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You don't need DA: Orgins to play DA2


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#26
Aradace

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Lord_Valandil wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Good thing we dont "need" DA:O for DA2 because I sold my copy a couple months after I got it...Why? No NG+. Since I know David is peeking in on this, can you at LEAST tell me if there's going to be a NG+ option this time around? lol. And before anyone pipes in with "I dont want a NG+...." let me remind you that much like any other game that has a NG+ feature, you dont HAVE to use it. It's there for the people who WANT to use it. Those that dont, just select a normal new game. :)


You'll just use any excuse to push NG+, won't you.


Hell yea lol....Seriously, it wouldnt hurt anyone if it was implemented.  Those that wanted to use it could...Those that didnt, they just start a fresh game as usual (ala DA:O).  If you people are asking for babies in DA2, I want a sodding NG+ option Image IPB


And I want Nug Bombs, but alas, we cannot get all that we want.


Yea but the difference in our requests is that mine is actually win win for everyone and is sensible lol.  Seriously though, what would it hurt to add it? 

#27
heretica

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what's NG+?

#28
Kevin Lynch

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NG+, the idea of starting a new game with the character that finished a previous game (so they are high-level) is good for those that like to continue to push their character to the maximum (if I'm thinking of NG+ the same way as others). The unfortunate side-effect is that it can get boring very quickly if there's nothing new about that game in terms of character development (no room to grow), new loot, new options, new opponents, etc. If it has to be different, then it's going to be a lot of extra development time to rebalance for a high-level play through, too. Not sure if I'd be interested in that, even if some would be.

Perhaps those that like the idea can comment why it'd be good and what you'd need to make it so.

Modifié par Kevin Lynch, 17 septembre 2010 - 09:17 .


#29
Guest_jonv1234_*

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Kevin Lynch wrote...

NG+, the idea of starting a new game with the character that finished a previous game (so they are high-level) is good for those that like to continue to push their character to the maximum (if I'm thinking of NG+ the same way as others). The unfortunate side-effect is that it can get boring very quickly if there's nothing new about that game in terms of character development (no room to grow), new loot, new options, new opponents, etc. If it has to be different, then it's going to be a lot of extra development time to rebalance for a high-level play through, too. Not sure if I'd be interested in that, even if some would be.

Perhaps those that like the idea can comment why it'd be good and what you'd need to make it so.


I agree that balancing the gameplay is important. If your character is so powerful that you blow through enemies like nothing, then you will get bored very quickly. The novelty of beheading monsters with no danger to ones self grows thin quickly. Once a player gets to the end of Awakening, the character might be level 30. Max is 35, so unless DA 2 puts in new levels and skill talent schools to make them worthwhile, enemies and players will soon be stuck at a level with no room to grow, notwithstanding loot or whatever.

#30
Demx

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David Gaider wrote...

It's a different hero/heroine with the story taking place primarily in a different land-- that said, what it primarily means is that if you don't import a game a "default" story state will be chosen, nothing more.


Could you tell us what the "default" story state you guys picked for DA2?

#31
Rubbish Hero

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You don't need Mass Effect to play Mass Effect 2. You don't need Baldurs Gate to play Baldurs Gate 2. If they made it a requirement, be pretty bad design decision as well as cutting off $$$.

#32
Dave of Canada

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Kevin Lynch wrote...

Perhaps those that like the idea can comment why it'd be good and what you'd need to make it so.


*Apologies if I'm not coherant, today has been a bad day and I'm exausted / frustrated. Hopefully it'll come across reasonably instead of just rambling*

I'm a fan of New Game+ because it let's me keep slaughtering enemies on my "main" toons instead of limiting me. For example, once I beat Origins and had everything set up to be fine and dandy there was nothing left for me to kill or do. If I wanted to replay, I'd need to restart a new character and go through the same process. I've beaten ME1/ME2 a lot of times with my "main", if only because it provided me different approaches to earlier battles and such.

That and if say... I play my Soldier in one playthrough to be on the defensive, I can just play new game+ and respec him on the offensive and experience the whole game on the offensive without releveling up / regearing / refarming and such. Same could be said for DA:O, if I wanted my Rogue to be an archer near the final fight I'd need to respec him late in the game and then get to use my Archer-Rogue for a fight or two before running out of enemies to kill. If I want to be an archer for the whole game, I'm required to restart.

#33
HTTP 404

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Gerudan wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Does anyone know what the default story will be? will it be the warden taking the US? would it be Alistair as King?

That could be our canon story folks.


Does it really matter that much? 

Honestly, I think the DA-Team just wanted to avoid all the complex narrative and decisions structures the ME-Team now has to build-in into ME3.

You can't really blame them for that, I think. A lot of resources for ME 3 will be consumed by implement all the different choices, Sheppard has or hasn't made during ME 1 and 2, so you will see only a little part of the production value of ME3 with each playthrough. 

For example if they give the rachni queen a bigger role in ME3, you'll never see it, if you killed her in ME1 and every writing, graphic, voiceover etc that was invested into her, will be lost to you. In the end the ME-Team has to invest a lot of money into content, that only a part of the players will ever see (at least if they implement the choices in a descent way) and that is something you normally doesn't want as a developer. 


Nah it really doesnt matter just a curiousity.  Image IPB  I support this being a whole new game any way, its refreshing to play a new character and if there was a DA3, I hope that too is a new character.

#34
Rubbish Hero

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I think the idea of having your character influence the world in the coming game without actually playing the character in continuation sounds more appealing and will most likely be more effective than "hey, it's you, Shepard again, welcome back to a place like but not middle earth".


#35
Bryy_Miller

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Rubbish Hero wrote...

I think the idea of having your character influence the world in the coming game without actually playing the character in continuation sounds more appealing and will most likely be more effective than "hey, it's you, Shepard again, welcome back to a place like but not middle earth".


Everyone, quickly! He took his pills! World is ending! ;)

#36
Bullets McDeath

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Rubbish Hero wrote...

I think the idea of having your character influence the world in the coming game without actually playing the character in continuation sounds more appealing and will most likely be more effective than "hey, it's you, Shepard again, welcome back to a place like but not middle earth".


What the f--k did you just say? Try to speak English, I can't make heads or tales of this nonsense. Herp derp.

#37
Homebound

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So...Whats the "default" Warden story?

#38
Bullets McDeath

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Just_mike wrote...

So...Whats the "default" Warden story?


Darkspawn Chronicles.

I kid, I kid. Something tells me the devs will be tight-lipped about this. Seems very much like something that could stll be fluid until the very last moment.

#39
Gill Kaiser

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soundchaser721 wrote...

I'm interested to know the extent of this import feature. The fact that you don't need Origins to play DA2 has me worried all we'll get is basically some fill in the blanks, like insert name of dwarven/human kings here and not really have an impact on anything. I know its a new protagonist in a new setting, but I'd like to see the impact my choices had, and not just vague references to establish that the first game happened and nothing more.

This doesn't really bother me that much, considering the setting has changed. If the connections aren't particularly in-depth, it won't be NEARLY as egregious as it seemed with the Mass Effect -> Mass Effect 2 transition (which personally I didn't have a problem with).

The reason being that whilee the Mass Effect series is a single story about a single character that just happens to be split into a trilogy, the DA series is multiple stories within the same setting.

#40
Gill Kaiser

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outlaworacle wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I think the idea of having your character influence the world in the coming game without actually playing the character in continuation sounds more appealing and will most likely be more effective than "hey, it's you, Shepard again, welcome back to a place like but not middle earth".


What the f--k did you just say? Try to speak English, I can't make heads or tales of this nonsense. Herp derp.

What are you talking about? His post makes perfect grammatical sense. Did you perchance miss a couple of reading lessons at school?

#41
Dave of Canada

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The "default" will probably have no holes in it for the player who didn't play DA:O to explore. I could see something like...

Zathrian and the Dalish alive.

Mages killed.

King Harrowmont.

Redcliffe destroyed with either Connor / Isolde dead.

Queen Anora / King Alistair (either, though I'm leaning on Anora)

Ultimate Sacrifice.


#42
Bullets McDeath

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Gill Kaiser wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I think the idea of having your character influence the world in the coming game without actually playing the character in continuation sounds more appealing and will most likely be more effective than "hey, it's you, Shepard again, welcome back to a place like but not middle earth".


What the f--k did you just say? Try to speak English, I can't make heads or tales of this nonsense. Herp derp.

What are you talking about? His post makes perfect grammatical sense. Did you perchance miss a couple of reading lessons at school?


You've obviously never encountered Rubbish Hero before. He is the guy who starts 11 threads a day about how "Bioware should Lord of the Rings my salsa dinner with a side of Mode 7 style FPS derka derka derka"

Don't let it trouble you.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 18 septembre 2010 - 12:39 .


#43
Dr. wonderful

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Lord_Valandil wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Good thing we dont "need" DA:O for DA2 because I sold my copy a couple months after I got it...Why? No NG+. Since I know David is peeking in on this, can you at LEAST tell me if there's going to be a NG+ option this time around? lol. And before anyone pipes in with "I dont want a NG+...." let me remind you that much like any other game that has a NG+ feature, you dont HAVE to use it. It's there for the people who WANT to use it. Those that dont, just select a normal new game. :)


You'll just use any excuse to push NG+, won't you.


Hell yea lol....Seriously, it wouldnt hurt anyone if it was implemented.  Those that wanted to use it could...Those that didnt, they just start a fresh game as usual (ala DA:O).  If you people are asking for babies in DA2, I want a sodding NG+ option Image IPB


And I want Nug Bombs, but alas, we cannot get all that we want.


And I wanted fist fighting....

#44
MKDAWUSS

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jonv1234 wrote...

Kevin Lynch wrote...

NG+, the idea of starting a new game with the character that finished a previous game (so they are high-level) is good for those that like to continue to push their character to the maximum (if I'm thinking of NG+ the same way as others). The unfortunate side-effect is that it can get boring very quickly if there's nothing new about that game in terms of character development (no room to grow), new loot, new options, new opponents, etc. If it has to be different, then it's going to be a lot of extra development time to rebalance for a high-level play through, too. Not sure if I'd be interested in that, even if some would be.

Perhaps those that like the idea can comment why it'd be good and what you'd need to make it so.


I agree that balancing the gameplay is important. If your character is so powerful that you blow through enemies like nothing, then you will get bored very quickly. The novelty of beheading monsters with no danger to ones self grows thin quickly. Once a player gets to the end of Awakening, the character might be level 30. Max is 35, so unless DA 2 puts in new levels and skill talent schools to make them worthwhile, enemies and players will soon be stuck at a level with no room to grow, notwithstanding loot or whatever.


Well, I was hoping that the max level would be 100. Anyone remember those days?

#45
AbsolutGrndZer0

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Marzillius wrote...

This is fine. Dragon Age II is not a direct sequel.

However, it should have been impossible to play Mass Effect 2 without having played Mass Effect 1 first in my opinion.


No company would ever do that, it would be bad for business. Mass Effect 2 is not a expansion, it's a sequel.  Requiring you to have played and finished and still have previous saves floating around would not be good.

#46
PsyrenY

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Kevin Lynch wrote...

NG+, the idea of starting a new game with the character that finished a previous game (so they are high-level) is good for those that like to continue to push their character to the maximum (if I'm thinking of NG+ the same way as others). The unfortunate side-effect is that it can get boring very quickly if there's nothing new about that game in terms of character development (no room to grow), new loot, new options, new opponents, etc. If it has to be different, then it's going to be a lot of extra development time to rebalance for a high-level play through, too. Not sure if I'd be interested in that, even if some would be.

Perhaps those that like the idea can comment why it'd be good and what you'd need to make it so.


Very well. A short list:

1) Immersion: The number one consideration is that you're supposed to be a legend. In Mass Effect (both installments) you are told that your Shepard is a hero; he was capable of all kinds of nigh-superhuman feats of strength of skill that elevated him far above the common soldier or mercenary. Gameplay-wise, however, he could barely move a pencil with his biotics at the outset, and even as an infiltrator could barely hold his rifle steady. New Game+ actually lets you live up to the hype, enhancing immersion.

The same is true for Dragon Age. My mage passed his Harrowing and graduated from Apprenticehood despite only knowing two spells. Alistair has a single Templar skill when you meet him, yet somehow he is able to teach others how to become one. Leliana is a master bard who knows one song etc.

2) Common Ground: In a game with scaling enemies (Mass Effect, Dragon Age etc.) this gives us a clear baseline comparison for every build, gear, class and party combination for strategy purposes. This settles all the "Sleep is an awesome spell!" "You were only using it at level 10; past Lothering it sucks!" "Person B is right, don't waste points in it" disputes that arise on forums. You can try any build at all points of the game, rather than only being able to test them at specific points of the story.

3) Catharsis: Remember That One Boss that gave you so much trouble because he kept spawning minions? If only you knew any AoE spells back then that you could use to clear out the peanut gallery en masse, or a giant glyph you could slap down to keep them funneled in a nice chokepoint to your off-tank blender teammate. How about the time you had to escort that NPC and you kept running out of mana/stamina (you had no points in your passive skills yet, you see) and could only watch as he was minced, time and again?

Revisiting those hair-pullingly frustrating points of the game with a beefy PC isn't just fun, it's good game design. Yahtzee wrote an article on Revenge in RPGs that illustrates my point. (The first half of his article, anyway.) In a single-player story-based RPG, NG+ is the best way of providing that feeling of accomplishment, because often-times you just aren't able to revisit those early areas. Even if the enemies are scaled up to match you, theirs is a linear progression - yours is quadratic, because not only do you have more health and mana, you also have far more tactics available to you  via new spells, new talents etc.