Aller au contenu

Photo

Liara T'Soni, a future threat? (Major Spoilers)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
126 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Lyrandori

Lyrandori
  • Members
  • 2 157 messages
Alright, I'm a big Liara fan, romanced her in ME1, couldn't wait for LotSB to be released, now I played it (well, just yesterday, a bit late to the party but it's done now). I really liked the DLC, well done, seriously. Now, as much as I like (and as my Shepard loves) Liara, I am open to future potential scenarios for ME3, but more importantly, beyond ME3's ending (perhaps via ME3 DLCs and/or future ME-related media/lore). The thing is that at the end of the DLC, well near the end anyway, when the battle against the Shadow Broker (impressive and very intimidating by the way, well done BioWare, I was in fact expecting some frustrated-of-life Human, but that one alien was nice as well) is finished and you can visit the place a bit and talk to Liara, she clearly replies after Shepard jokingly mentioned that Liara could just take control of the galaxy with such power and intel at her disposal that she (Liara) felt the temptation of it, but that she wouldn't, because she has a purpose, and that is to help Shepard get rid of the Reapers...

Well, that's fine.

Now, I thought: «But, what happens when the Reapers are gone?».

In ME2, the big enemy are the Collectors and the main purpose is to destroy (or keep) their main base (or their only one so it seems), but of course via DLCs we can continue playing as much as BioWare provides such content, which helps giving the feeling that things continue to go on after the Collectors have been dealt with, that good and evil around the galaxy still persists in its various forms of conflict left and right, basically that life goes on. In ME3 after the Reapers are "destroyed", killed, stopped, disabled, whatever happens, then I would presume that of course the "main purpose" of Shepard (thus Liara's) is completed, but BioWare could resume on with more content and that way we could see what goes on in the ME universe after the "main problem" is gone (Reapers).

If Liara's main "purpose" is the sole reason that keeps her away from tempation too hard to resist (let's face it, Liara is darker now, no one could deny it or try to excuse it, she's just not the same and she tells that to Shepard in the DLC, that they both - according to her - are now different persons) is no more (Reapers) then I'm having a very bad taste in my mouth of some sort of serious conflict between her, her actions (Liara having conflicts of mind and thoughts with herself, not knowing what to do or knowing she can't go back anymore, and so on) and Shepard, that Liara could potentially (or on purpose, that would be the extreme, although a possible one) put in danger thousands, millions if not billions of lives, and "danger" here doesn't necessarily mean that Liara will send armies to "innocent" worlds and wipe out life, that's not what I mean, I guess it's almost alegorical, but what I mean is that once the Reapers are gone only two things could happen, she uses the Shadow Broker's (now her own) intel and resources (agents, influence, funds, etc.) for the "good" and "justice" (as much as possible anyway, I wouldn't see her turning into an angel either), or she completely blows up the little that's left of her of virtuous thoughts and principles, and falls, corrupted by the power she now has in her hands.

In fact, right now, I'm seeing Liara turning into a full-fledged Benezia, but for real this time, no need for indoctrination, the real Benezia collaborating with evil and ruthlessness, perhaps even becoming a definite choice for Renegade players around, a new-born Illusive Asari. I must admit, even though I do really like Liara, the character she was in ME1 was different, yes, but that's objectively speaking, but subjectively she was simply a better individual. Now of course, according to the lore she was pretty much forced in and forced by a new context, surival, danger, suspicions, she had to adapt and her mind, her "self" changed over two years to that extent, to what I would call her own opposite extreme, she's not entirely "dark" as of now, as of the end of the DLC, but I believe that either during or after (probably after) the events of ME3 there's not much to look for other than a "good" or a "rogue" Liara (not to say evil). All of this is because I sincerily feel that she's slipping away and slowly but surely losing her grip on reality due to the sheer amount of resources and power she now has, I mean guys... she was an archeologist for crying out loud, pretty impressive road trip she's been on to get to where she is now huh, that certainly changes poeple around.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:59 .


#2
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages
I think that my heavily Paragon Shepard will be able to keep her on the straight and narrow, somehow.



Although she was starting to fall in love with Samara as well, and if Liara did fall altogether, I could see her teaming up with Samara to take Liara down, albeit very, very reluctantly.

#3
Whatever42

Whatever42
  • Members
  • 3 143 messages
Liara will definitely go to the darkside if she remains Shadow Broker. And she will want to remain the SB. Liara the archeologist would be in heaven building all these models with the information. It's her dream job.

I doubt she will go Darth Vader and conquer the galaxy; the SB is not that kind of person and runs things behind the scenes through favours and blackmail. Where the darkside comes in is when people try to mess with her: attempt to replace her, compete, fight back. She has shown herself to be ruthless and she will not show mercy when opposed.

She might not start at killing innocents to protect the exclusivity of her information, it just might be fighting off competitors or making sure that people pay their bills. But eventually she will turn into the old SB. She will have to or she won't be able to hold onto what she has and she seems to very much enjoy what she has.

I think LI Shepard can keep her honest. She will worry about what Shepard thinks. However, once Shepard's gone, Liara will be consumed by her role as the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 16 septembre 2010 - 02:04 .


#4
Guest_Shandepared_*

Guest_Shandepared_*
  • Guests
I can't imagine she'd ever be a threat. The Shadow Broker was never a serious threat either. He never took sides, after all. The only reason he was willing to work with the Collectors was because he felt Shepard's body was useless to them anyway. Otherwise he was taking steps to thwart the Reapers, as he had in the first game (free of charge).



I was a little disappointed in fact that we couldn't bring that up, especially if you gave him the Cerberus data in ME1.



Anyway... getting off topic.



Ultimately I don't think Liara will be a threat either, at least not to Shepard. Even if you don't romance her it is clear she has feelings for him. Of-course the Illusive Man may feel she's a threat, or at least an obstacle. Chances are he'll want to co-opt the Shadow Broker network for Cerberus.

#5
Major Truth

Major Truth
  • Members
  • 412 messages
It is something that has crossed my mind since LOTSB

A few things that I think

* LOTSB is their to bridge the gap between ME2 and ME3. After playing this I think Liara is more likely to turn "Bad" then she was at the end of ME2

* I think everyone would admit that the seeds have been planted that Liara is not the same person she was in ME1

* I think Liara will play a huge part in ME3 - that could be with or against you

* "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" - I've always seen the SB as a "Baddie". In order to continue on as the SB Liara will have to do morally questionable things

* I have no doubt that she would have thought about what she wanted to do once she defeated the SB over the last two years. She didnt hesitate, she took over immediatly. That was a pre-meditated move

* She has become incredibly ambitious and it shows

Modifié par Major Truth, 16 septembre 2010 - 02:15 .


#6
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 684 messages
Threat? I doubt it. Not your ally be default?



If not your lover, Liara is your friend. But she isn't your servant, and sooner or later she and Shepard may well clash, and while compromises may be made for awhile she won't always turn over for Shepard's benefit.

#7
JPXD

JPXD
  • Members
  • 47 messages
I would thoroughly enjoy punching her in the face. Seriously, even though I romanced her (I didn't have much of a choice since Kaidan left after I propositioned them both - jesus does that girl have low self esteem), I found her character very "cardboard"-esque.



ME2's Liara was even worse. It was like a little girl running around in her mother's high heels. She didn't garner my respect or fear like Benezia did. This is defintely a case of a girl trying to live up to her mother and failing miserably.



I haven't played the DLC yet...I'm a late comer to ME in general and just beat ME2 yesterday. But I doubt there is much that would change my mind about her. We'll see...

#8
SmokePants

SmokePants
  • Members
  • 1 121 messages
If Liara is going to be the voice in Sheperd's ear in ME3, it's only natural to have some level of contentiousness to make the arrangement interesting. I don't see her as a boss-level villain, but I think every character needs a dark side or an edge to their personality and Liara needed it more than most.

#9
Major Truth

Major Truth
  • Members
  • 412 messages

JPXD wrote...

I would thoroughly enjoy punching her in the face. Seriously, even though I romanced her (I didn't have much of a choice since Kaidan left after I propositioned them both - jesus does that girl have low self esteem), I found her character very "cardboard"-esque.

ME2's Liara was even worse. It was like a little girl running around in her mother's high heels. She didn't garner my respect or fear like Benezia did. This is defintely a case of a girl trying to live up to her mother and failing miserably.

I haven't played the DLC yet...I'm a late comer to ME in general and just beat ME2 yesterday. But I doubt there is much that would change my mind about her. We'll see...


I felt exactly the same as you. I have to say my opinion of her did change after LOTSB.

The changes to her personality over the two years really come to the fore front. In ME1 I saw her as a silly little girl, In ME2 I just found our interactions annoying, In LOTSB I definitely started to sit up and pay attention to Ms T'Soni

#10
AngryFrozenWater

AngryFrozenWater
  • Members
  • 9 146 messages
My Shepards that romanced Liara have made different decisions. Some of the paragon ones continued the relation and try to steer her away from the lust for power. They aren't happy about what she became. When Liara tells Shepard that she was afraid Shepard would hate her for selling her body to Cerberus these Shepards agreed. I though that would end the relation, but it didn't. Strange. The paragon Shepards that ended the relation using the DLC did it because (A) she sold the body to Cerberus (the right of self-determination is bad for the game's continuation, but it is a human right and she violated that) or (B) because she has changed beyond recognition. I have 2 renegade Shepards. One decided to continue the relation for pragmatic reasons. The other chose to break it off on friendly terms, because Liara could become an enemy once her lust for power would consume her. Having a relation in that case would make Shepard a victim to manipulation. Now I know that a lot of these scenarios won't make it in the game, but I don't know which will, so it is good to have them covered anyway. :P

#11
jimmyjoefro

jimmyjoefro
  • Members
  • 638 messages
I wonder if the grand consequence of not romancing Liara, or dumping her, is that she becomes a "renegade" SB.



On the flip side, if you did romance her and stayed faithful through ME2, Shepard's presence in her life post-Reapers would keep her from giving into the temptation; a "paragon" SB.

#12
Lvl20DM

Lvl20DM
  • Members
  • 610 messages
I think that she is being set up to be the TIM or Hackett/Council of ME3. She still might join the squad at some point, who knows. I don't see her becoming an enemy.

#13
AngryFrozenWater

AngryFrozenWater
  • Members
  • 9 146 messages

Lvl20DM wrote...

I think that she is being set up to be the TIM or Hackett/Council of ME3. She still might join the squad at some point, who knows. I don't see her becoming an enemy.

That's something that crossed my mind as well. She is one of the few powers in the game with enough resources and she has access to vital information. Although I hope that Shepard can work as a Spectre again. I have enough of those dark and edgy secret organizations. Maybe Shepard works without any other backup than his crew and the allies gathered so far. But that's another topic. ;)

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 16 septembre 2010 - 03:13 .


#14
Major Truth

Major Truth
  • Members
  • 412 messages
but continuing as the SB is not a paragon act



I just cannot see how Liara can stay on the side of good (excluding the reaper threat) - surely she now has to be neutral at least

#15
Rivercurse

Rivercurse
  • Members
  • 2 005 messages
Ideally after the reaper threat is ended, Shep/Liara should just tear down the SB's network, break contact with all the agents, and destroy all his files.

End of an era in more ways than one. 
Then the galaxy can move forward, united.

Modifié par Rivercurse, 16 septembre 2010 - 03:42 .


#16
AngryFrozenWater

AngryFrozenWater
  • Members
  • 9 146 messages

Major Truth wrote...

but continuing as the SB is not a paragon act

I just cannot see how Liara can stay on the side of good (excluding the reaper threat) - surely she now has to be neutral at least

She won't be neutral. And I doubt she'll be truly paragon. Look at what she tells Shepard:

"But I've got a purpose: Helping you stop the reapers. That will keep me honest. You know, relatively speaking."

That leads me to believe she'll end up more towards the renegade side.

#17
jimmyjoefro

jimmyjoefro
  • Members
  • 638 messages
The SB is not inherently renegade. All the SB is is an information dealer, and a very powerful one at that. Liara can very well use her resources and power as the SB for beneficial purposes.

#18
Major Truth

Major Truth
  • Members
  • 412 messages

jimmyjoefro wrote...

The SB is not inherently renegade. All the SB is is an information dealer, and a very powerful one at that. Liara can very well use her resources and power as the SB for beneficial purposes.


I disagree. The shadow broker does not take sides no matter what the moral consequences. It opperates by using fear, intimidation and bribery. Its information is sold to the highest bidder regardless of who that is. The SB uses information gathered to further themselves and their influence

That is inherently renegade

The question is this:

Did Liara become the SB in order to help defeat the Reapers

or

Did Liara become the SB to further her own interests, one of them being the defeat of the Reapers

Modifié par Major Truth, 16 septembre 2010 - 04:06 .


#19
AngryFrozenWater

AngryFrozenWater
  • Members
  • 9 146 messages

jimmyjoefro wrote...

The SB is not inherently renegade. All the SB is is an information dealer, and a very powerful one at that. Liara can very well use her resources and power as the SB for beneficial purposes.

Just an information dealer? Nah. The Shadow Broker is more than that. She has true power.

"I can understand the temptation. I've got all the secrets of the galaxy at my fingertips. Give me ten minutes and I could start a war."

That scene is very theatrical. She smiles when she makes that statement.

Just to emphasize your statement. She leans to renegade, though.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 16 septembre 2010 - 04:10 .


#20
lovgreno

lovgreno
  • Members
  • 3 523 messages
It is possible Liara will replace TIMmys role in ME3. A powerfull person with high ideals but sometimes questionable methods.

#21
Major Truth

Major Truth
  • Members
  • 412 messages

lovgreno wrote...

It is possible Liara will replace TIMmys role in ME3. A powerfull person with high ideals but sometimes questionable methods.


Liara giving the orders instead of taking them? - Don't know how Shepard and his crew would respond to that

#22
Chuvvy

Chuvvy
  • Members
  • 9 686 messages
Meta gaming here. Nope, she's an LI can't happen.

#23
KainrycKarr

KainrycKarr
  • Members
  • 4 819 messages

Lvl20DM wrote...

I think that she is being set up to be the TIM or Hackett/Council of ME3. She still might join the squad at some point, who knows. I don't see her becoming an enemy.


I'd say this is fairly obvious. Just don't see Liara being an outright enemy of Shep's anytime soon. Conflict, to be sure, but not enemy.

#24
GnusmasTHX

GnusmasTHX
  • Members
  • 5 963 messages
Meh, the SB himself was never an actual threat to Shepard, no reason why your BFF Liara would be once she became the SB.



(I mean assuming a normal world where you don't see a corpse and think, I HAVE TO SAVE HIM/IT!)



Hell you only killed him because Liara wanted you to.

#25
Major Truth

Major Truth
  • Members
  • 412 messages

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Meh, the SB himself was never an actual threat to Shepard, no reason why your BFF Liara would be once she became the SB.
.


um yes he was. He threatened him and tried to sell his body to the collectors. Then he tried to kill Liara and Shepard