20 réponses à ce sujet

[AustrianAndI]

I'm a little confused by his philosophies.  why did he abandon the king?  Did he REALLY think that it was the best choice?  Or did he really just want the power?

I have beaten the game, I killed Loghain at the landsmeet, but I don't recall ever learning his true motives.  Can anyone clear this up?

[MightySword]

The shortway to explain it is that Loghain has the rationality of a mad man.

[Teshronesh]

You can learn his motives if you don't kill him...

[Ekardt]

He is actually a Grey Warden of the highest echelon (metaphorically speaking). He knew that, in the long run, letting that fool of a king die so he could rule would be better for Ferelden. And that wouldnt be possible if everyone thought the king died because of Loghain, so more or less the Grey Wardens were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and an easy target for the blame. Thats the general gist of what I gathered, anyway.

If you dont kill Loghain at landsmeet he can actually join your party by the way, at the sacrifice of Alistair running away. Loghain is my favorite character and one of the most bad**s characters ive seen in any movies/books/games in a while.

[MightySword]

Teshronesh wrote...

You can learn his motives if you don't kill him...

Yes I didn't kill him, but having him tell me doesn't make his rational any less incoherent.

[JamesX]

The King is a glory hog more concerned with his legacy than the ruling of his kingdom. While Loghain is not a good man, but I don't think the King is a good king either. He seems too idiotic to be a good king.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Cailan disobeyed Loghain's advice about not going to fight the darkspawn. He killed the king to have his own way, so he could then prepare Ferelden against... Orlais.

[Jokeblaze]

-spoiler-





















I killed him, I needed alistair to be king. because when I rescued the queen and faced arest I first said "its not what it looks like"...."tell her anora!" and she goes "THANK GOD YOUR HERE, THIS BLANGAURD KIDNAPPED ME"



but I really loved the response to that



"what?"

"you ****!!"

and my personal favorite

"uh oh"



so that as well as when she spoke out against me in the lands meet I knew what had to be done. and besides he made one hell of a speach.

[Curry Noodles]

His stated rationale is that he didn't believe it was an actual blight, and that it was a bigger risk to have armies from Orlais traipsing around Ferelden.



I personally was hoping there would be something a lot more interesting to it than that. For instance, that from the vantage point of his army he could see that the battle was already hopelessly lost, and that he was trying to preserve whatever forces were left. In lothering one of his men mentions something like that, so I was hoping it was the truth to make the situation a bit more muddy. I figured he had been blaming the grey wardens because it sounds really bad for him to publicly condemn the king for being a moron, so he pinned it on a group of people he thought were all dead.

[AtomZero]

He really was a like-able character in the books, and quite sensible, so to see him as a mad-man that would betray his best friends son at the cost of his life, just seemed so out-of-character compared tot he Loghain in the books, that I was literally shocked. I really wanted to find something redeeming about his decision, but it seems he really was just either:



A. Paranoid about Orlesian forces in Ferelden, based on an irrational hate of them.

B. Thought he was doing what was best for Ferelden by getting rid of Cailin.

C. Had gone mad and power hungry in his old age and was grasping for more.

D. All of the above.



****SPOILER****



Although, Flemeth did say to Maric that Loghain would betray him.. each time worse than the last...

He slept with Rowan, got Maric to kill the elf he had loved, and then left Maric's son to die....

I wonder if all those count, hmm?

[Curry Noodles]

Well, if you talk to Loghain in camp he makes it pretty clear he was never interested in the throne; he had always intended Anora to remain as Queen. He also points out he's had a number of opportunities to seize the throne in the past and never has, so I don't think it actually had anything to do with power.



So it's probably A or B. Given what he says in camp mostly A, I think.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Loghain has always been irrational towards Orlais, even in the books.



The Calling spoilers:

He assaulted the Circle Tower solely because the first enchanter was an Orlesian and he "knew" he would betray Maric. He didn't know Maric was there; he didn't have any proof that the enchanter was acting against Maric. He just decided to assault the tower on a hunch and happened to be extremely fortunate in his timing.



So it isn't "surprising" what he did in the game, not to me it wasn't, at least. Even in the first book you can clearly tell that he never got over what happened to his mother. He was always hell-bent on stopping Orlais at any cost.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Curry Noodles wrote...

Well, if you talk to Loghain in
camp he makes it pretty clear he was never interested in the throne; he
had always intended Anora to remain as Queen. He also points out he's
had a number of opportunities to seize the throne in the past and never
has, so I don't think it actually had anything to do with power.

So it's probably A or B. Given what he says in camp mostly A, I think.

He never had to seize the throne. He's been strong-arming the throne since Maric's rule. It was said in the game that Cailan's insistence on fighting the darkspawn was pretty much the first time Loghain's advice was refused. It seems to me that Loghain did want power, he just had no need to take the actual throne for himself. When the king wouldn't let him have his way, he killed him so he could have it.

[AustrianAndI]

I was really hoping for some dark secret deal that Loghain had made, maybe with the darkspawn or something, to kill the king. Or maybe he had secretly been a mage and possessed by a demon or something crazy like that and he was just lying the entire game about being concerned of other thing... Oh well.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Loghain has always been irrational towards Orlais, even in the books.

Not irrational. Exagerrated perhaps. But his hatred is not baseless or irrational.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 novembre 2009 - 09:47 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I think assaulting the Circle Tower solely because the first enchanter was Orlesian is very irrational.
The first enchanter didn't rape his mother.

I guess irrational is a judgment call.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 11 novembre 2009 - 09:52 .

[Curry Noodles]

 Well, in the game, it says that it's Anora who's been ruling the country, not Loghain or Cailan.  I don't know if there's some insight in the books, since I haven't read them, but the game makes it pretty clear that Anora is the one who is influencing Cailan's decisions. 

[Necrophantasia]

His motives were actually quite simple and I was amazed at how it all made sense after the game finally gave me a chance to talk to him and force a change in perspective. He went from evil evil character that I wanted vengeance against to someone that I actually felt for.



Loghain isn't lying when he says he loves Ferelden with everything he has. He fought tooth and nail to liberate Fereldan from the Orlesians. However, Cailan was insistent that he wanted to bring the armies of all the countries of the world together to oppose the blight. Loghain feared that this would bring about yet another Orlesian occupation, and on this point Cailan would not listen to him. This is also partially because Cailan never ever lived the harsh life style that his father and Loghain did (how bad it was is fully explained in the codex entries). Essentially Loghain fully believed that Ferelden alone was enough to stop the blight, but Cailan had to be removed because he was leading the nation into ruin. The Grey Wardens were just the convenient scape goat because they were fighting beside the king at the time.



Loghain fully believes that his ends justifies his means. This includes paying for soldiers using elf slaves, holding other nobles in line through hostages or other means, and even worse all in the name of rallying all of the otherwise quarrelsome Bannorn together for the sake of fighting the blight. Remember, before Loghain and Maric the Bannorn as a mess of clans who fought civil wars for the dumbest reasons including elopements, apple trees, and some other things listed in the codex. If you're roleplaying as a pragmatic Grey Warden, you might actually find some of the decisions you make are in line with what Loghain is doing.



I hope that helps

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Curry Noodles wrote...

 Well, in the game, it says that it's Anora who's been ruling the country, not Loghain or Cailan.  I don't know if there's some insight in the books, since I haven't read them, but the game makes it pretty clear that Anora is the one who is influencing Cailan's decisions. 

Cailan isn't a ruler in the books, so all that is based on his strong-arming Maric.  He spends the vast majority of his time in Denerim, completely ignoring his wife and daughter in Gwaren. Why would he do that if not because he thought he needed to be there to "advise" the king and make sure he was doing what Loghain wanted?
The game says that he was still up to that with Cailan. It might have been Anora who said it (I don't remember exactly), but someone said that Cailan's insistence to fight the darkspawn was pretty much the only time Cailan defied Loghain's wishes. That pretty strongly implies that Loghain was still up to his normal tricks with Cailan, regardless of Anora's ability to rule as well.

[AtomZero]

Necrophantasia wrote...
Loghain fully believes that his ends justifies his means. This includes paying for soldiers using elf slaves, holding other nobles in line through hostages or other means, and even worse all in the name of rallying all of the otherwise quarrelsome Bannorn together for the sake of fighting the blight. Remember, before Loghain and Maric the Bannorn as a mess of clans who fought civil wars for the dumbest reasons including elopements, apple trees, and some other things listed in the codex.

I just want to clarify, that the Bannorn were indeed united (sort-of) during Marics and Loghains lives, though under the orlesian occupation. It was actually Marics grandfather (I think? dont know how far back) who brought the bannorn and warring teyrns into line when he united Fereldon, the first of the Theiren kings... and I can't remember his name.. ha

[Maria Caliban]

Because he's an idiot blinded by his own prejudices and obsessive need for control.