16 réponses à ce sujet

[Toroi]

Okay, I've unshelved origins after a long break and planning a DA:O run (not awakenings).  My plan is to run Leliana (archer or dual wield, can't decide), Morrigan and Wynne as my main party members.  Probably switch out for the others now and again to do companion quests, of course.

With this, my character will be human warrior tank.  Not really into S&S, so figured I'd either go dual wield daggers and pump enough str. for massive armor, then pure dex for the defense or, alternatively, try to make a 2-hand tank.  Dual wield is a blast and does insane damage, but i really get tired of being knocked back and stunned all the time.  With 2-hander, that problem goes away, but I'd end up going mostly strength, so have a lot less armor and defense due to no shield.

Anyone made a 2-hand tank that was viable?  And how do you think it would stack up against a good dual wield tank?

[Elhanan]

2H is a lot of fun, and I prefer to DW as a Rogue. Not certain if the Tank tag would apply, but I was quite content with using Evon's & Wade's heavy mail combo; also helpful for stamina restoration. And in Awakening, you could add armor runes if desired.

[ezrafetch]

2H to tank every time. Indomitable, Indomitable, Indomitable. Immune to stuns AND knockdowns? Pass me the platter. Just pump max strength. You'll have enough threat management skills, AoE stuns/knockdowns of your own to tank like a champ. Speaking of that, I'd say Reaver + Champion/Templar. Templar if you're gunning for 100% spell resistance, or Champion if you're not. Both have AoE stuns/knockdowns so you're fine whichever route you go.

edit: Unlike Elhanan, I prefer to stick with massive armor sets for tanks since the armor type does factor in to threat, but it's because I'm usually lazy and don't auto-Taunt at the start of fights.  As long as you're proactive with your threat management, you're fine running whatever armor you want, really.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 16 septembre 2010 - 09:36 .

[Toroi]

Yeah, 2-hander is sounding good, admittedly. They tend to suck early on due to slow attack speed, but get better later on I think. And Indomitable is just good I think. I'll probably miss having shield wall like a S&S warrior, so would have to watch it when getting surrounded. Being flanked can mean dying fast, but that is the same for dual wield or 2-hander.



Should I pump willpower a bit, maybe? 2-hander needs to spam a lot of abilities and with massive armor, that could eat up your stamina pretty quickly.

[MZJin]

Toroi wrote...

Yeah, 2-hander is sounding good, admittedly. They tend to suck early on due to slow attack speed, but get better later on I think. And Indomitable is just good I think. I'll probably miss having shield wall like a S&S warrior, so would have to watch it when getting surrounded. Being flanked can mean dying fast, but that is the same for dual wield or 2-hander.

Should I pump willpower a bit, maybe? 2-hander needs to spam a lot of abilities and with massive armor, that could eat up your stamina pretty quickly.

Definitely play the build you want to. Keep in mind when you enter Awakenings you have the option to change your character to anything you want (completely, all skills, attribute points etc).

Two handed weapons can not match a dual wielding one in terms of damage per second (total damage), however you will have slightly less downtime due to Indomitable, but you will also likely die a lot more often due to low defense.

Never touch Willpower, you have Death Blow as a warrior and later Second Wind in Awakenings. Choose your armor wisely. If you give up a few armor in Massive, you can have nearly 0 fatigue with Wade's Dragon Scale Armor + Evon the Great's Mail.

PS. Being flanked is meaningless to a dex dual wielder, since nothing can hit you when your defense is 150+ in Origins, and 170+ in Awakenings.

Modifié par MZJin, 16 septembre 2010 - 10:49 .

[termokanden]

2-handers built for 100% strength actually end up with respectable DPS, but Haste is highly recommended to get the most out of it. I haven't directly compared my characters, but I was very surprised at how quickly my 2h warrior just tore through the bosses. I was expecting poor damage from reading these forums. But once you have decent gear and talents, that's just not the case.

2h-warriors will take plenty of damage, but the way you can control the battlefield is just incredible. AoE knockdowns + stuns on half your weapon attacks? Yes, it's pretty powerful. This control of the battlefield is also necessary to survive due to the low defense you'll have.

My personal opinion is that 2h-warriors are the most fun warriors to play. I wouldn't say they are less powerful than DW warriors as most people seem to think. Maybe it's true, but I experienced the opposite. I think most people who dislike 2h warriors probably either didn't focus enough on strength or never got to the point where you have enough talent points for it to work properly. It really is a bit difficult the first few levels.

Modifié par termokanden, 16 septembre 2010 - 11:37 .

[MZJin]

termokanden wrote...

2-handers built for 100% strength actually end up with respectable DPS, but Haste is highly recommended to get the most out of it. I haven't directly compared my characters, but I was very surprised at how quickly my 2h warrior just tore through the bosses. I was expecting poor damage from reading these forums. But once you have decent gear and talents, that's just not the case.

2h-warriors will take plenty of damage, but the way you can control the battlefield is just incredible. AoE knockdowns + stuns on half your weapon attacks? Yes, it's pretty powerful. This control of the battlefield is also necessary to survive due to the low defense you'll have.

My personal opinion is that 2h-warriors are the most fun warriors to play. I wouldn't say they are less powerful than DW warriors as most people seem to think. Maybe it's true, but I experienced the opposite. I think most people who dislike 2h warriors probably either didn't focus enough on strength or never got to the point where you have enough talent points for it to work properly. It really is a bit difficult the first few levels.

2H warriors are fine if you have the proper party support, especially haste stacking, but they can't do as much on their own.

Personally, I think Strength is not properly implemented in the game with Archery. Archery should be 50 Strength and 50 Dex, not 100% Dex. That would make using a bow more viable with a Strength based character and help make-up for some weaknesses.

[Yrkoon]

MZJin wrote...

termokanden wrote...

2-handers built for 100% strength actually end up with respectable DPS, but Haste is highly recommended to get the most out of it. I haven't directly compared my characters, but I was very surprised at how quickly my 2h warrior just tore through the bosses. I was expecting poor damage from reading these forums. But once you have decent gear and talents, that's just not the case.

2h-warriors will take plenty of damage, but the way you can control the battlefield is just incredible. AoE knockdowns + stuns on half your weapon attacks? Yes, it's pretty powerful. This control of the battlefield is also necessary to survive due to the low defense you'll have.

My personal opinion is that 2h-warriors are the most fun warriors to play. I wouldn't say they are less powerful than DW warriors as most people seem to think. Maybe it's true, but I experienced the opposite. I think most people who dislike 2h warriors probably either didn't focus enough on strength or never got to the point where you have enough talent points for it to work properly. It really is a bit difficult the first few levels.

2H warriors are fine if you have the proper party support, especially haste stacking, but they can't do as much on their own.

  What?   Sure they can.   They do amazing on their own, thanks to their  CC and AOE skills and their immunities.


Also....

MZJin wrote...


Two handed weapons can not match a dual wielding one in terms of damage per second (total damage),

DPS and total damage are 2 completely different things.  No melee warrior  style beats a 2-hander in the latter.  Especially in Awakening.

but you will also likely die a lot more often due to low defense

Speak for yourself?  When my  warriors  have low defense, I like to compensate by  giving them high armor ratings,  so the damage they take  in melee is minimized to practically nothing.  The result is that they  don't die often, if at all.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 septembre 2010 - 12:04 .

[termokanden]

2h warriors are supposed to be continuously controlling everything around them with stuns and knockdowns. If you're taking loads of damage, odds are you're not using your skills enough.

[MZJin]

Yrkoon wrote...

MZJin wrote...

termokanden wrote...

2-handers built for 100% strength actually end up with respectable DPS, but Haste is highly recommended to get the most out of it. I haven't directly compared my characters, but I was very surprised at how quickly my 2h warrior just tore through the bosses. I was expecting poor damage from reading these forums. But once you have decent gear and talents, that's just not the case.

2h-warriors will take plenty of damage, but the way you can control the battlefield is just incredible. AoE knockdowns + stuns on half your weapon attacks? Yes, it's pretty powerful. This control of the battlefield is also necessary to survive due to the low defense you'll have.

My personal opinion is that 2h-warriors are the most fun warriors to play. I wouldn't say they are less powerful than DW warriors as most people seem to think. Maybe it's true, but I experienced the opposite. I think most people who dislike 2h warriors probably either didn't focus enough on strength or never got to the point where you have enough talent points for it to work properly. It really is a bit difficult the first few levels.

2H warriors are fine if you have the proper party support, especially haste stacking, but they can't do as much on their own.

  What?   Sure they can.   They do amazing on their own, thanks to their  CC and AOE skills and their immunities.


Also....

MZJin wrote...


Two handed weapons can not match a dual wielding one in terms of damage per second (total damage),

DPS and total damage are 2 completely different things.  No melee warrior  style beats a 2-hander in the latter.  Especially in Awakening.

but you will also likely die a lot more often due to low defense

Speak for yourself?  When my  warriors  have low defense, I like to compensate by  giving them high armor ratings,  so the damage they take  in melee is minimized to practically nothing.  The result is that they  don't die often, if at all.

DPS adds up to total damage within a given period of time. It is most useful for lots of weaker enemies and even more so for focusing on stronger enemies. The only time large amounts of slow damage is useful is when the you can instantly kill high HP enemies... which only an Archer can do. The 2-hander warrior basically sits behind the Archer and Dual Wielder in damage respects.

Crowd control and AOE is completely irrelevent in the context of Awakenings. There are no crowds worth more than 1 or 2 whirlwinds and rarely more than 1 Scattershot. There are only single enemies that die either fast with an Archer, fairly quickly with a dual wielder, or ... quick but not as quick with a Two-Hander.

All in the consideration of Nightmare difficulty of course.

But... 2-handers are fun their own sort of way... better than S&S for sure.

[termokanden]

This topic is about Origins though, or that's what the OP said. There 2h warriors deal more damage than archers. I'm also noticing that although I tried to optimize my DW warrior and DW rogue quite a bit, my 2h warrior STILL killed bosses quicker. Not normal enemies, but bosses.



In Awakening it's true that archers go from being weak to completely overpowered. My rogue currently has something like 87% chance to crit and hasn't even gathered the best gear yet. I'm also one-shotting a lot of the easier enemies.

[Kernel Cinders]

Noble D0rf Warrior 2H is my preferred main, even before I found out Gorim was in Denerim. lol

For spec I get Berserker and Reaver. Champion is great for trash, but in some of the tougher fights they resist a lot, and I use Morrigan for CC. Hell I've actually *kited* with Morrigan in one of the Brecilian Forest Reaver fights. lol

I agree with Yrkoon's statement regarding Armor Rating. My characters are going to get hit, so having as much Armor as I can get is pretty important for my entire team.

My own setup consists of my main (2H), Alistair (Tank), Leliana (Archer), and Morrigan (DD/CC). If you're going to grab Leliana, grab her when you're still Level 6 and she'll be Level 7. I didn't like what she had when I got her being Level 8, so I grabbed her and Sten before hitting Level 7.

Any combo will work, but some combos you'll have to be a bit more creative in tactics. Hell that's why I like this game. Hack 'n Slash type games bore me to tears.

My 2cp

Modifié par Kernel Cinders, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:43 .

[Kingdom of Steel]

2-handed warriors can also get flanking immunity by using the Griffon's Ensemble set.

[Yrkoon]

MZJin wrote...
 There are only single enemies that die either fast with an Archer, fairly quickly with a dual wielder, or ... quick but not as quick with a Two-Hander.

You're not thinking.

  In awakening, ALL warrior styles get Massacre.  which instantly ends all non-boss fights.  And as far as I know,   Massacre is not any faster when a dual-wielder activates it than it is when a 2-hander does.

Also, you've  apparently never used Onslaught.  That much is clear.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:38 .

[termokanden]

I believe Massacre is actually better with a 2-hander. I could be wrong, haven't played 2h much in Awakening. Just seems to me that a more damaging weapon will get more mileage out of it.

[Yrkoon]

Indeed. its damage is Strength & Weapon Damage based. Meaning a 2-hander with a 2-handed weapon will do more damage with it....   A lot more.  Hundreds more.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 septembre 2010 - 10:43 .

[ashwind]

Kingdom of Steel wrote...

2-handed warriors can also get flanking immunity by using the Griffon's Ensemble set.

 
2-H warriors hits everything around them... I mean destroy everything around them
Dead enemies cant flank - so you dont need Griffon's Ensemble for flank immunity