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[Incantatar]

I remember many years ago a member in our D&D group told me how he couldn't stand BG after reaching the Underdark. He was angry about it's treatment of the FR.
I read much about and played much in the FR since then but still don't get what exactly he meant. I'm no Candlekeep sage though.

What's your opinion about Baldur's Gate's implementation of the FR setting?

[Sparky The Barbarian]

BG doesn't butcher FR lore any more than the novels do. There are some things that work well in a PNP environment that don't work as well in a larger story, be it a game or novel.



There are some limitations due to the game engine and disk space. Drow don't cast Faerie Fire, levitation, or globe of darkness. Nothing clickable flies.



Overall I felt BG did a good job of representing the FR.



In FR Lore Liches are extremely rare. In Athkatla it seems every district has to have one.

[Cowboy_christo]

Sparky The Barbarian wrote...

BG doesn't butcher FR lore any more than the novels do. There are some things that work well in a PNP environment that don't work as well in a larger story, be it a game or novel.

There are some limitations due to the game engine and disk space. Drow don't cast Faerie Fire, levitation, or globe of darkness. Nothing clickable flies.

Overall I felt BG did a good job of representing the FR.

In FR Lore Liches are extremely rare. In Athkatla it seems every district has to have one.

For the drow thing im pretty sure i saw a mod that added these spell(except levitation) to drow. And yeah Liches are around every corner in Athkatla -.-

[Seagloom]

In terms of capturing the feel of the Forgotten Realms, I think Baldur's Gate did okay. It excelled in some areas and faltered in others. In terms of comparing it to PnP lore, it's pretty bad. The Cowled Wizards for example are drastically different in BG2 than they are in PnP. There is also a named Cowled Wizard NPC who is an epic level ancient necromancer that swapped bodies with an elf. She appears in BG2 as a pushover during the last fight with the Cowled Wizards after casting arcane spells as an unlicensed mage. The Shadow Thieves are far off in ways too. BG2's plot also has a tendency to confuse the Abyss with the Nine Hells and fails to differentiate demons and devils pre-ToB. Watcher's Keep was the only area to get that right. Those are the big discrepancies anyway. There is a slew of minor stuff that isn't worth mentioning.

I love the game too much to care though. The BG series is just *that* good. The Cowled Wizard bit did miff me once upon a time, but I'll take a great game over adherence to lore any day.

Modifié par Seagloom, 17 septembre 2010 - 01:29 .

[HoonDing]

Athkatla is one giant theme park. Liches, demilich, vampires, beholders, illithids, the Twisted Rune... It's surprising one doesn't get to kill a greater deity.

[Flamedance]

virumor wrote...

Athkatla is one giant theme park. Liches, demilich, vampires, beholders, illithids, the Twisted Rune... It's surprising one doesn't get to kill a greater deity.

Well, some mods rectify that problem. Install mods like the Planar Sphere mod, Darkest Day and Shadows over Soubar and you get to fight Vecna, Lolth and Grazz't (demon prince). All of which happily butcher FR lore for the sake of a good fight:P

[Humanoid_Taifun]

virumor wrote...

Athkatla is one giant theme park. Liches, demilich, vampires, beholders, illithids, the Twisted Rune... It's surprising one doesn't get to kill a greater deity.

Are a minor deity, a demon prince and several halfgods not enough to you?

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 17 septembre 2010 - 08:38 .

[HoonDing]

One cannot be blamed for wanting to kill Cyric.

Sparky The Barbarian wrote...

In FR Lore Liches are extremely rare. In Athkatla it seems every district has to have one.

Unless one happens to stumble into the Warlock's Crypt, where Larloch has an entire army of liches (and a couple of demiliches) to protect himself.

Modifié par virumor, 17 septembre 2010 - 10:24 .

[Chebby]

Well what was important to me is that the presentation was something deserving of the realms. There were a lot of things that made me, somebody who isn't necessarily a huge FR brainiac (I've never honestly played PnP, I just know about it) raise an eyebrow in concern, mainly spelling errors and such that can confuse newcomers, but heck, they were in the novels. If I'd read the Drizzt books before becoming familiar with the Realms I'd swear that 'Tempos' was a god.

[Cirexius]

virumor wrote...

Athkatla is one giant theme park. Liches, demilich, vampires, beholders, illithids, the Twisted Rune... It's surprising one doesn't get to kill a greater deity.

But we're talking about Forgotten Realms, no? Where innkeepers are level 16 wizards, majors are level 22 paladins and thugs level 9 thieves.

I think Eberron got it right...

[HoonDing]

Cirexius wrote...

But we're talking about Forgotten Realms, no? Where innkeepers are level 16 wizards, majors are level 22 paladins and thugs level 9 thieves.

At least it wasn't as bad as MOTB, with epic gnolls & a badger telthor that was the hardest enemy in the game.

[Incantatar]

They even toned some NPCs down. In the 1ed FRCS the dukes of Baldur's Gate Lia Jannath was a lvl16 M-U and Belt a lvl 17 Fighter. Btb they would have killed the Doppelgangers and Sarevok in a heartbeat.

[HoonDing]

Mhm I've never even managed to keep Lia alive. She just stands there getting owned.

[Incantatar]

I think she has a dagger though . Use a Chaos scroll next time, usually >90% of the DG will be affected.

[Chebby]

virumor wrote...

At least it wasn't as bad as MOTB, with epic gnolls & a badger telthor that was the hardest enemy in the game.

Despite that, at least MOTB was a lot better than the OC. I'm prepared to put lore aside when presentation jumps a lot further. However, I was kind of unsure about some of the more brave things they did... You probably know what I'm talking about.

[HoonDing]

The silliest thing, though... with the 'right' build (monk/sacred fist multiclass, weapon master with a certain falchion, etc) you could tear everything up really quickly anyway.

[jaxsbudgie]

I stopped playing Mask of the Betrayer the moment they brought in that silly spirit bar. Should I bother starting again, is it actually worth it? Last time I did play it was a few years ago though .... I hate things that constrain gameplay for me.

[HoonDing]

I only play good characters so it was easy for me to by-pass the spirit meter using the Suppress mechanic, but for evil players that devour incessantly, it actually leads to very interesting gameplay as one gets spirit powers one doesn't get otherwise (including one that lets one to insta-kill any living being)).

Modifié par virumor, 21 septembre 2010 - 05:45 .

[Chebby]

The spirit bar feels unwelcome at first but it's not difficult in the slightest. If anything it just means you aren't resting around each and every corner. Besides, spirits and undead are everywhere.

[Flamedance]

I thought MotB actually had quite a few good moments. Far, far better than the oc which was boring as hell (bad guy wants to conquer/destroy the world, noble hero tries to stop him, *yawn*). .

[Seagloom]

I think that was a popular misconception about FR. It was bemusing that WotC's writers went to great lengths to dispel this sentiment until one day they decided it was easier to raze the setting. I like Eberron fine, but I'm not happy that FR had its continuity distorted so it could be another flavor of Eberron in 4e.



Mask of the Betrayer is definitely worth playing. It was a great expansion and one of the better D&D based adventures. To be blunt, the story and character interaction tops BG2 for me. Granted, MotB is newer game with a higher word count for party members so it's hardly a surprise. It doesn't feel as epic as BG2 though due to the personal nature of the plot and its short length. BG2 is still the better overall game. The spirit meter is manageable once you get the hang of it. It's a bit more troublesome if you play an evil spellcaster, but if you go for a good caster or any class that doesn't rely on an abilities per day mechanic, it's insanely easy to deal with. That said, there is also a way to disable it completely with a console command if you just want to play without the added burden.

[Flamedance]

Yeah, loved the dialogue with Myrkul, for instance. Really top class writing, imo.

[Quixal]

MotB High Points:

dialogue with Myrkul

the effort put into all the party members, even the one I didn't like

its more personal story



MotB Low Points:

epic gnolls

an ending that was clearly prevented from being natural due to preservation of setting

epic gnolls

poor effort to play the part of sequel to the OC

epic gnolls

[Seagloom]

The epic gnolls were pretty bad, yep. Considering how large a percentage of gnolls there are in Thay, it's a wonder the Red Wizards haven't been toppled by them yet. That's a problem I had with Throne of Bhaal too. Well, not gnolls specifically. Rather, epic or near epic versions of normally lesser monsters. Another thing was the monty haul quality of both games. I remember finding thousands of gold in a dirt mound near Mulsantir. Still a great expansion though.

Modifié par Seagloom, 22 septembre 2010 - 05:27 .

[jaxsbudgie]

Seagloom wrote...
That said, there is also a way to disable it completely with a console command if you just want to play without the added burden.

Now this, I did not know. Tempting .... but I have uni work to be getting on with, eurgh.

Regarding the epic gnolls, have the modding community released a fixpack or something that adjusts MotB for the better?