Also, passing an event horizon will probably cause nausea... and kill you.
The most convoluted Reaper theory ever.
Débuté par
Chuvvy
, sept. 16 2010 08:33
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#152
Posté 23 octobre 2010 - 07:05
WuWeiWu
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SimonTheFrog wrote...
Also, passing an event horizon will probably cause nausea... and kill you.
The gravity involved will kill you long before that happens. And when I mean long, I mean approaching infinity long (not to be confused with what I was talking about earlier).
Oh, and 'eezo' doesn't account for time travel. At all. And if it does ever happen, that time travel, it won't be in the way everybody in this thread is making it out to be.
#153
Posté 23 octobre 2010 - 08:20
Cra5y Pineapple
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I absoulutely love this twist! Even the not-exactly-possible time travel! And I knew all that Haelstrom research would become important.
However, there has to be a reason for them to travel back in time apart from avoiding the death of the Galaxy. And a reason for their harvest. How about that element Zero emmits Dark Matter (like Hydrogen fuel cells emmit water) that screws up the stars. Therefore, allowing the Galactic Civilisations to progress too far with the element Zero technology would cause an overdose of Dark Matter in the galaxy causing the stars to expand.
Therefore, the Reapers would actually be preventing the Galaxy from extinction by destroying Galactic civilisations.
As for the "backwards time travel isn't possible" argument, neither is FTL or Teleportation (Mass Relays). At least in the theory time travel is used in a mature way like one of those really dark and serious episodes of Doctor Who (The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords) which brings me to another reason I like this theory; it's dark, horrifying and surreal.
However, there has to be a reason for them to travel back in time apart from avoiding the death of the Galaxy. And a reason for their harvest. How about that element Zero emmits Dark Matter (like Hydrogen fuel cells emmit water) that screws up the stars. Therefore, allowing the Galactic Civilisations to progress too far with the element Zero technology would cause an overdose of Dark Matter in the galaxy causing the stars to expand.
Therefore, the Reapers would actually be preventing the Galaxy from extinction by destroying Galactic civilisations.
As for the "backwards time travel isn't possible" argument, neither is FTL or Teleportation (Mass Relays). At least in the theory time travel is used in a mature way like one of those really dark and serious episodes of Doctor Who (The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords) which brings me to another reason I like this theory; it's dark, horrifying and surreal.
Modifié par Cra5y Pineapple, 23 octobre 2010 - 09:02 .
#154
Posté 24 octobre 2010 - 02:54
belwin
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WuWeiWu wrote...
SimonTheFrog wrote...
Also, passing an event horizon will probably cause nausea... and kill you.
The gravity involved will kill you long before that happens. And when I mean long, I mean approaching infinity long (not to be confused with what I was talking about earlier).
Oh, and 'eezo' doesn't account for time travel. At all. And if it does ever happen, that time travel, it won't be in the way everybody in this thread is making it out to be.
well i was thinking more along the lines of:
eezo = mass reduction
black hole = large density
density = mass x volume
ezzo + black hole = density reduction
lots of eezo = less gravity = no getting squashed?
the whole infinite curve of the event horizon doesn't fit though.
...math, i tell 'ya. not a stong point for me.
Modifié par belwin, 24 octobre 2010 - 02:55 .
#155
Posté 24 octobre 2010 - 03:42
WuWeiWu
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Well, I should have said that black holes have little to do with time travel, at least not in backwards time travel. As you approach the singularity of a black hole, the gravitational involvement essentially slows time down to the point where, were you to retain any sort of coherent thought, you would (probably) not ever actually reach the singularity. Time would get slower and slower, approaching infinity - which means that, while not actually infinite, it might as well be.
I always understood eezo and the mass relays to change gravity, not decrease it - so that a mass relay could both decrease and increase gravity.
If you add enough eezo with the intent to decrease a black holes gravity to a level conducive to the survival of an organic species, you would most likely just end up collapsing the singularity, and thus would no longer have a black hole.
I always understood eezo and the mass relays to change gravity, not decrease it - so that a mass relay could both decrease and increase gravity.
If you add enough eezo with the intent to decrease a black holes gravity to a level conducive to the survival of an organic species, you would most likely just end up collapsing the singularity, and thus would no longer have a black hole.
#156
Posté 24 octobre 2010 - 12:19
belwin
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WuWeiWu wrote...
If you add enough eezo with the intent to decrease a black holes gravity to a level conducive to the survival of an organic species, you would most likely just end up collapsing the singularity, and thus would no longer have a black hole.
ahh, that answers any confusion of mine seeing as that seems like the only other feasable thing for the black hole to do.
thank you sir/ma'am
#157
Posté 24 octobre 2010 - 05:16
azerSheppard
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Ever heard of causuality and time parodoxes? you can't travel in time and kill yourself in the past, because if you did, you never got to travel in time. If it however works, then you would be inside an alternate universe.
The multi-verse theorie is about as scifi as religion, it's based around "we can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either" type of deal.
The multi-verse theorie is about as scifi as religion, it's based around "we can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either" type of deal.
#158
Posté 24 octobre 2010 - 07:32
WuWeiWu
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azer, that adequately describes pretty much every single advanced mathematical theory in modern physics. A good portion of our biggest and most commonly used/cited theories rely on a particle we haven't even discovered yet.
Oh, and time paradoxes? Aren't paradoxes.
Oh, and time paradoxes? Aren't paradoxes.
Modifié par WuWeiWu, 24 octobre 2010 - 07:32 .
#159
Posté 26 octobre 2010 - 11:36
azerSheppard
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WuWeiWu wrote...
azer, that adequately describes pretty much every single advanced mathematical theory in modern physics. A good portion of our biggest and most commonly used/cited theories rely on a particle we haven't even discovered yet.
Oh, and time paradoxes? Aren't paradoxes.
Atleast they can be proved mathematically, when Hawkings stated that a point with infinite density could exist, he actually invented mathematical methods to prove this. Multi-verse theory doesn't even have that. Sure alot of theoretical physics is pure mathematical, but atleast they are based on some logic with backing, whilst multi-verse is still pure imagination
#160
Posté 28 octobre 2010 - 08:38
Dem_B
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I wish that everyone who wrote in this thread, read my comments. I presented the most explanation and proof.
The main in this theory:.
- Nobody don't built the Reapers, like warships or AI They were living creatures, but the death of the majority of stars in the galaxy led them to become those who we know as the Reapers.
- They were organic beings. Organic life develops for great time and the fact of the appearance of such a life is a miracle.
- To achieve the level of technology and embrace the entire galaxy from the edge to the center also requires a massive amount of time.
- Do not travel in time, but in the alternative space-time.
And this is the most controversial statement. Most do not take such a turn. But without that first 3 arguments are refuted, but it is unacceptable because:
1) From ME2 we know that the Reapers are not just machines. For confirmation of the first thesis.
2) From ME1 we know that the cycle was repeated more than once. Unable to reach a level of technology, and then wait for the rest once every 50,000 years. Confirmation of the second and third thesis.
All the arguments about the intersection of the black hole, I confirmed, i posted links by articles in popular - science journals, all the arguments are logical and theoretically possible.
- Motives the Reapers. They are trying to keep a decent race, transforming them into Reaper, because the Milky Way too will grow old and the majority of stars will blow supernova, and in such chaos organic life can't exist. Motives the Reapers is supported by the fact that the collectors did.
But I can refuse to travel to an alternate time - space (crossing the black hole) if the Reapers came from the other "dead" - the old galaxy in the early stages of development of our galaxy - the Milky Way.
It's easier to understand and also does not disturb the overall picture and motives.
For me the main - it's motives Reapers - to keep of decent, by converting them into Reaper.
I'm not saying that I am ready sacrifice many lives to join the reapers. But such motivations true interesting than just a desire to gather resources and live forever. Generally, this view is based only on how Protheans saw Reapers, but it does not mean correct.
I do not understand why everyone sees only what is on the surface, think, read.
The main in this theory:.
- Nobody don't built the Reapers, like warships or AI They were living creatures, but the death of the majority of stars in the galaxy led them to become those who we know as the Reapers.
- They were organic beings. Organic life develops for great time and the fact of the appearance of such a life is a miracle.
- To achieve the level of technology and embrace the entire galaxy from the edge to the center also requires a massive amount of time.
- Do not travel in time, but in the alternative space-time.
And this is the most controversial statement. Most do not take such a turn. But without that first 3 arguments are refuted, but it is unacceptable because:
1) From ME2 we know that the Reapers are not just machines. For confirmation of the first thesis.
2) From ME1 we know that the cycle was repeated more than once. Unable to reach a level of technology, and then wait for the rest once every 50,000 years. Confirmation of the second and third thesis.
All the arguments about the intersection of the black hole, I confirmed, i posted links by articles in popular - science journals, all the arguments are logical and theoretically possible.
- Motives the Reapers. They are trying to keep a decent race, transforming them into Reaper, because the Milky Way too will grow old and the majority of stars will blow supernova, and in such chaos organic life can't exist. Motives the Reapers is supported by the fact that the collectors did.
But I can refuse to travel to an alternate time - space (crossing the black hole) if the Reapers came from the other "dead" - the old galaxy in the early stages of development of our galaxy - the Milky Way.
It's easier to understand and also does not disturb the overall picture and motives.
For me the main - it's motives Reapers - to keep of decent, by converting them into Reaper.
I'm not saying that I am ready sacrifice many lives to join the reapers. But such motivations true interesting than just a desire to gather resources and live forever. Generally, this view is based only on how Protheans saw Reapers, but it does not mean correct.
I do not understand why everyone sees only what is on the surface, think, read.
Modifié par Dem_B, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:35 .
#161
Posté 23 novembre 2010 - 08:54
petrickthystag
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The above vision of the Reapers is truly interesting.
It even fits the overall picture beautifully, since Sovereign said that each of them is an entire nation.
Moreover, this is a pretty cool sci-fi metaphore for one of the great questions in political philosophy - can good be superposed from above, can somebody far more advanced, intelligent, greater than you define what is good for you?
Nonetheless, there are still slight issues with that. Collectors were gathering single speciments before Shepard destroyed Sovereign - why would they rush and harvest humans to make a Human-Reaper? Yes, a nation has just died in face of a Reaper, but why would you hurry to produce another one so quickly? That is drawing too much attention, by the way. And paranoid people like Illusive Man will do whatever it takes to stop the genocide.
A concept of alternative of reality is a topic for a separate discussion. The theory of alternative space-times is far more developed than an image of many spheres with a possibility to travel between them, which (no offense) is what I heard from above post.
And I also heard that it is impossible to kill yourself after moving backwards in time. Sorry to upset, it isn't.
The concept of time travel and the concept of alternative reality are closely tied together and are, in fact, only thin branches of one Unity Theory, don't forget about it.
In plain - you travel back in time and kill yourself. But you only killed one of different yourselves. You only changed one reality. And nobody knows in how many realities you are time travelling to kill yourself. And in how many you aren't. And in how many more you are travelling backwards to give an advice to your old self. And there is always a certain probability that two hundtreds of yourselves will meet sometime and have a big "I exist" party.
It even fits the overall picture beautifully, since Sovereign said that each of them is an entire nation.
Moreover, this is a pretty cool sci-fi metaphore for one of the great questions in political philosophy - can good be superposed from above, can somebody far more advanced, intelligent, greater than you define what is good for you?
Nonetheless, there are still slight issues with that. Collectors were gathering single speciments before Shepard destroyed Sovereign - why would they rush and harvest humans to make a Human-Reaper? Yes, a nation has just died in face of a Reaper, but why would you hurry to produce another one so quickly? That is drawing too much attention, by the way. And paranoid people like Illusive Man will do whatever it takes to stop the genocide.
A concept of alternative of reality is a topic for a separate discussion. The theory of alternative space-times is far more developed than an image of many spheres with a possibility to travel between them, which (no offense) is what I heard from above post.
And I also heard that it is impossible to kill yourself after moving backwards in time. Sorry to upset, it isn't.
The concept of time travel and the concept of alternative reality are closely tied together and are, in fact, only thin branches of one Unity Theory, don't forget about it.
In plain - you travel back in time and kill yourself. But you only killed one of different yourselves. You only changed one reality. And nobody knows in how many realities you are time travelling to kill yourself. And in how many you aren't. And in how many more you are travelling backwards to give an advice to your old self. And there is always a certain probability that two hundtreds of yourselves will meet sometime and have a big "I exist" party.
Modifié par petrickthystag, 23 novembre 2010 - 09:17 .
#162
Posté 23 novembre 2010 - 09:07
petrickthystag
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I saw a post higher involving the mass realys.
There is already a concept in physics of a space travel involving changing the geometry of space-time.
In plain, it's like surfing down the wave - you create a wave in space-time, and then it carries you.
Important notice: this does not involve ship traveling through space at all! It might be just standing still, while the point where it is actually travels.
This is one of the concepts of faster-than-light travel. It necessarily avoids the speed of light limit, because there is nothing travelling at all (that is hard to imagine and understand, took me a while, but overall theory is sound).
This is what I imagined as a mass relay.
There is already a concept in physics of a space travel involving changing the geometry of space-time.
In plain, it's like surfing down the wave - you create a wave in space-time, and then it carries you.
Important notice: this does not involve ship traveling through space at all! It might be just standing still, while the point where it is actually travels.
This is one of the concepts of faster-than-light travel. It necessarily avoids the speed of light limit, because there is nothing travelling at all (that is hard to imagine and understand, took me a while, but overall theory is sound).
This is what I imagined as a mass relay.
Modifié par petrickthystag, 23 novembre 2010 - 09:17 .
#163
Posté 30 novembre 2010 - 10:48
Dem_B
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Cyclic Universe.
In the relic radiation of the universe discovered the ring structure. They may indicate that the universe was not born at the Big Bang, and has always existed.
Sovereign said that Reapers has always existed. It is may be not a metaphor.
Also "cycle can not be broken" may have a value not related to the destruction of organic life.
Cyclical model of the universe, helps to explain, how Reapers were able for a long time before the advent of Humanity and more ancient races achieve the level of technology and cover the entire galaxy from edge to center.
If interesting you can read this physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/44388
In the relic radiation of the universe discovered the ring structure. They may indicate that the universe was not born at the Big Bang, and has always existed.
Sovereign said that Reapers has always existed. It is may be not a metaphor.
Also "cycle can not be broken" may have a value not related to the destruction of organic life.
Cyclical model of the universe, helps to explain, how Reapers were able for a long time before the advent of Humanity and more ancient races achieve the level of technology and cover the entire galaxy from edge to center.
If interesting you can read this physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/44388
Modifié par Dem_B, 30 novembre 2010 - 10:54 .
#164
Posté 30 novembre 2010 - 02:15
Luigitornado
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Please no time travel....so done with that stuff.
#165
Posté 01 décembre 2010 - 01:01
Jedi Master of Orion
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Star Trek XI was just a mindless action movie in space surrounded by an enormous amount of nonsensical plotholes. A supernova threatened to destroy the galaxy? Jeeze. I would hope ME 3 will be better than that.
Why does everyone seem to think that the Reapers are actually the good guys? They've made it quite clear they aren't doing any of what they are doing for our benefit.
Why does everyone seem to think that the Reapers are actually the good guys? They've made it quite clear they aren't doing any of what they are doing for our benefit.
#166
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 06:26
wookieeassassin
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Are you people serious? This JJ Abrams theory isn't that convoluted, and it actually makes a whole lot of sense out of a handful of things that currently don't make a whole lot of sense.
#167
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 08:23
Dem_B
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Well, it still finds support. Good, may be something from this will.
#168
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 10:26
Saren100
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I have a bad feeling that if we add time travel to mass effect this will happen
#169
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 11:39
Chuvvy
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Saren100 wrote...
I have a bad feeling that if we add time travel to mass effect this will happen
Best thing that could possibly happen to the series.
#170
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 12:28
Vengeful Nature
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Blech. Time travel leaves a horrible taste in my mouth. It opens the way for all sorts of dodgy plot mechanisms, let alone the fact that it's very likely to be impossible.
Apart from that, the theory's interesting. To be honest, though, not much time is left in the trilogy, since a lot of time was wasted in ME2 on inconsequential distractions. With only one game left, I'd prefer that they focused on how we are going to stop the Reapers in a non-plotmagic and logical way, and leave the explanations about why the Reaper's are doing what they're doing to speculation. After all, the reason the Flood worked so well in Halo is because their motives were unclear and all that mattered was stopping them.
Geth... and dinosaurs?
I think I just had an awesome-induced heart attack.
Apart from that, the theory's interesting. To be honest, though, not much time is left in the trilogy, since a lot of time was wasted in ME2 on inconsequential distractions. With only one game left, I'd prefer that they focused on how we are going to stop the Reapers in a non-plotmagic and logical way, and leave the explanations about why the Reaper's are doing what they're doing to speculation. After all, the reason the Flood worked so well in Halo is because their motives were unclear and all that mattered was stopping them.
Slidell505 wrote...
Saren100 wrote...
I have a bad feeling that if we add time travel to mass effect this will happen
Best thing that could possibly happen to the series.
Geth... and dinosaurs?
I think I just had an awesome-induced heart attack.
#171
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 02:17
Dem_B
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Everyone can say time travel sucks, but then who can say how Reapers have achieved such success as they could.
I am not standing on the position the defense of time travel as single way to this. If someone can offer a better explanation as Reapers have achieved such a level i will support.
For me the story of Mass Effect - a history of opposition to the Reapers, but I'm waiting on this not just once again say, "I saved the galaxy, and all lived happily ever after.
I want to know why all this. Why - this is the most important thing for me. Without it, I will assume that the story is not complete. And of course in the final or climax (different things), we learn about the Reapers more, as it did in ME1 in conversation with Sovereign.
And yes I agree with @Vengeful Nature that in ME2 lost a lot of time on little things, it seemed that the little things is primary, but main story is secondary.
I am not standing on the position the defense of time travel as single way to this. If someone can offer a better explanation as Reapers have achieved such a level i will support.
For me the story of Mass Effect - a history of opposition to the Reapers, but I'm waiting on this not just once again say, "I saved the galaxy, and all lived happily ever after.
I want to know why all this. Why - this is the most important thing for me. Without it, I will assume that the story is not complete. And of course in the final or climax (different things), we learn about the Reapers more, as it did in ME1 in conversation with Sovereign.
And yes I agree with @Vengeful Nature that in ME2 lost a lot of time on little things, it seemed that the little things is primary, but main story is secondary.
Modifié par Dem_B, 14 décembre 2010 - 03:01 .
#172
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 04:39
NovemEnuma
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Their cries are blown away with the wind.
How passive can we be before humanity is lost?
Turning our backs on those who need love.
We must not rest while healing is needed.
Tear down the veil.
That bars your heart from feeling this.
Dedicate yourself.
Give your soul to compassion.
With open arms, embrace this heart.
With open eyes, behold the truth.
Embrace this life.
So little time is left.
We must be relentless in our pursuit of those in torment.
Tear down the veil
That bars your heart from feeling this.
Dedicate yourself.
Become the voice of compassion.
With open arms, embrace this heart.
With open eyes, behold the truth.
Embrace this life.
Can you reject yourself?
Can you feel their agony?
In a world that feeds on disregard.
Heal the broken hearted.
^Embrace it.
How passive can we be before humanity is lost?
Turning our backs on those who need love.
We must not rest while healing is needed.
Tear down the veil.
That bars your heart from feeling this.
Dedicate yourself.
Give your soul to compassion.
With open arms, embrace this heart.
With open eyes, behold the truth.
Embrace this life.
So little time is left.
We must be relentless in our pursuit of those in torment.
Tear down the veil
That bars your heart from feeling this.
Dedicate yourself.
Become the voice of compassion.
With open arms, embrace this heart.
With open eyes, behold the truth.
Embrace this life.
Can you reject yourself?
Can you feel their agony?
In a world that feeds on disregard.
Heal the broken hearted.
^Embrace it.
#173
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 12:52
wookieeassassin
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Seriously, do you people think that you are too good for a science fiction story that involves time travel or parallel timelines? I have never heard anything like this before. Most people assume that time travel is a possible plot element in a science fiction tale. Since when has science fiction been strictly limited to what is actually theoretically possible? I'm pretty sure that an actual research physicist can take quite a few of the things in the Mass Effect universe and say that they probably aren't possible.
If you feel that time travel is overused, you don't think stories that hinge on it are particularly useful, or for some other reason you don't want it to be part of the Mass Effect plot then just say so. The idea that someone things that science fiction is too good for time travel is just ridiculous though, its like sci-fi elitism or something. I seriously doubt that any of you are professional physicists, but it is possible that you are. However, I really doubt any of you are professional physicists that deal with matters regarding the laws of the universe that time travel doesn't work with. If not having everything right as far as physics is concerned irritates you then I don't think movies or video games are your thing, you might just want to stick to physics research.
If you feel that time travel is overused, you don't think stories that hinge on it are particularly useful, or for some other reason you don't want it to be part of the Mass Effect plot then just say so. The idea that someone things that science fiction is too good for time travel is just ridiculous though, its like sci-fi elitism or something. I seriously doubt that any of you are professional physicists, but it is possible that you are. However, I really doubt any of you are professional physicists that deal with matters regarding the laws of the universe that time travel doesn't work with. If not having everything right as far as physics is concerned irritates you then I don't think movies or video games are your thing, you might just want to stick to physics research.
Modifié par wookieeassassin, 15 décembre 2010 - 01:00 .
#174
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 01:45
Skilled Seeker
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Fight the system you rebel! How dare they modernise Star Trek to appeal to modern audiences! This is an outrage!Terror_K wrote...
Rivercurse wrote...
giskard8plus wrote...
No J.J. please, he already ruined Star Trek.
What?
J.J. Abrams ruined Star Trek. Well... technically Enterprise already did that, but Abrams beat the dead horse by turning Star Trek into a modern, mainstream typical Hollywood piece of rotten tripe. I'd prefer not to see Mass Effect turn into the same (especially since ME2 already did this a little to much for my tastes already).
Abrams wouldn't care about canon and staying true to the original vision of Mass Effect, he'd just warp it into his own version of the IP and the whole thing would be (excuse the term) alien to us.
/heavy sarcasm
#175
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 02:56
wookieeassassin
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I'd probably be attacked for saying this, but I have tried to watch some of the Star Trek TV series shows and I couldn't stand them. I did like the new Star Trek though. I didn't think it was going to be as heavy on the action though, because of the episodes I had watched.
Anyway, yeah Abrams might change Mass Effect to be something different, but his version might actually make more sense than the current one or at least make sense of some of the nonsensical stuff from the first two. I'm not a diehard fan of the Mass Effect story so far for sure. I really love the games, but as far as the actual plot goes I'm not near as entertained. In fact, the plot in ME1 and ME2 is the main reason why I gave them an 8.5-9 instead of a 10. I'm talking particularly about logic errors or contradictions, not the theme in general.
Anyway, yeah Abrams might change Mass Effect to be something different, but his version might actually make more sense than the current one or at least make sense of some of the nonsensical stuff from the first two. I'm not a diehard fan of the Mass Effect story so far for sure. I really love the games, but as far as the actual plot goes I'm not near as entertained. In fact, the plot in ME1 and ME2 is the main reason why I gave them an 8.5-9 instead of a 10. I'm talking particularly about logic errors or contradictions, not the theme in general.
Modifié par wookieeassassin, 15 décembre 2010 - 02:58 .
