather in Futurama or you are chillin' in Tartus with Dr. Who discussing quantum theory.

All in all, time travel is improbable.

Modifié par belwin, 23 octobre 2010 - 01:24 .