64 réponses à ce sujet

[lv12medic]

What is the verdict?

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Verdict!

Consoles:

• Press A to perform basic attack.
• Open radial menu and press A to issue attack order, character will auto-attack.
• Non-controlled characters will behave based on tactics.

PC:

• Right click to issue attack order, character will auto-attack.
• Non-controlled characters will behave based on tactics.

Now thats a verdict. 

[fchopin]

rexil wrote...

Good to know it still the same on PC. Thanks Mike.

It is not the same for PC, it has changed to autoattack.
 
This is how i like it and was asking for in DAO.

[Sharn01]

So dual weilding characters have to spam A as fast as they can while 2 handed users have to pace themselves?



This sounds rediculous to me.

[axa89]

fchopin wrote...
It is not the same for PC, it has changed to autoattack.
 
This is how i like it and was asking for in DAO.

It has not changed: In da:o you right click on a target and your character begins to auto-attack.

[rexil]

fchopin wrote...

rexil wrote...

Good to know it still the same on PC. Thanks Mike.

It is not the same for PC, it has changed to autoattack.
 
This is how i like it and was asking for in DAO.

DA:O already had auto-attack ...you want button mash for PC too?

Well, I have one thing less to worry about on my list of "Things I don't like about DA2 (yet)".

[Amfortas]

so I wonder... does pressing A rapidly make you attack faster that auto attack?

[andar91]

fchopin wrote...

rexil wrote...

Good to know it still the same on PC. Thanks Mike.

It is not the same for PC, it has changed to autoattack.
 
This is how i like it and was asking for in DAO.

No it isn't.  It's the same as Origins on PC. 

[axa89]

Amfortas wrote...

so I wonder... does pressing A rapidly make you attack faster that auto attack?

No. It wouldn't make sense. You're still limited by the animation speed for the weapon you're wielding.

[Mike Laidlaw]

As to the reasons for the press to attack decision on console, it's largely focused around targeting. We experimented with the "feel" of auto attack and discovered that it didn't actually offer you as much control and freedom as pushing to attack. Let me see if I can explain.

On the PC, you have both a currently selected target, and a "free floating target indicator" in the form of your mouse cursor. You can be attacking one guy while simultaneously lining up a new target by moving your mouse overtop of him. As such, even with basic attacks it's possible for you to quickly spin and hit new targets in the midst of the melee because you have a precision tool for doing just that. By my estimation, this is a good thing.

On the console, you have two "known" ways to select your target: camera control, and D-pad. Those are unchanged. However, in testing, we found that the overall feel of combat could be improved by adding a third, and far more natural way to select target, movement stick deflection. Thus, if you are in the midst of a melee and see an enemy breaking off to attack your mage, you can simply deflect the left stick towards that target and the target will change when you issue your next attack.

And since your next attack is on the next button press, you can immediately change targets mid-fight. So your rogue can break free of a scrum to cut off the foe attacking your mage, and so on. A warrior can spread attacks between two foes to build aggro and so on. The overall feel is very responsive, and largely made possible by push to attack, which allows us to achieve similar results to the free floating target indicator of the mouse, but to do so in a way that, as SirOccam pointed out, "feels very natural" on the consoles.

Obviously, the concern is "oh noes! My targets will change if I sneeze!" This isn't really the case, however, as there's a LOT of code involved in keeping your current target sticky and generally feeling right.

Also, since someone asked and I didn't see an answer when I started posting this, "A" on the 360 is equivalent to "X" on the PS3.

[B3taMaxxx]

So to sum up, there's essentially no viable auto-attack on conole?

Mashing the face buttons has never been a fun activity to me. Now, had you guys made the right trigger the basic attack button, then used the face buttons as mappable special abilities, left trigger as the radial menu (pause & play) and actually utilize the d-pad, I wouldn't mind so much.

Hey Mike, slap in Sacred II on the console. You may have a 'mind blown' experience/ephipany on how a RPG should utilize a control-pad. They didn't have the control scheme I explained, but then again they did have a simple auto-attack feature, and a simple twitch of the analogue stick would allow me to target a different foe instantly.

I guess my overall issue with no useable auto-attack is after I've played through the game several times. I want to concentrate more on creating different plots and character builds. For me, this is the same as saying 'we've decided to take out the ability to skip cut-scenes'.

Modifié par B3taMaxxx, 20 septembre 2010 - 11:31 .

[thegreateski]

Consoles DO have an auto-attack feature. Why does everyone ignore this?

[B3taMaxxx]

thegreateski wrote...

Consoles DO have an auto-attack feature. Why does everyone ignore this?

 Not without pause & play. That alone makes it a tad different. Since you have a better grasp on the issue, perhaps you can explain; Do I have to pause & play (select "attack order" from radial menu) from enemy to enemy? This is what I've concluded.

Modifié par B3taMaxxx, 20 septembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[rexil]

B3taMaxxx wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Consoles DO have an auto-attack feature. Why does everyone ignore this?

 Not without pause & play. That alone makes it a tad different. Since you have a better grasp on the issue, perhaps you can explain; Do I have to pause & play (select "attack order" from radial menu) from enemy to enemy? This is what I've concluded.

Use duct tape:ph34r:

[thegreateski]

B3taMaxxx wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Consoles DO have an auto-attack feature. Why does everyone ignore this?

 Not without pause & play. That alone makes it a tad different. Since you have a better grasp on the issue, perhaps you can explain; Do I have to pause & play (select "attack order" from radial menu) from enemy to enemy? This is what I've concluded.

Pull the left trigger
Move crosshair over target
Press A
Release the trigger

You are now auto-attacking. Takes about half a second to do.

Modifié par thegreateski, 20 septembre 2010 - 11:57 .

[B3taMaxxx]

thegreateski wrote...
Pull the left trigger
Move crosshair over target
Press A
Release the trigger

You are now auto-attacking. Takes about half a second to do.

As I explained, but you missed the question, yes? Their problem, my issue, is the use of the A button as a definitive attack. I didn't mind it as much in DA: Origins because it was the auto-attack button. Hence the reason I suggested they try the Sacred II control-scheme.

 You to would be questioning this if the radial menu had to be used to auto-attack every grunt on PC. The "it feels more natural" argument is asinine, when the click of a mouse button is no more taxing then that of a button press.

[Lumikki]

Here is my opinion. If you need auto-attack in game, there is something wrong in the game. Why?

Because it means game is playing behave of player as repeating same attack to same target. That's very booring way to play games.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 septembre 2010 - 12:26 .

[thegreateski]

B3taMaxxx wrote...

thegreateski wrote...
Pull the left trigger
Move crosshair over target
Press A
Release the trigger

You are now auto-attacking. Takes about half a second to do.

As I explained, but you missed the question, yes? Their problem, my issue, is the use of the A button as a definitive attack. I didn't mind it as much in DA: Origins because it was the auto-attack button. Hence the reason I suggested they try the Sacred II control-scheme.

 You to would be questioning this if the radial menu had to be used to auto-attack every grunt on PC. The "it feels more natural" argument is asinine, when the click of a mouse button is no more taxing then that of a button press.

Well in order to understand your post one would have to know what a Sacred II control scheme is.

[mopotter]

SirOccam wrote...

Like I said I thought it worked fine without it (and I didn't know it was an option in the radial menu, or if it was even enabled) on the console. Instead pressing A performed an attack, but it didn't start them attacking. This would get old on a PC, having to continually click over and over on the same enemy, but it feels right on a controller.

I would like to hear the official ruling straight from the horse's mouth, though. I'm also confused by the idea of having it in the radial menu. Like you say, it seems an odd compromise. But maybe I'm just misunderstanding how it works.

I like it the way it is.  If I'm shooting (arrows or magic) and am attacked close up, I don't really want to have to think about stopping the auto attack, I just want to switch my weapon and aim.  

edit. clarify 

Modifié par mopotter, 21 septembre 2010 - 12:43 .

[B3taMaxxx]

Lumikki wrote...

Here is my opinion. If you need auto-attack in game, there is something wrong in the game. Why?

Because it means game is playing behave of player as repeating same attack to same target. That's very booring way to play games.

 So by mashing a button this subverts your boredom?

thegreateski wrote...
Well in order to understand your post one would have to know what a Sacred II control scheme is.

 I'd rather they play it and find out, but they won't so.

 Map buttons: X, A, Y, B  
 Alternate: Hold Left Trigger
 Alternate: Hold Right Trigger

 That's twelve map buttons, with any being a regular/auto-attack. You can slot/map a weapon as well serve as attack/auto-attack or map a often used skill, in which case you use the skill and while it's recharging the button reverts back to a basic attack.

 Potions such as health are user mapped to the d-pad, which gives you three slots, and up unleashes a diety/summon to help.

 Analogue sticks are basic movement and sight.

 Left Button serves to interact (open doors ect) and also serves as a mass loot collector (have 10 dead bodies on the ground near you? Click Left Bumper to collect all. This is a feature used due to the game being multiplayer).

 Right Button serves the same purpose of the 'Radial Menu/Wheel'  -From there you can select your inventory, codexs, ect

 Select/Back Button quickly brings up the world/level map

 Start Button opens up game settings


 It's a scheme that utilizes every button and allows for a large amount of customization.

 Look, I'm just nitpicking, I know. I don't know much of the game yet, and I'm sure I'll easily adhere to the scheme they come up with. And who knows, it may be the case as in Sacred, where cool-downs on spells/actions is so miniscule that you'll be mashing buttons all the time anyhow. We'll see, I suppose.

Modifié par B3taMaxxx, 21 septembre 2010 - 12:55 .

[B3taMaxxx]

mopotter wrote...

I like it the way it is.  If I'm shooting (arrows or magic) and am attacked close up, I don't really want to have to think about stopping the auto attack, I just want to switch my weapon and aim.  

edit. clarify 

 Oh geez, I never even thought of it from an archer's perspective........

 Having to initiate every arrow volley with a button mash could be tiresome (not physically).

 Unless of course the arrows do incredible damage which would only take 1 or 2 to dispatch of a grunt.

[Lumikki]

B3taMaxxx wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Here is my opinion. If you need auto-attack in game, there is something wrong in the game. Why?

Because it means game is playing behave of player as repeating same attack to same target. That's very booring way to play games.

 So by mashing a button this subverts your boredom?

If you bash same button over and over, it's no better than auto-attack.  How ever, if you bash different button based what you are attacking then it's way it should be. If game doesn't require player to think or be active, it's not really much of game.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:15 .

[cobpot1]

Lumikki wrote...

B3taMaxxx wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Here is my opinion. If you need auto-attack in game, there is something wrong in the game. Why?

Because it means game is playing behave of player as repeating same attack to same target. That's very booring way to play games.

 So by mashing a button this subverts your boredom?

If you bash same button over and over, it's no better than auto-attack.  How ever, if you bash different button based what you are attacking then it's way it should be. If game doesn't require player to think or be active, it's not really much of game.

Yes because simple auto attack makes us all stop thinking about are next move doesnt it

[Dave of Canada]

B3taMaxxx wrote...

 So by mashing a button this subverts your boredom?

Yes? In Origins, I'm already button mashing but the only thing that's different is I have to sit there looking at the ceiling because I have no other buttons to press while they are on cooldown or I'm waiting on Stamina. The only difference this does is add something for me to do while I wait for those cooldowns instead of counting the ceiling tiles.

[B3taMaxxx]

cobpot1 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

B3taMaxxx wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Here is my opinion. If you need auto-attack in game, there is something wrong in the game. Why?

Because it means game is playing behave of player as repeating same attack to same target. That's very booring way to play games.

 So by mashing a button this subverts your boredom?

If you bash same button over and over, it's no better than auto-attack.  How ever, if you bash different button based what you are attacking then it's way it should be. If game doesn't require player to think or be active, it's not really much of game.

Yes because simple auto attack makes us all stop thinking about are next move doesnt it

 I could train a nug to mash buttons all day, I can't get it to understand that mages are better suited casting spells from a far.

[Sharn01]

So its not Dragon Effect anymore, now its Dynasty Effect.