28 réponses à ce sujet

[mcsupersport]

OK, I decided to finally complete the Accomplishments for ME1, and that for me meant playing an Engineer.  I had started one earlier, but never got around to doing much with her.  On the boards everyone calls Engineers underpowered, weak, and unable to do Insanity because of scalling and weak powers, so I was really in no hurry to get back to the Engineer.  Finally I decided, lets finish up the ME1 skills that I never got around to and do a carry over run for ME2, so that meant playing Engineer for 3 runs on a ME1 level 60 character to import.  So, I built an Engineer with bonus of Sniper Rifles, because I love the sniper rifles, and off I went to grind out a few skills and make my import ready Shepard.

I played Normal first two runs, to learn the class and because I knew it wasn't a strong class, and pretty much breezed right on through, once I figured out how to use the skills like I should and of course got some levels up.  Now I am starting the last run through, and decided since the first two runs were so easy, let's see how Insanity fairs.  I moved up to Insanity after becoming a Specter, and have so far done 2 missions, 1)  Retrieve the Data module on trinket world, and Therum to get Liara.  So far both have beent the easiest plays of all, including my Soldier, Adept and Infiltrator.  Therum was a breeze, no issues, bairly even got shot at, and enemies dropped quickly.  Now both missions were Geth enemy missions, BUT walking up to the Colossus and killing it without taking ANY damage was an eye opener, and the Geth ambush was simple enough to take out the Armeture, 2 snipers, and the hoppers without taking any damage.  The final confrontation of the Krogan and the Geth at the end of Therum was over before it began, only lasting maybe 30 seconds without any of my guys taking damage.

So this is what I have found about the Engineer:

1)  Sabatage:  Weapon overheats, so no one fires a shot at you and you can just stand there and shoot them.
2)  Overload:  Damages enemies, and increases their damage taken by 30%.
3)  Dampening:  Shuts down power use, and stuns enemies for 3-5 seconds so they just stand there and take hits.
4)  Neural Shock:  Limited use, 3-5 seconds stun and poison damage.
5)  AI Hacking:  Limited use, but makes an enemy mostly a friend, and a target of other enemies, but they will shoot at you if you are the closest person, most like Confusion in DnD.
6)  Your three bread and butter powers, sabatage, Overload and Dampening have a HUGE radius with Operative, and all upgrades, in the realm of 15-18 meters RADIUS and incrediblely quick cool downs for something that disables all incoming fire from entire groups, and increases their damage taken.


So, you take these abilities and mix them with a sniper rifle, and master pistols and things DIE!!  So what am I missing that makes them so underpowered that everyone hates them??

[OniGanon]

Basically...



Soldier and Infiltrator has Immunity, making them pretty much impossible to kill.

Adept, Vanguard and Sentinel have Barrier, making them pretty much impossible to kill except by direct health damage.

Engineers have... oh.



Was this a NG+? Because to really judge the class you should start fresh on Insanity. Anyway, two missions is hardly enough to judge by, especially against Geth where the Engineer is at its strongest. Go do Missing Survery Team, Feros and Noveria and see how your apparent godliness holds up.

[mcsupersport]

Yeah, it was NG+, am running up to level 60, and had hit max level. Right now, I am planning on doing all the rest of my last of 3 runs on Insanity level, UNLESS I hit the reason for them being called underpowered. I really have great gear, and I may just try to start over on a new engineer on insanity later, but for now, it is 60 level power to the wall, because I plan on going on to ME2.

[mcsupersport]

Ohh, Engineers don't have anything to boost their defense per se, BUT Sabatage means NOTHING is damaging you so you really don't need it.



Well we will see later this play and maybe another later.

[OniGanon]

At level 60 you and your teammates have all their important abilities maxed, which makes everything a fair bit easier. The last fight on Therum is a little bit different when you have starter gear and only have 1pt Neural Shock to save you from the Krogan.

Sabotage is godmode on Geth, and okay on mercs and the like (though they usually need to be Sabotaged a few times). Where things generally start getting dangerous for you is against swarms of Husks, Creepers, Rachni and Varren who will laugh at your attempts to Sabotage their nonexistent weaponry, and you will be depending on Damping and Neural Shock stun effects and just plain old Running the Hell Away to keep you alive.

Bringing Liara along and keeping her alive at all costs will make life much easier for you. Just be aware all those enemies also bypass her Barrier, so...

Modifié par OniGanon, 18 septembre 2010 - 03:30 .

[Radahldo]

damping doesn't help that much against immunity.

So, human enemies indeed will be 'standing there and taking hits'

[Phaelducan]

Honestly, in ME1 it doesn't matter what you play, even on Insanity. Really once you are looking at the rank 7 equipment across the board your cooldowns and damage will be good enough to get through the game with little trouble.



Now, you WILL die on occassion from snipers or rockets if you play one of the "weaker" classes (HP and defensive abilities) but a quick reload and you'll be blasting through the content NP.



But... if you do want to feel challenged then start up a new level 1 on Insanity. It's as hard as ME1 gets (which admittedly isn't much, but there it is).

[termokanden]

It has been said already. Engineer abilities simply pale in comparison to what everyone else gets. Besides an Infiltrator can get the good engineering abilities and still have Immunity. So if I wanted tech abilities, I'd choose an Infiltrator instead.

In ME1 there is not as much balance between tech and biotics as there is in ME2. In ME1 biotics will trivialize every fight except the ones against Rocket Drones and a certain enemy that likes to hover. Tech doesn't quite have that much power.

Modifié par termokanden, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Mr_Raider]

termokanden wrote...


In ME1 there is not as much balance between tech and biotics as there is in ME2. In ME1 biotics will trivialize every fight except the ones against Rocket Drones and a certain enemy that likes to hover. T

Bastion stasis

[Radahldo]

you have to fight rocket drones to get bastion, so thats not fully relevant.

Modifié par Radahldo, 19 septembre 2010 - 01:33 .

[mcsupersport]

Remember this is an NG++ with a level 60 engineer, Colossus Armor and Specter X gear.



Well, did the lost colony(husks), DIS(crime lord), Luna, and working on X57, so far, while the fights take a bit of time, they are not that dangerous other than the shielded turrets on the X57 mission. Whoever designed those finally understood how to make a turret that was a PITA, and the layouts somewhat challenging.



Luna mission was funny to see all the Rocket and Assault drones piling up in front of my team and just sitting there waiting to take enough lead to die.



Dis mission I found out that a shot from a sniper will NOT kill me in one.



X57, Turrets are a pain, and the fights take awhile, but rarely any cause for concern as in only a couple of times did my shields even drop and they popped back really quickly with minimal damage. Best way to fight the Immunity soldiers is to put on a shotgun with knockdown ammo and wade into the fight blasting them off their feet. Keep dropping tech mines to keep anyone from shooting, and follow the guy you want dead around until he dies. The immunity thing is annoying, time consuming, but not really dangerous to me.



As far as tech not having anything close to Biotics, have to disagree. Sabatage has huge area, around 60 feet to overheat all guns meaning NO ONE SHOOTS, biotics Singularity is close, but doesn't effect Turrets, drones and has a slightly smaller effect and duration. Overload makes everyone take 30% more damage(35% with operative), comparable to warp because warp is single enemy versus area attack. Dampening also stops power usage, stuns standard enemies(rocket pods included) also in an area effect. The only two things Biotics do better is Shielding in Barrier is greater than the bonus you get from Tech, and the Lift/Throw combo to instant kill enemies.



You can walk right up to a standard turret, Colossus, Armature, and any Standard enemy(geth, rocket pods, mercenaries, snipers, Assault pods) if you are using your powers right. It was fun watching Ashley stand under the nose of the Colossus on Therum when recruiting Liara, and see it just stand there looking at here until it died.



The big challenge will be Krogan, and how they respond to the tech attacks, since I remember them shrugging off Biotics pretty well too, so they may be a big PITA.

[termokanden]

Sure it works. My argument was just that if you want to use tech, Infiltrator seems better.

Radahldo wrote...

you have to fight rocket drones to get bastion, so thats not fully relevant.

Indeed. I know about Bastion Stasis by the way, but I meant the normal biotics that other classes have as well.

Modifié par termokanden, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:58 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

If you want a ME1 challenge then start any class level 1 and after leaving the citadel go immediately do side missions involving lot's of biotics and/or rocket drones.

[mcsupersport]

termokanden wrote...

Sure it works. My argument was just that if you want to use tech, Infiltrator seems better.

One of the things that to me makes the Engineer better at tech is both the AI and Dampening specializations.  One adds greater range of damage, and the other adds faster cooldowns.  I understand why you like the Infiltrator, and immunity is a nice(overpowered even) power, but the thing I am liking about the Engineer is that if played like I am currently playing, immunity is redundant because people are not shooting at you in the first place.

Sometime in the future I will have to start a Level 1 insanity Engineer, but for now I will play what I got, and enjoy the heck out of it.

[SweetPuff]

Hmm. Makes me wanna boot up ME1 and go Insanity from level 1 with an Engie.

And triple tech team of Shep, Garrus and Tali. Should be interesting to see how that plays out.

Closest thing I have done with an Engie in ME1 was a Hardcore run with mainly Ash and Wrex.

Modifié par SweetPuff, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[Radahldo]

It really isn't that fun until you get the operative spec



The cooldown bonus is extremely noticeable





Also, if you damp a krogan in mid sprint, he'll resume the sprint without a hitch as soon as it expires



I want to read how you handle the cluster of krogan on virmire, specifically the ones in that very small space you enter after setting the bomb



One of them has a higher tech resistance than the others, and makes things difficult.

The infiltrator can do that section much easier

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

engineer vs krogan is a bad matchup, and if you head to the thorian without a biotic then you are in one of the worst situations in the game (and one I spent days trying to beat on my hardcore engy playthrough..)

[PsyrenY]

What Neofelis said. Neural Shock obliterates both Krogan and Shialla clones in ME1. It also totally ignores shields AND stops health regen. As icing on the cake, it lowers your medigel cooldown.



Damping is for asari commandos and other casting enemies.

[SweetPuff]

Personally, I prefer Medic to Operative. The ability to revive teammates with medi-gel is pure magic.

[OniGanon]

I also much preferred the Medic route. Longer duration Neural Shock with shorter cooldown, Medigel ignores toxic and revives teammates, hell yeah.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

It's a survivability/durability issue.

Short of throwing in Barrier as a bonus power, Engineers *are* the squishiest class.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 20 septembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[coinop25]

Engineer at Level 50-60 is indeed quite powerful. Engineer at lower levels on Insanity tends to die a lot due to the lack of Barrier/Immunity. I did okay using shield-heavy armors and Shield Boost frequently, using Warp as my bonus talent, as the damage protection debuff stacks with the debuff on Overload, softening up enemies to kill with Marksman on the pistol. It was fun, and killed enemies faster than any other class I played in ME1, but still required VERY careful fighting until level 40 or so because the Engineer is so fragile.

[SweetPuff]

Ok, I've tried the Missing Survey Team assignment right after leaving Citadel with Garrus and Tali. No real difficulty, just need to kite a lot. Having a shotgun helps a lot.



Right after that, I took on the assignment that involves Nassana's sister. Now that is one big headache, since I didn't have Ashley and Wrex in the team.