135 réponses à ce sujet

[rca626]

rca626 wrote...

ResidentNoob wrote...

Something odd came up on mine.

Everyone was loyal, except  for Jack. All ship upgrades were purchased.

My hold-the-line group consisted of Zaeed, Legion, Samara, Tali, Mordin, Garrus, Jack and Kasumi.
(Took Miranda+Thane to final boss, Grunt escorted the crew, Jacob died by seeker swarm)
Jack died holding the line.

I decided to test it on the calculator, and it tells me that Mordin should have died instead of Jack, even though he was loyal and she was not.

Any ideas?

That is definitely a bug. I'll get to work on it and let you know when I've got it fixed. Thanks for pointing that out!

OK, that should be fixed in Version 1.6. Let me know if you find anything else. I really appreciate everybody's help (and patience) with this!

Modifié par rca626, 28 septembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Liec]

I'm not sure if this is an error, but I found that when there are only 3 characters plus Miranda available for 2nd FT leader and I pick anyone but Miranda, the program won't let me choose an escort. Shouldn't I be able to choose from 2 squadmates?

[rca626]

Liec wrote...

I'm not sure if this is an error, but I found that when there are only 3 characters plus Miranda available for 2nd FT leader and I pick anyone but Miranda, the program won't let me choose an escort. Shouldn't I be able to choose from 2 squadmates?

Sorry I didn't respond before now. That does sound like a bug. The game won't let you choose Miranda as an Escort, but after selecting a FT2 leader you should have two team members left besides Miranda (assuming she's still alive). It sounds like somehow I lost track of her when I removed her from the possible Escort list. I'll take a look at it. Can you post a screenshot?

[Elyvern]

You don't have to assume. Miranda, loyal or disloyal will always remain alive until the final fight against the human reaper. In which case, she'll die if she's disloyal and survive if she's loyal. That or she dies during the hold the line sequence (loyal or disloyal). She can't die no matter what you do prior to those two scenarios.

Modifié par Elyvern, 02 octobre 2010 - 12:30 .

[rca626]

Elyvern wrote...

You don't have to assume. Miranda, loyal or disloyal will always remain alive until the final fight against the human reaper. In which case, she'll die if she's disloyal and survive if she's loyal. That or she dies during the hold the line sequence (loyal or disloyal). She can't die no matter what you do prior to those two scenarios.

Quite true. Thanks for that.

Anyway, I think I have the problem fixed now. Try Version 1.7.

[Liec]

I'm still getting an error with the escort part. I can select an escort even though there are only 2 characters left after choosing the FT2 leader. 

Wuartz wrote...

Hmm, is it possible to skip a squadie? Because I'm trying to not recruit Samara, and I can't take her away from the list, so yeah.. :/

I was wondering about that as well. According to the Acael's guide Samara can die for not upgrading the shields under the right circumstances, but it doesn't seem possible to kill anyone below Garrus on the priority list using the calculator unless you were able to skip squadies. 

[rca626]

Liec wrote...

I'm still getting an error with the escort part. I can select an escort even though there are only 2 characters left after choosing the FT2 leader. 

Wuartz wrote...

Hmm, is it possible to skip a squadie? Because I'm trying to not recruit Samara, and I can't take her away from the list, so yeah.. :/

I was wondering about that as well. According to the Acael's guide Samara can die for not upgrading the shields under the right circumstances, but it doesn't seem possible to kill anyone below Garrus on the priority list using the calculator unless you were able to skip squadies. 

Sorry about that. I'll take a look at it again.

Modifié par rca626, 02 octobre 2010 - 02:45 .

[rca626]

Okay, I think I fixed it, but I have another quick question before I post a new version:

Pertaining to the alive/dead status of the escort and final boss squadmates, Ecael's guide says,

"2 or 3 alive = Go to [Hold the Line] score
1 alive = At least 1 from [Hold the Line] will survive, then go to Line score
0 alive, 2 or more holding the line = Go to [Hold the Line] score
0 alive, 1 still holding the line = [Death]"

The last instance would apply in this case. My question is, does [Death] mean the death of the single HTL squadmate? In the case that Liec just posted, the team members left after the Long Walk would be Garrus, Miranda, and Samara. If Garrus were left holding the line, his HTL score would be 3, which would mean he would survive (based on HTL score alone). But would he still die automatically if he were the only one holding the line? Or would he survive alone even though Samara and Miranda (and thus, Shepard) died?

Modifié par rca626, 02 octobre 2010 - 03:30 .

[Liec]

The way I see it, Garrus or anybody else would survive holding the line alone if there is only one other survivor, which could be the escort or one of the final boss squadmates. In that example, Samara and Miranda would die because they're unloyal and Garrus would die because there are no other squadmates left; but if Miranda and Samara were loyal then Garrus would survive because of his HTL score, however if you replaced Garrus with Mordin then he would die for not having enough points, but if only Miranda were loyal then he would survive <.<

Modifié par Liec, 02 octobre 2010 - 04:25 .

[rca626]

Version 1.8 is now available. Thanks for everybody's input!

[Pacifien]

In regards to HtL, unless you leave only unloyal Tier Fs (reference Ecael's guide), one person will always survive holding the line. If they're the only one who survived (no escort or final boss fight squadmate survived), then Joker will say no one made it back to the Normandy. But if an escort or final boss squadmate survived, then Joker will say all survivors made it back. You can see how this anomaly works by looking at some testing I did detailed in this post, particularly scenarios 1, 3, and 5 and who is and isn't shown on the final cinematic.

So yeah, Grunt might be climbing over a mountain of Collector bodies by himself, as the guy can hold the line by himself, but unless someone is as victorious as he was (at least one other squadmate survivor), Joker will say he didn't make it.

[rca626]

Pacifien wrote...

In regards to HtL, unless you leave only unloyal Tier Fs (reference Ecael's guide), one person will always survive holding the line. If they're the only one who survived (no escort or final boss fight squadmate survived), then Joker will say no one made it back to the Normandy. But if an escort or final boss squadmate survived, then Joker will say all survivors made it back. You can see how this anomaly works by looking at some testing I did detailed in this post, particularly scenarios 1, 3, and 5 and who is and isn't shown on the final cinematic.
So yeah, Grunt might be climbing over a mountain of Collector bodies by himself, as the guy can hold the line by himself, but unless someone is as victorious as he was (at least one other squadmate survivor), Joker will say he didn't make it.

So, in Liec's scenario, any of the three possible HTL team members (Samara, Miranda, or Garrus) would have survived holding the line by themselves, but Shepard would have bought it because his FB squadmates both died, correct? I think that's the way I coded the calculator initially, but changed it after reading the recent posts. That's why I asked what does [Death] mean in Ecael's 4th case (in this post)? Whose death are we talking about? Or was that an incorrect conclusion? It looks like I need to fix the code again, but before I do I just want to be clear on this.

Modifié par rca626, 03 octobre 2010 - 03:02 .

[Pacifien]

Death means Shepard. If there is neither an escort or final boss squadmate alive and only 1 from hold the line, Shepard dies.

For Liec's scenario, I don't know what happens once you get down to the bare minimum of squadmates. You'll have three for the biotic shield and one for the fireteam leader, which I suppose means it simply won't let you choose an escort. I haven't done this particular scenario myself, though. But from a gameplay perspective, you must have squadmates for the biotic shield, you must have a second fireteam leader, so if that's all you have (which is possible), then escort is a no-go.

Oh right, and if the second fireteam leader is the only one on that team, the leader will live irregardless of whether they were the right person for the job.

Modifié par Pacifien, 03 octobre 2010 - 03:28 .

[XX55XX]

Which .NET language did you write this in? Visual C++? C#?

[archurban]

well, that calculator is not always correct. my loyalty Legion for tech expert was failed, and died. can you explain this? I don't think. sometimes, it's random. it's not up to your little software.

[Pacifien]

archurban wrote...
well, that calculator is not always correct. my loyalty Legion for tech expert was failed, and died. can you explain this? I don't think. sometimes, it's random. it's not up to your little software.

Who was your leader?

[Water Dumple]

archurban wrote...

well, that calculator is not always correct. my loyalty Legion for tech expert was failed, and died. can you explain this? I don't think. sometimes, it's random. it's not up to your little software.

If your leader was bad, your tech expert can die regardless of who it is.

[rca626]

XX55XX wrote...

Which .NET language did you write this in? Visual C++? C#?

It's written in Visual Basic (VB.NET).

[rca626]

Pacifien wrote...

Death means Shepard. If there is neither an escort or final boss squadmate alive and only 1 from hold the line, Shepard dies.

For Liec's scenario, I don't know what happens once you get down to the bare minimum of squadmates. You'll have three for the biotic shield and one for the fireteam leader, which I suppose means it simply won't let you choose an escort. I haven't done this particular scenario myself, though. But from a gameplay perspective, you must have squadmates for the biotic shield, you must have a second fireteam leader, so if that's all you have (which is possible), then escort is a no-go.

Oh right, and if the second fireteam leader is the only one on that team, the leader will live irregardless of whether they were the right person for the job.

Thanks. Initially I thought [Death] meant Shepard, but after discussing the issues people were having with the calculator I was beginning to think it was somebody else.

The FT2 Leader stipulation you spoke of is also in the calculator.

Modifié par rca626, 03 octobre 2010 - 05:42 .

[rca626]

Water Dumple wrote...

archurban wrote...

well, that calculator is not always correct. my loyalty Legion for tech expert was failed, and died. can you explain this? I don't think. sometimes, it's random. it's not up to your little software.

If your leader was bad, your tech expert can die regardless of who it is.

That is correct. Both the Tech Expert and FT1 Leader have to be loyal but also have to be one of the "approved" team members to handle their job, or else the Tech Expert is toast. See Ecael's "Ultimate Guide" or the link to the PDF file available in the Help file under "Notes & Hints".

Modifié par rca626, 03 octobre 2010 - 05:35 .

[rca626]

Okay, I think I have it working correctly now (but we'll see, right?). :happy:  Version 1.9 is available for download.

Using Liec's scenario as an example, you'll have Samara, Miranda, and Garrus available going into the FB fight. If any of them are left holding the line by themselves, they'll survive but Shepard will die.

Now if you make Garrus the Tech Spec. and Mordin the FT1 Leader (riot), Samara as Biotic and Miranda as FT2 Leader, you'll get down to Samara, Miranda, and Mordin going into the FB fight. If Mordin is holding the line by himself, he'll die along with everybody else.

[Liec]

rca626 wrote...
Using Liec's scenario as an example, you'll have Samara, Miranda, and Garrus available going into the FB fight. If any of them are left holding the line by themselves, they'll survive but Shepard will die.

I think it's a bit misleading to say they survive because while they survive holding the line, they won't make it to the Normandy, as Pacifien said:

Pacifien wrote...

So yeah, Grunt might be climbing over a mountain of Collector bodies by himself, as the guy can hold the line by himself, but unless someone is as victorious as he was (at least one other squadmate survivor), Joker will say he didn't make it.

But to be honest it doesn't matter if they survive or not in that scenario anyway because Shepard dies. 

By the way, the second post in Acael's guide shows a scenario that can't be tested in the calculator in which all survive with only 3 loyals, and Acael didn't recruit Samara, Legion or Kasumi. My guess is that the only characters that are obligatory for the SM are Jacob, Miranda and Mordin and then you can choose from the remaining 9 characters to form a team of at least 8.

Modifié par Liec, 03 octobre 2010 - 07:23 .

[rca626]

Liec wrote...

rca626 wrote...
Using Liec's scenario as an example, you'll have Samara, Miranda, and Garrus available going into the FB fight. If any of them are left holding the line by themselves, they'll survive but Shepard will die.

I think it's a bit misleading to say they survive because while they survive holding the line, they won't make it to the Normandy, as Pacifien said:

Pacifien wrote...

So yeah, Grunt might be climbing over a mountain of Collector bodies by himself, as the guy can hold the line by himself, but unless someone is as victorious as he was (at least one other squadmate survivor), Joker will say he didn't make it.

But to be honest it doesn't matter if they survive or not in that scenario anyway because Shepard dies. 

Has anybody played that through? I'm asking because I've had endings where you didn't see HTL people dead in the cinematic after the FB fight, but yet they weren't on the Normandy afterwards and there was a coffin on the ship that would account for them. Similarly, I've heard of others (yes, this is heresay, I haven't verified it) where team members have survived (I think I heard about Samara once), where they weren't there to help Shepard aboard the Normandy, but yet you saw them on the ship afterwards.

Liec wrote...

By the way, the second post in Acael's guide shows a scenario that can't be tested in the calculator in which all survive with only 3 loyals, and Acael didn't recruit Samara, Legion or Kasumi. My guess is that the only characters that are obligatory for the SM are Jacob, Miranda and Mordin and then you can choose from the remaining 9 characters to form a team of at least 8.

How can you not recruit Samara? I was wondering about that, because once I tried to avoid recruiting team members as much as possible, but the game wouldn't let me progress without them. The only way I avoided recruiting Kasumi and Zaeed is by deleting their DLCs before starting the game. With Grunt and Legion, you can "acquire" them but you don't have to activate them. But I wasn't able to go into the SM without recruiting all of the other team members. You don't have to do loyalties, but you at least have to have them there, don't you? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Modifié par rca626, 03 octobre 2010 - 08:22 .

[Liec]

 AFAIK the SM can be started after you complete an X number of missions and you have at least 8 squadmates available. Like I said, Acael managed to skip Samara... and Thane now that I look at it more closely .

Ecael wrote...

With this in mind, it is possible to get the No One Left Behind achievement with 3 loyals by recruiting the bare minimum number of squadmates (8).

3 loyal, all survive

[Pacifien]

You can go into the suicide mission with a minimum of 8. Jacob, Miranda, Mordin, Garrus, and Jack will be five of those 8, but Grunt is one you can leave in the tank. You could also get Zaeed and Kasumi before Horizon, so you're at 7 before Horizon even takes place. You could even be at 8 before Horizon takes place. You can forego recruiting Samara, Tali, and Thane altogether by simply doing all the other sidequests available until the Illusive Man says it's time to go to the Collector Base.

As for the final cinematic fight, it only ever shows the first three people who died during the fight. If you had four die, such as Mordin, Tali, Kasumi and Jack, then it won't show Jack. But she's dead. Also, who pulls Shepard up onto the Normandy is on a priority list. Several other squadmates are going to pull Shepard up before it gets to Samara.