15 réponses à ce sujet

[asaiasai]

I do not know if this idea has occured to anyone before i looked on the forums, but the search function is still hit or miss, and just what would someone tag this topic for easy retreval. This is not an anti-Morrigan thread but i may ask some questions that the Morrigan fans my not like, no attempt has been made to troll as i has not added the obligitory designator of bzzzzzzzz-ploop. Ths is just something i considered during my 21st character run through of the original DAO while imbibing in some stellar single malt a little farther than i had intended.

I am speaking of course about the dark ritual as offered by Morrigan to the player, this occured to me as i have 19 female characters for an alternative solution to the DR as currently provided by the story. The biggest trick was to find alternatives, euphamisms if you will, that are easily understandable yet still convey the idea in a manner that keeps the adult nature of the subject constrained.

The Dark ritual as presented involves from Morrigan's admission a guaranteed result in the conception of a child with the taint ineutero to facilitate the capture of the AD's soul. Morrigan provides a clean pool while the male warden provides tainted swimmers. According to the lore the wardens have an already low reproductive rate, which drops to practicaly zero when 2 wardens are involved. We also know that even in the most normal of circumstances conception for clean couples is never a guarantee. Basic science tells that the swimmers having arrived at "water world" have entered into a hostile environment with a high attrition rate, not all swimmers will make it to the pool.   

The DR probably involves an increased fertility in Morrigan and probably any or all of the following in regards to the swimmers, safe transportation, secure escort, increased vigor, in a sense magical invitro fertilization. So what we have is by magical intervention a guarantee of conception of a child who will bear the necessary taint to attract the soul of the old god upon the AD's death.

My question is why is the dark ritual only an alternative involving Morrigan as the childs mother when the female warden is able to provide all of the necessary requirements as her egg that will bear the taint. As such the female warden only needs clean swimmers and the same magical invetro fertilization provided by Morrigan's dark ritual to accomplish conception. 
 

Anyway just something to consider.
Asai
     

[Monica21]

Very interesting idea, and the only reason I can think that it wouldn't work for a female Warden (I mean, you are in Redcliffe Castle and Teagan is right there, for all the Teagan lovers ) is that even if the swimmers are clean, the body is still tainted. The child will still receive tainted blood via the umbilical cord, so the child won't be born free of the taint.

[rak72]

I think it CAN work the other way around, but Morigan wants the baby for herself and she knows the ritual. So being the way Morrigan is, she isn't sharing that knowledge unless she gets what she wants. If she actualy cared about the Warden as a friend, she would have bought it up way before the night of the battle and given you a chance to get new recruits, but she knows if you had more options, she wouldn't get her baby.

[Zjarcal]

I also think it could work. The problem is that Morrigan wouldn't offer her magic in that case.



@rak72:



Whatever you may think of Morrigan, she DOES care for the Warden as a friend.



In her own way...

[Monica21]

I'm still not sure how the child could be born free of the taint, which is the whole point of the ritual. And now I'm trying to figure out how Alistair was born without it. Tainted blood is tainted blood. If a Grey Warden does conceive, I have no idea what prevents the taint from being passed along.

[Herr Uhl]

1. She wants the baby.

2. You have not been trained by Flemeth for roughly 30 years.

3. Why would she let you conceive the baby when she doesn't want the father to even meet the baby.



It is more than merely taint that is needed. And the baby of a GW doesn't even get the taint, so there is more to it than a few incantations and then baby-time. It is probably not something that can be taught in one night.

[jpdipity]

Monica21 wrote...

I'm still not sure how the child could be born free of the taint, which is the whole point of the ritual. And now I'm trying to figure out how Alistair was born without it. Tainted blood is tainted blood. If a Grey Warden does conceive, I have no idea what prevents the taint from being passed along.

Alistair makes sense anyway since Fiona was cured of the taint after the unnaturally advanced stages of corruption rescinded.

I beleive Gaider stated that children of Wardens don't have the taint, but of course, I don't have the link and I could be mistaken.

In RL, children to parents of AIDS are often born without HIV; so, it does not seem all too far-fetched that a Warden child would not bear the taint.

In regards to the OP, I think is it possible, but Morrigan would refuse it - she wants the child for herself.  I would think that the same ritual or one similar to it would help the Warden have a child with Alistair to have an heir.

Modifié par jpdipity, 17 septembre 2010 - 04:41 .

[Herr Uhl]

Warden children do not have the taint.

David Gaider wrote...

A Grey Warden can have a child... just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen... and the child is not tainted in any fashion.

Insofar as how long a Grey Warden could remain on the throne, it depends. The taint will make a Grey Warden age faster, so someone like Loghain isn't going to be able to stay a Grey Warden for very long as he's no young man. The "thirty years" quote is about the maximum, but the reality is that it depends on how often one is exposed to the corruption and sometimes just personal variance-- even so, for a monarch to stay on the throne upwards of thirty years is no mean feat. I don't really think that's the limiting factor when it comes to this sort of thing.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 17 septembre 2010 - 04:43 .

[Reika]

The other thing is, probably to make the ritual work, one of the participants needs to be a mage, so if you're playing a non-mage female warden, which is pretty good odds, your Warden and Alistair aren't likely to be able to do the ritual alone.

[Brockololly]

As far as simply having the female Warden be able to do the DR without Morrigan, according to Sheryl Chee:

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Chaos_Brand wrote...

I've been thinking it over and I still don't get why the ritual had to take  place between Morrigan and a Grey Warden (aside from her desire for a  creepy old god child.) From what I heard, it seemed like all that was  needed was a fetus to absorb the taint. If that were the case, wouldn't a female PC be okay with performing the ritual too? There didn't seem to  be any crazy spell business going on.

Yes, there was crazy spell business. If you really pester Morrigan for details, she  will say that it is a blood magic ritual. She also says that this was  her whole purpose, to conceive a child with the soul of the old god.  Morrigan is not a charity, she's not going to help you do the ritual and let you have this baby so that you can save Alistair from the absolute horror of sleeping with a really good-looking woman with no strings attached. Wow. How awful.

So basically, the female Warden would have needed to get the DR spell out of Morrigan...yeah, not happening.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 septembre 2010 - 01:42 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I dunno. Forcing Morrigan to let a fem PC do it, then turn up after the kid's birth and spirit it away?



Sounds like a fun AU fanfic to me!

[Reika]

Brockololly wrote...

As far as simply having the female Warden be able to do the DR without Morrigan, according to Sheryl Chee:

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Yes, there was crazy spell business. If you really pester Morrigan for details, she  will say that it is a blood magic ritual. She also says that this was  her whole purpose, to conceive a child with the soul of the old god.  Morrigan is not a charity, she's not going to help you do the ritual and let you have this baby so that you can save Alistair from the absolute horror of sleeping with a really good-looking woman with no strings attached. Wow. How awful.

So basically, the female Warden would have needed to get the DR spell out of Morrigan...yeah, not happening.

For Alistair I'm pretty sure that sleeping with Morrigan was a nightmare when you consider how much the two of them actively despised one another. I suspect the only reason the two of them didn't try to kill each other was the fact the Warden would've been pissed. And I think it's pretty safe to say no matter what type of Warden a person played, that was someone you really didn't want to ****** off. 

And as much as Morrigan may have liked the Warden as a friend, it's not enough to cough up a secret like that.

[asaiasai]

The point is for the child to NOT be born free of the taint as is the case for the normal DR with Morrigans clean egg an tainted swimmers. The taint is necessary to attract the AD soul.

So the question is then how good of a friend is Morrigan to the Warden? From the replies here Morrigan is not what i would call a worth while friend if she is only interested in the ritual for her own reasons. In that case giving Morrigan her ritual is not what i would consider an alternative in any case then. 

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:06 .

[Reika]

How Morrigan reacts to a Warden I think really depends on how you interacted with her. I generally went with responses that acknowledged her POV but didn't always agree with them which she seemed to respond well too.



From the viewpoint of my Warden, I do believe Morrigan started out on the trip to get the OGB, but along the way really did learn a little bit about friendship and truly did want Marlana to live. I think she could care less about Alistair surviving, except his death would've shattered her friend.

[FutileSine]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Sounds like a fun AU fanfic to me!

Indeed!  Apparently I need to bump up my writing schedule.....

  

*whistles innocently before quickly clicking open a new word document and typing ferociously*

Edited to say:  Needless to say, I think this is a definite possibility...and I will say my own idea of how it can come about in....a few months once I get to that part in my story.  

Modifié par FutileSine, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[asaiasai]

I am happy to have created a topic to inspire the creative juices flowing i look foward to what you may have for us in the future.



Asai