1279 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Is the sky also falling? Just want to be sure I have the appropriate amount of panic before entering the thread.

[andar91]

I'm glad that the writer enjoyed the game. Not really any new information, but I didn't actually expect it yet. Sounds pretty good.

[Elanareon]

I'm excited for the game now! March please hurry!!!

[LokiHades]

Read this from the mag about two to three weeks ago (issues always in print early). Then read it again. Then read it again when I went to the bathroom for some long business. I really love my PCG UK, and the preview just jawdropped me the first time. It really makes me want to abandon IRL when DA2 comes along >_>

[Master Shiori]

Nothing new there, but it was nice to hear positive feedback from someone who played the PC version of DA2 and liked what he saw.



I'm especially happy to hear that the interface and party tactical gameplay are the same but that combat runs much smoother now than it did in DA:O.



So far the news have been really encouraging. Looking forward to new screenshots, videos and info.

[Archereon]

You know, I wonder what the Bioware staff REALLY thinks about Dragon Age 2 and all the "changes" being made...

(Don't even bother re'ing if you see this devs, we all know you aren't going to admit to any significant misgivings about the game you may or may not have, post anything about the game that comes even close to breaking your NDAs, or otherwise say anything risky.)

PS: I don't resent them for that, ultimately, regardless of what level of their motivations in working for Bioware are "for the art" based, making a living comes first for them as it does for everyone.

Modifié par Archereon, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:13 .

[KIrving]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
But here's the thing: you just saw someone write a very enthusiastic preview about the PC version. Not the console. The PC.

Some solace there, I would hope?

Ooh.. I can read between the lines here.  The console versions will be bad!!

[SirOccam]

Archereon wrote...

You know, I wonder what the Bioware staff REALLY thinks about Dragon Age 2 and all the "changes" being made...

(Don't even bother re'ing if you see this devs, we all know you aren't going to admit to any significant misgivings about the game you may or may not have, post anything about the game that comes even close to breaking your NDAs, or otherwise say anything risky.)

PS: I don't resent them for that, ultimately, regardless of what level of their motivations in working for Bioware are "for the art" based, making a living comes first for them as it does for everyone.

I'm sure one or more of them have disagreed at some point on something, and had the final decision go against their wishes. I highly doubt, however, that it's like the picture you paint of soulless husks slaving away on a product they hate because they are slaves to both the almighty Dollar and the almighty NDA.

Modifié par SirOccam, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Meltemph]

I don't think it is the fact that people complain, it is that most people who do complain have absolutely no substance to the complaints, with no real explanation of the why of that complaint. And then when you call them on those complaints, they either ignore you or make sure they pop in to tell you how wrong you are without telling how and why you are wrong.

You see it in this topic already, someone post something directly at the complainers who leave 0 substance and then they call him out for being annoying/obnoxious/not worth the time and ect. They are apparently willing to divulge, quite literally, MONTHS of complaining, but to actually respond to any substantial response to a large majority of the complainers is to ask for a miracle.

And honestly most of the complaints are completely ignorant to reality or, imo,  just really bad idea's. Suffice to say, I am glad the large majority of the constant whiners on this forum won't influence direction of the game cause it would be terrible otherwise. Now the legitimate complaints, with strong arguments, and well laid-out why's, and with a common sense approach I hope and plead the devs take serious. But it is so freaking hard, I would imagine, due to the other 90% of the rabble that you have to sift through to get good, well thought-out, suggestions or complaints.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:20 .

[Nighteye2]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...
I was surprised that the reviewer thought normal on DA:O was difficult. O.o

I would expect reviewers to be a bit more skilled at playing games than that...

It was harder at first, then the patches made things easier supposedly. I don't really recall the changes (other than something about dagger damage and rogues), but then I'm lazy about reading patch notes.

Supposedly, yes. I wouldn't know, because I started playing on Hard and then switched to Nightmare, which still wasn't as challenging as I'd hoped for...

[Bryy_Miller]

SirOccam wrote...

Archereon wrote...

You know, I wonder what the Bioware staff REALLY thinks about Dragon Age 2 and all the "changes" being made...

(Don't even bother re'ing if you see this devs, we all know you aren't going to admit to any significant misgivings about the game you may or may not have, post anything about the game that comes even close to breaking your NDAs, or otherwise say anything risky.)

PS: I don't resent them for that, ultimately, regardless of what level of their motivations in working for Bioware are "for the art" based, making a living comes first for them as it does for everyone.

I'm sure one or more of them have disagreed at some point on something, and had the final decision go against their wishes. I highly doubt, however, that it's like the picture you paint of soulless husks slaving away on a product they hate because they are slaves to both the almighty Dollar and the almighty NDA.

Seriously. And while they can't **** about their bosses, or even EA (I mean, you wouldn't **** about YOUR bosses in a public forum), I don't think that there is some nefarious conspiracy to keep BioWare from making a game they want to make.

[Archereon]

SirOccam wrote...

Archereon wrote...

You know, I wonder what the Bioware staff REALLY thinks about Dragon Age 2 and all the "changes" being made...

(Don't even bother re'ing if you see this devs, we all know you aren't going to admit to any significant misgivings about the game you may or may not have, post anything about the game that comes even close to breaking your NDAs, or otherwise say anything risky.)

PS: I don't resent them for that, ultimately, regardless of what level of their motivations in working for Bioware are "for the art" based, making a living comes first for them as it does for everyone.

I'm sure one or more of them have disagreed at some point on something, and had the final decision go against their wishes. I highly doubt, however, that it's like the picture you paint of soulless husks slaving away on a product they hate because they are slaves to both the almighty Dollar and the almighty NDA.

Probably not.  Its likely that on at least one ocassion, a dev has been forced by the "Dollar and NDA" to write/progam something for the game they thought was a terrible idea.  And considering the potentialy drastic differences between DA:1 and DA:2 (CRPG to ARPG as many reviewers think, or CRPG with many ARPG elements added if the most conservative opinions are to be believed.), its likely that someone is unhappy about the product they're working on that cared about the first game.

Modifié par Archereon, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:26 .

[Meltemph]

Also keep in mind though, that the idea of quality is what sells in this market.  So everything they do and everything that their bosses want them to do is quality defined. Now, they may force them to follow "trends" but anything that is forced through, I would think at the end of the day, in terms of game-play, will be decided by the developers as a whole with quality and salability in mind.

At worst holding content for expansions/dlc/more money but I doubt it effects them more then that, given the environment of the market.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[SirOccam]

Archereon wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Archereon wrote...

You know, I wonder what the Bioware staff REALLY thinks about Dragon Age 2 and all the "changes" being made...

(Don't even bother re'ing if you see this devs, we all know you aren't going to admit to any significant misgivings about the game you may or may not have, post anything about the game that comes even close to breaking your NDAs, or otherwise say anything risky.)

PS: I don't resent them for that, ultimately, regardless of what level of their motivations in working for Bioware are "for the art" based, making a living comes first for them as it does for everyone.

I'm sure one or more of them have disagreed at some point on something, and had the final decision go against their wishes. I highly doubt, however, that it's like the picture you paint of soulless husks slaving away on a product they hate because they are slaves to both the almighty Dollar and the almighty NDA.

Probably not.  Its likely that on at least one ocassion, a dev has been forced by the "Dollar and NDA" to write/progam something for the game they thought was a terrible idea.

But it's really not that much of a stretch to think that a professional game development studio can work past their own differences of opinion and collaborate to make a game based on a single, unifying vision, and that they have learned to be open-minded and not dwell on those differences.

If they think something's a terrible idea, they probably discuss it. And they probably work it out.

I think this is all just a matter of hyperbole. I'm sure you're right, that a writer had to write something he or she didn't particularly like, or an artist had to keep something in or leave something out against his or her wishes, and so on, but you are kind of blowing it out of proportion. I doubt anyone has any deep, philosophical issues with the game which have to be forced aside. It's perfectly reasonable to believe that this seasoned team of developers is capable of working together. Part of that, I'd assume, is trusting that your colleagues believe in their opinions just as much as you believe in yours, and therefore if you are overruled, it's probably for a good reason.

[Bryy_Miller]

Archereon wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Archereon wrote...

You know, I wonder what the Bioware staff REALLY thinks about Dragon Age 2 and all the "changes" being made...

(Don't even bother re'ing if you see this devs, we all know you aren't going to admit to any significant misgivings about the game you may or may not have, post anything about the game that comes even close to breaking your NDAs, or otherwise say anything risky.)

PS: I don't resent them for that, ultimately, regardless of what level of their motivations in working for Bioware are "for the art" based, making a living comes first for them as it does for everyone.

I'm sure one or more of them have disagreed at some point on something, and had the final decision go against their wishes. I highly doubt, however, that it's like the picture you paint of soulless husks slaving away on a product they hate because they are slaves to both the almighty Dollar and the almighty NDA.

Probably not.  Its likely that on at least one ocassion, a dev has been forced by the "Dollar and NDA" to write/progam something for the game they thought was a terrible idea.  And considering the potentialy drastic differences between DA:1 and DA:2 (CRPG to ARPG as many reviewers think, or CRPG with many ARPG elements added if the most conservative opinions are to be believed.), its likely that someone is unhappy about the product they're working on that cared about the first game.

People often have to make sacrifices in business for "the greater good". This is nothing new. It's not a scandal, and it most likely is not a juicy story. I want to see the design document and cut features of Dragon Age, but that doesn't mean that is the game BioWare intended to make. 

Dragon Age is the game BioWare intended to make. The sum is not the whole.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:35 .

[Archereon]

SirOccam wrote...

Archereon wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Archereon wrote...

You know, I wonder what the Bioware staff REALLY thinks about Dragon Age 2 and all the "changes" being made...

(Don't even bother re'ing if you see this devs, we all know you aren't going to admit to any significant misgivings about the game you may or may not have, post anything about the game that comes even close to breaking your NDAs, or otherwise say anything risky.)

PS: I don't resent them for that, ultimately, regardless of what level of their motivations in working for Bioware are "for the art" based, making a living comes first for them as it does for everyone.

I'm sure one or more of them have disagreed at some point on something, and had the final decision go against their wishes. I highly doubt, however, that it's like the picture you paint of soulless husks slaving away on a product they hate because they are slaves to both the almighty Dollar and the almighty NDA.

Probably not.  Its likely that on at least one ocassion, a dev has been forced by the "Dollar and NDA" to write/progam something for the game they thought was a terrible idea.

But it's really not that much of a stretch to think that a professional game development studio can work past their own differences of opinion and collaborate to make a game based on a single, unifying vision, and that they have learned to be open-minded and not dwell on those differences.

If they think something's a terrible idea, they probably discuss it. And they probably work it out.

I think this is all just a matter of hyperbole. I'm sure you're right, that a writer had to write something he or she didn't particularly like, or an artist had to keep something in or leave something out against his or her wishes, and so on, but you are kind of blowing it out of proportion. I doubt anyone has any deep, philosophical issues with the game which have to be forced aside. It's perfectly reasonable to believe that this seasoned team of developers is capable of working together. Part of that, I'd assume, is trusting that your colleagues believe in their opinions just as much as you believe in yours, and therefore if you are overruled, it's probably for a good reason.

Ultimately, a manager will defer to the marketing experts over the dev team.  Its their (the marketing experts) job to figure out how to make the most money (and how to keep that income sustainable, if the executives don't plan on tanking a franchise for short term gain), and believe it or not, pleasing the fanbase is not always the best way to increase profit.

In fact, because of brand recognition, pleasing the fans (or "regular buyers") whims is often overridden by the prospect of bringing in new customers, since most of the old ones will buy it just for being part of the franchise they know and love.  All a casual fan needs to buy into drastic changes is to be thrown one or two bones, and they'll adjust to the changes and love the game anyway.

Modifié par Archereon, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:50 .

[errant_knight]

Meltemph wrote...

I don't think it is the fact that people complain, it is that most people who do complain have absolutely no substance to the complaints, with no real explanation of the why of that complaint. And then when you call them on those complaints, they either ignore you or make sure they pop in to tell you how wrong you are without telling how and why you are wrong.

You see it in this topic already, someone post something directly at the complainers who leave 0 substance and then they call him out for being annoying/obnoxious/not worth the time and ect. They are apparently willing to divulge, quite literally, MONTHS of complaining, but to actually respond to any substantial response to a large majority of the complainers is to ask for a miracle.

And honestly most of the complaints are completely ignorant to reality or, imo,  just really bad idea's. Suffice to say, I am glad the large majority of the constant whiners on this forum won't influence direction of the game cause it would be terrible otherwise. Now the legitimate complaints, with strong arguments, and well laid-out why's, and with a common sense approach I hope and plead the devs take serious. But it is so freaking hard, I would imagine, due to the other 90% of the rabble that you have to sift through to get good, well thought-out, suggestions or complaints.

Yeah, see that was me. And I've discussed things I don't like about the new style, and that I do, extensively, in multiple threads, and with people who both agree and disagree with me, as long as they're civil. I refused to discuss it with that person because they started out baiting and condescending and kept it up. That's my right, and it's not like I haven't explained myself fully all over the forum. You can disagree with points that have been made, here and elsewhere, but you can't say that they haven't been fully explained. Gameplay is subjective. What might be awesome to you is not necessarily awesome to others. No matter how much one may like something, another may not, and the back and forth 'you're stupid, no you're stupid' is a pointless waste of time. I can't convince you, you can't convince me, so perhaps we should just let each other have our say without heaping crap on each other.

Modifié par errant_knight, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:51 .

[SirOccam]

Archereon wrote...

Ultimately, a manager will defer to the marketing experts over the dev team.  Its their (the marketing experts) job to figure out how to make the most money (and how to keep that income sustainable, if the executives don't plan on tanking a franchise for short term gain), and believe it or not, pleasing the fanbase is not always the best way to increase profit.

In fact, because of brand recognition, pleasing the fans (or "regular buyers") whims is often overridden by the prospect of bringing in new customers, since most of the old ones will buy it just for being part of the franchise they know and love.

Even if all of that is true, it doesn't mean that there were any massive philosophical crises like you describe. And of course if a dev were to answer, you'd just say "but you have to say that." You're free to believe what you want, but you can also claim that there might be floating, invisible aliens all around us, but we can't see them because they're invisible. Any critique someone has with the idea, you can come up with a way for it to work, and yet...it doesn't mean they're actually there.

Maybe they're all pretty satisfied with the way things are going. My namesake likes this idea the best.

[henkez3]

I shall do what none has done before me and create a time-machine and go to march 11th and play this game!

[Perfecti0nist]

A dialogue wheel? OH GOD SAVE THE CHILDREN, THIS GAME IS MASS EFFECT WITH SWORDS.

You people should try some cheese with all that whine. Dragon Age 2 looks fantastic to me.

[Meltemph]

errant_knight wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I don't think it is the fact that people complain, it is that most people who do complain have absolutely no substance to the complaints, with no real explanation of the why of that complaint. And then when you call them on those complaints, they either ignore you or make sure they pop in to tell you how wrong you are without telling how and why you are wrong.

You see it in this topic already, someone post something directly at the complainers who leave 0 substance and then they call him out for being annoying/obnoxious/not worth the time and ect. They are apparently willing to divulge, quite literally, MONTHS of complaining, but to actually respond to any substantial response to a large majority of the complainers is to ask for a miracle.

And honestly most of the complaints are completely ignorant to reality or, imo,  just really bad idea's. Suffice to say, I am glad the large majority of the constant whiners on this forum won't influence direction of the game cause it would be terrible otherwise. Now the legitimate complaints, with strong arguments, and well laid-out why's, and with a common sense approach I hope and plead the devs take serious. But it is so freaking hard, I would imagine, due to the other 90% of the rabble that you have to sift through to get good, well thought-out, suggestions or complaints.

Yeah, see that was me. And I've discussed things I don't like about the new style, and that I do, extensively, in multiple threads, and with people who both agree and disagree with me, as long as they're civil. I refused to discuss it with that person because they started out baiting and condescending and kept it up. That's my right, and it's not like I haven't explained myself fully all over the forum. You can disagree with points that have been made, here and elsewhere, but you can't say that they haven't been fully explained. Gameplay is subjective. What might be awesome to you is not necessarily awesome to others. No matter how much one may like something, another may not, and the back and forth 'you're stupid, no you're stupid' is a pointless waste of time. I can't convince you, you can't convince me, so perhaps we should just let each other have our say without heaping crap on each other.

It does not change the fact that the massive large majority of complaints are essentially this crap:

All of the fears may prove to be right.

  And when people make these drive by lines, I don't care how long a person has been complaining or how many other threads they have said it.  There is just way to much crap for people to sift through to just "understand" the views of these people if the don't fill these stupid lines with actual substance.  It is as annoying as the "sounds superfantasticawesomo" crowd.  And if people want to leave posts like that, imo, better have thick skin because quite frankly these types of posts come across as nothing more then obnoxious "wana be game developers" trying to take jabs where they can.  

Which quite frankly is in the majority of the known "whiners" complaints.  Not to mention the huge desire to speak for other people be using the ever so popular, we/us/they/we all/our for a individual's opinion.  And quite frankly, I have only seen a small handful of actually good complaints where you would see those idea's applied, ever.

Can't get mad at people for not finding your "well thought-out complaints" before calling you out for lines with no substance.  He came across as obnoxious and condescending(and I agree he was) because you did as well.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 septembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[Archereon]

SirOccam wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Ultimately, a manager will defer to the marketing experts over the dev team.  Its their (the marketing experts) job to figure out how to make the most money (and how to keep that income sustainable, if the executives don't plan on tanking a franchise for short term gain), and believe it or not, pleasing the fanbase is not always the best way to increase profit.

In fact, because of brand recognition, pleasing the fans (or "regular buyers") whims is often overridden by the prospect of bringing in new customers, since most of the old ones will buy it just for being part of the franchise they know and love.

Even if all of that is true, it doesn't mean that there were any massive philosophical crises like you describe. And of course if a dev were to answer, you'd just say "but you have to say that." You're free to believe what you want, but you can also claim that there might be floating, invisible aliens all around us, but we can't see them because they're invisible. Any critique someone has with the idea, you can come up with a way for it to work, and yet...it doesn't mean they're actually there.

Maybe they're all pretty satisfied with the way things are going. My namesake likes this idea the best.

That's a hyperbolic analogy you got there.  Floating invisible aliens have pretty much no evidence.  On the other hand, there are quite a few examples of video game devs who badmouthed games they worked on after leaving the company voluntarily.

[Meltemph]

That's a hyperbolic analogy you got there. Floating invisible aliens have pretty much no evidence. On the other hand, there are quite a few examples of video game devs who badmouthed games they worked on after leaving the company voluntarily.

How can you take those type of complaints with any more faith then the other-side of the equation? Either way the consumer does not really have the information to make that judgement either way. You are asking a question that can't have any real answer outside of just looking at the market and assume from that what people want in games.



There is really no real answer that can satisfy you in any realistic way.