126 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

I just hate it when the PC has so much power and influence over what a squad mate/companion does. Little things are fine (it's impossible for Shepard not to influence others to some extent), but this 'turn her to the dark-side/save her' deal would be a big thing, IMO. I just want her to use the SB resources to help stop the Reapers, then go home at the end of the day and move on with her own life, without the corruption or evil nonsense, and independent of what Shepard wants.

[PWENER]

She goes insane and starts a war every 10 minutes.

[1490]

jlb524 wrote...

I just hate it when the PC has so much power and influence over what a squad mate/companion does. Little things are fine (it's impossible for Shepard not to influence others to some extent), but this 'turn her to the dark-side/save her' deal would be a big thing, IMO. I just want her to use the SB resources to help stop the Reapers, then go home at the end of the day and move on with her own life, without the corruption or evil nonsense, and independent of what Shepard wants.

I didn't really mean that the player would "control" the character.  Obviously in LotSB, Liara was going after the Shadow Broker whether Shepard liked it or not, and he could either decide to help or back off.  Still, I think it makes a story more interesting when a character is on the fence about something and the player has the opportunity to help them with a decision.  Take X loyalty mission where X character is about to kill someone and Shepard encourages them not to - or they don't want to shoot the person but Shepard encourages them to do so.  This is more fun (IMO) than just watching a preset cinematic of the character doing whatever.  Maybe Liara finds herself in a tough decision in ME 3 whether to abandon the Shadow Broker lair, or continue to be the Shadow Broker, and it's Shepard's advice that pushes her toward either direction.

[PD ORTA]

I was wondering when I'd see a thread like this. As I thought the exact same thing. I felt very uneasy as I watched Liara become The shadow broker. Liara has a very dark side to her. While she has Sheppard in her life keeping her honest, she'll be fine. But once sheppard's gone and Liara's the shadow broker with no huge quest (fighting the reapers) to keep her occupied, she will eventually become a threat.



With Liara the saying "Absolute power, corrupts absolutely" comes to mind.

[JamieCOTC]

jlb524 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

As someone rightly pointed out, it's highly unlikely Liara will flip out before the Reapers appear. After the galaxy is saved is where it will get interesting. Will Liara give up the power of being the SB, etc. etc? I'd like to think it would be depended on if she was a Shep LI, if Shep was alive after final battle and how she was treated throughout the course of all three games and DLCs. However, the seeds of her corruption have already begun to sprout.

I still don't see any seed of corruption there, sprouting or not.   She does have a lot of power, yes, but it doesn't have to corrupt her.

Will she give up her position as SB after the Reapers are gone?  Maybe, or maybe not.  If she can continue using the info network for good, she may keep it. 

I do have faith in the writers that they won't rehash the 'Aribastilla' or the 'woman gets corrupted by power' crap with Liara, and I hope that faith is well placed.

Well, she put the Salarian, what'shisname, in harm's way and said she'd do it again to reach her goal.  Also, it didn't seem to bother her that the SB Mercs were still shooting up Illium. This is from the woman who felt (a little) sorry for Saren.  Honestly, I posted the Liaribastila thing as a joke, but there are some interesting simularities between Aribastilla and Liara.  In the end, I don't expect Liara to go evil, but she may become more like TIM, get the job done at any cost.  For Renegades, could be heaven on earth, but Liara and Paragons will butt heads.  Of that, I have no doubt. 

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

I just hate it when the PC has so much power and influence over what a squad mate/companion does. Little things are fine (it's impossible for Shepard not to influence others to some extent), but this 'turn her to the dark-side/save her' deal would be a big thing, IMO. I just want her to use the SB resources to help stop the Reapers, then go home at the end of the day and move on with her own life, without the corruption or evil nonsense, and independent of what Shepard wants.

Apart of me is more worried that she might sell information that'll get people's families killed, like with Thane, or fund shady business for credits. I doubt she'll start any wars though, unless you get her drunk.

But oddly enough, I don't mind her being the Shadow Broker anymore. I was against it before (especially when she was just an information broker), but I trust her now. Sure I'm worried, but at least I'm there to support her. And now she's almost like a secret gem, being a beauty hidden behind the shadows. 

[1490]

PD ORTA wrote...

I was wondering when I'd see a thread like this. As I thought the exact same thing. I felt very uneasy as I watched Liara become The shadow broker. Liara has a very dark side to her. While she has Sheppard in her life keeping her honest, she'll be fine. But once sheppard's gone and Liara's the shadow broker with no huge quest (fighting the reapers) to keep her occupied, she will eventually become a threat.

With Liara the saying "Absolute power, corrupts absolutely" comes to mind.

Exactly, and that creates tension.  Any good story is built on suspense.  What good is watching an action movie if you have an absolute guarantee the main character won't get hurt or die?  There has to be a chance of failure to make success more satisfying.  I'd rather see a character conflict that have a guarantee that Liara will step down from the SB role easily.

[JamieCOTC]

On a more optimistic tone, while I certainly see Shep dying at the end of ME3 and Liara going off the deep end as options, I doubt BW would go through all the trouble of three games w/out the possibility of a sunshine and bunnies ending too. And happy endings sell better. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 16 septembre 2010 - 11:16 .

[1490]

JamieCOTC wrote...

On a more optimistic tone, while I certainly see Shep dying at the end of ME3 and Liara going off the deep end as options, I doubt BW would go through all the trouble of three games w/out the possibility of a sunshine and bunnies ending too.

Nah, I'm sure you'll have the option of the "super happy ending" if you make the right choices.  The ME series has some dark parts, but it's not a dark story set in a drab, hopeless world.  It's an epic tale, and usually in such tales the hero saves the day.

[jlb524]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Well, she put the Salarian, what'shisname, in harm's way and said she'd do it again to reach her goal.  Also, it didn't seem to bother her that the SB Mercs were still shooting up Illium. This is from the woman who felt (a little) sorry for Saren.  Honestly, I posted the Liaribastila thing as a joke, but there are some interesting simularities between Aribastilla and Liara.  In the end, I don't expect Liara to go evil, but she may become more like TIM, get the job done at any cost.  For Renegades, could be heaven on earth, but Liara and Paragons will butt heads.  Of that, I have no doubt. 

I admit that it's a concern that they will just rehash the old Aribastila fallen woman trope again, but I'm going to keep thinking positive for now.

If they do want to turn Liara into an old BW character, I hope they go more Silk Fox from Jade Empire (who was powerful, had a bit of a hardened edge to her, but uncorrupted) and less Aribastila.

[robtheguru]

1490 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

On a more optimistic tone, while I certainly see Shep dying at the end of ME3 and Liara going off the deep end as options, I doubt BW would go through all the trouble of three games w/out the possibility of a sunshine and bunnies ending too.

Nah, I'm sure you'll have the option of the "super happy ending" if you make the right choices.  The ME series has some dark parts, but it's not a dark story set in a drab, hopeless world.  It's an epic tale, and usually in such tales the hero saves the day.

My sig is a spoiler for the Epic Paragon Ending

[Vicious]

There's definetly worst choice out there. And the galaxy will have a SB, like it or not, may as well be someone who is somewhat moral and on your side.

[PD ORTA]

1490 wrote...

PD ORTA wrote...

I was wondering when I'd see a thread like this. As I thought the exact same thing. I felt very uneasy as I watched Liara become The shadow broker. Liara has a very dark side to her. While she has Sheppard in her life keeping her honest, she'll be fine. But once sheppard's gone and Liara's the shadow broker with no huge quest (fighting the reapers) to keep her occupied, she will eventually become a threat.

With Liara the saying "Absolute power, corrupts absolutely" comes to mind.

Exactly, and that creates tension.  Any good story is built on suspense.  What good is watching an action movie if you have an absolute guarantee the main character won't get hurt or die?  There has to be a chance of failure to make success more satisfying.  I'd rather see a character conflict that have a guarantee that Liara will step down from the SB role easily.

I agree. Which is why I spared the Rachni queen, re-wrote the Geth and gave TIM the collector base, all risky choices that could come back and bite me on the ass. I just hope that as Liara's my LI, if at the end of ME3 she dumps me to remain the SB... I have the option of taking her out.
To spare the galaxy from evil Liara... not because she dumped me 

[D.Sharrah]

It would not surprise me at all if the Shepard's fate is nor determined directly by player's actions at the moment of climax, but rather by the sum of all of the choices that we have made in ME up to that point.



I almost imagine an absolutely epic battle cinematic that takes into account all of the "choices". Small episodes of combat that bridge the "chapters" of the final confrontation unfolding - and these episodic combat breaks will be filled with you either aiding your "correct" decisions or trying to correct your 'incorrect" decisions (regardless of whether or not they are paragon or renegade).



I think any resolution of what happens with Liara will also be subject to the same all encompassing finallity.

[jlb524]

Vicious wrote...

There's definetly worst choice out there. And the galaxy will have a SB, like it or not, may as well be someone who is somewhat moral and on your side.

Yes, this is a great point and very succinct.  I have nothing more to add to it.

[Hopefire]

My theory is that at some point in ME3, the Reapers will launch simultaneous attacks against Liara and The Illusive Man; Shepard will be in a Virmire-like situation where Shepard can only rescue one. Whichever one Shepard rescues will join the team as a crew-member, the other one will be taken by the Reapers and Indoctrinated.



Assuming Liara is saved, I can see a Renegade Shepard encouraging her to go back to being the Shadow Broker (with Shepard as her muscle) and I can see a Paragon Shepard encouraging her to go back to being an archeologist (with Shepard as her muscle... dig sites don't excavate themselves!).

[1490]

PD ORTA wrote...

1490 wrote...

PD ORTA wrote...

I was wondering when I'd see a thread like this. As I thought the exact same thing. I felt very uneasy as I watched Liara become The shadow broker. Liara has a very dark side to her. While she has Sheppard in her life keeping her honest, she'll be fine. But once sheppard's gone and Liara's the shadow broker with no huge quest (fighting the reapers) to keep her occupied, she will eventually become a threat.

With Liara the saying "Absolute power, corrupts absolutely" comes to mind.

Exactly, and that creates tension.  Any good story is built on suspense.  What good is watching an action movie if you have an absolute guarantee the main character won't get hurt or die?  There has to be a chance of failure to make success more satisfying.  I'd rather see a character conflict that have a guarantee that Liara will step down from the SB role easily.

I agree. Which is why I spared the Rachni queen, re-wrote the Geth and gave TIM the collector base, all risky choices that could come back and bite me on the ass. I just hope that as Liara's my LI, if at the end of ME3 she dumps me to remain the SB... I have the option of taking her out.
To spare the galaxy from evil Liara... not because she dumped me 

I have no doubt that a "happy ending" will at least be available for Shepard and his/her LI.  Bioware has shown that they are excellent at integrating fan desires and requests into their games (LotSB, for example, was one big fan service).  I just hope that there is an option to have a "bad ending," both to make the happy ending more of an accomplishment, and to give variety for successive playthroughs.

[ERJAK2]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Liara will definitely go to the darkside if she remains Shadow Broker. And she will want to remain the SB. Liara the archeologist would be in heaven building all these models with the information. It's her dream job.

I doubt she will go Darth Vader and conquer the galaxy; the SB is not that kind of person and runs things behind the scenes through favours and blackmail. Where the darkside comes in is when people try to mess with her: attempt to replace her, compete, fight back. She has shown herself to be ruthless and she will not show mercy when opposed.

She might not start at killing innocents to protect the exclusivity of her information, it just might be fighting off competitors or making sure that people pay their bills. But eventually she will turn into the old SB. She will have to or she won't be able to hold onto what she has and she seems to very much enjoy what she has.

I think LI Shepard can keep her honest. She will worry about what Shepard thinks. However, once Shepard's gone, Liara will be consumed by her role as the Shadow Broker.

 

So little faith in Liara. I think that once the reapers are done for she'll have a happily ever after with shepard and all their little blue children, using feron and long distance coms to pick up the slack for the cetury or so shep is still alive. Then she'll be a shadow broker who toes over the line of morally unjust.

[JamieCOTC]

jlb524 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Well, she put the Salarian, what'shisname, in harm's way and said she'd do it again to reach her goal.  Also, it didn't seem to bother her that the SB Mercs were still shooting up Illium. This is from the woman who felt (a little) sorry for Saren.  Honestly, I posted the Liaribastila thing as a joke, but there are some interesting simularities between Aribastilla and Liara.  In the end, I don't expect Liara to go evil, but she may become more like TIM, get the job done at any cost.  For Renegades, could be heaven on earth, but Liara and Paragons will butt heads.  Of that, I have no doubt. 

I admit that it's a concern that they will just rehash the old Aribastila fallen woman trope again, but I'm going to keep thinking positive for now.

If they do want to turn Liara into an old BW character, I hope they go more Silk Fox from Jade Empire (who was powerful, had a bit of a hardened edge to her, but uncorrupted) and less Aribastila.

Good. 

I also don't think it is an accident that Feron used to be an information broker too and could take over ... if Liara had other plans like ...

robtheguru wrote...

My sig is a spoiler for the Epic Paragon Ending

Hope you don't mind posting the image. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 17 septembre 2010 - 12:15 .

[jlb524]

I'm of the opinion that this was the reason Feron was kept alive in everyone's game. He can act as Liara's second in command, overseeing the business when Liara needs to be off doing other things.

[JamieCOTC]

Hopefire wrote...

My theory is that at some point in ME3, the Reapers will launch simultaneous attacks against Liara and The Illusive Man; Shepard will be in a Virmire-like situation where Shepard can only rescue one. Whichever one Shepard rescues will join the team as a crew-member, the other one will be taken by the Reapers and Indoctrinated.

Assuming Liara is saved, I can see a Renegade Shepard encouraging her to go back to being the Shadow Broker (with Shepard as her muscle) and I can see a Paragon Shepard encouraging her to go back to being an archeologist (with Shepard as her muscle... dig sites don't excavate themselves!).

Interesting scenario.  Pretty much a no-brainer for me. 

[1490]

jlb524 wrote...

I'm of the opinion that this was the reason Feron was kept alive in everyone's game. He can act as Liara's second in command, overseeing the business when Liara needs to be off doing other things.

I wouldn't be surprised if Liara stays as the Shadow Broker if you don't romance her, but if you do romance her, she will leave the position to Feron so she can be with you.  After all, Feron was also an information broker in the past.

[Merlin 47]

robtheguru wrote...

My sig is a spoiler for the Epic Paragon Ending

You mean that you're a Renegade Shepard Fan? lol


I never romanced Liara in Mass Effect.  Even though I didn't, I think as long as you go Paragon, she can be kept on the "straight and narrow".  I would certainly hope she doesn't "go evil", but I can see it as a possibility.  However, if she does fall, I'm going to have a difficult time bringing myself to take her down.

My Shepard at least will pass on going to digs with Liara.  He's got other plans....

[jlb524]

1490 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I'm of the opinion that this was the reason Feron was kept alive in everyone's game. He can act as Liara's second in command, overseeing the business when Liara needs to be off doing other things.

I wouldn't be surprised if Liara stays as the Shadow Broker if you don't romance her, but if you do romance her, she will leave the position to Feron so she can be with you.  After all, Feron was also an information broker in the past.

This is possible, though I wonder if she will re-assume the Shadow Broker postion after Shepard passes on?  She might.