59 réponses à ce sujet

[ScroguBlitzen]

Using a Sentinel on Insanity I ran tests on how long it takes to take out a YMIR Mech using each of these skills. (I did not test Incinerate, but it should be roughly equivalent to Heavy Warp vs a YMIR Mech)

A YMIR Mech seems to have:

• 6000 Shields
• 6000 Armor
• 1500 Health

Heavy Overload with 5/5 Tech Damage:

• Shields = 10 Shots
• Armor = 20 Shots
• Health = 5 Shots
• Total = 35 Shots

Heavy Warp with 5/5 Biotic Damage

• Shields = 20 Shots
• Armor = 10 Shots
• Health = 5 Shots
• Total = 35 Shots

Heavy Reave with 5/5 Biotic Damage

• Shields = 18.5 Shots
• Armor = 9.25 Shots
• Health = 4.25 Shots (You have to wait 5 seconds each shot for full affect vs health)
• Total = 32 Shots

So basically, vs YMIR mechs, all the Heavy versions are basically comparable.
Vs Loki mechs that only have shields and armor, Warp and Reave are both going to be better than Overload.
Vs Geth that are mostly all shielded, Overload is going to be better.
Vs Blue Sun mooks, any of the heavy skills will take down their shields completely anyways and leave them at health.

When playing a Sentinel that has access to both Warp and Overload, I can't really justify putting 10 points into Overload.  I don't really care for the overheating/disabling affect, and it's only significantly better vs Geth and it doesn't do any damage at all vs organic health or biotic barriers.

In fact, any class that has access to Incinerate or doesn't mind picking up Reave is probably better off avoiding Overload.

Here is the build I'm using on my Sentinel:  http://mass-relay.com/talents/calculator?c=sentinel&b=armor-piercing-ammo&p=4,4,4,1,0,4,4

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 18 septembre 2010 - 08:22 .

[sinosleep]

I don't really understand the significance of them all winding up at around the same number of total shots, all that shows is that they are all equally **** at stripping defenses they aren't meant to be stripping. Also, with regards to mooks and shields, what difficulty are you playing on? I have NEVER stripped merc shields in one shot of anything not named overload/energy drain so I don't really get that last comment at all either.

If there's any reason to not take overload damage isn't it. The fact that you have 15 squadmates with access to it is.

Modifié par sinosleep, 18 septembre 2010 - 08:24 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

sinosleep wrote...

I don't really understand the significance of them all winding up at around the same number of total shots,

I should've made that clearer.  I used to think (and I suspect that some others may as well) that Overload is the go-to power vs mechs.  You would expect it to take out a mech faster than Warp, but it generally doesn't.  This message is primarily intended for those people that think that Overload is better against mechs than Warp.

I only bother playing on Insanity, and an upgraded Heavy Warp generally destroys a single Blue Sun mooks shields. (Maybe not 100% but pretty close.)  The real advantage vs mooks is AREA Overload but it's just not good enough for it's situational uses to be worth 10 points IMO. 

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 18 septembre 2010 - 08:30 .

[sinosleep]

Wait, you're talking about people who thought you should keep on overloading mechs even after the shields are gone? Or mechs that don't even have shields?

[Bozorgmehr]

I don't get this either, why is overload not worth it? All 3 powers have same base damage, but level 1 Overload will inflict more damage against shields than Heavy Warp/Reave plus it detonates Pyros. A skill point well spend.

[Autoclave]

i like that overload is instant cast. That's why i tend to use my team mates warp instead of mine.

[PsyrenY]

The benefit to Overload is that it deals a ton of damage to shields (particularly the area version vs. a merc pack) without you having to hang your ass out of cover while under fire like you would with a Tempest/Locust. You're not supposed to be killing mechs with it.Guns are intended for use in ME2, even on the "casters."

[StarcloudSWG]

That's why you do the following:

Overload to take out the shields. Reave/Warp to take out the armor. And then all of them to blow out the health.



Pretty much all your numbers say is that Overload sucks vs. armor and Reave/Warp suck vs. Shielding.

[PsyrenY]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Pretty much all your numbers say is that Overload sucks vs. armor and Reave/Warp suck vs. Shielding.

A revelation indeed

[Tony Gunslinger]

Not saying overload sucks, but for a sentinel, you can survive long enough to whip out a warp + warp ammo combo that deals more damage vs. everything than overload + regular weapon vs. specific enemies. You'd think you want to max overload and warp on a sentinal, but you'd be giving up on a max bonus power. If overload doesn't perform as well as warp + warp ammo, then I'd throw out overload.

[Hathur]

You realize that if you maxe overload and warp, you'll be killing any target far faster than just maxing 1 of those skills, right?



Overload the target's shields to 0.

Warp the armor to 0.

Warp or shoot the health to 0.



If you only had warp, you'd be spending far more time on shields... if you only had overload, you'd be spending far more time on armor.



Maxing both is a perfectly sound plan.



Also - you neglected to mention that Reave has around double the recharge time of warp or overload.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Hathur wrote...

You realize that if you maxe overload and warp, you'll be killing any target far faster than just maxing 1 of those skills, right?

Overload the target's shields to 0.
Warp the armor to 0.
Warp or shoot the health to 0.

If you only had warp, you'd be spending far more time on shields... if you only had overload, you'd be spending far more time on armor.

Maxing both is a perfectly sound plan.

Also - you neglected to mention that Reave has around double the recharge time of warp or overload.

vs. Shields. If you don't max overload, then you can get heavy warp ammo, which will do 2x weapon damage when the target is exposed to biotic powers, like warp. Less damage vs. shields at first, more damage from weapon for a short time period later. Net-net, they're at either least equal, or the difference is so little that it doesn't matter for a sentinel. Granted that overload has a faster CD is instant, so it has its advantages. On my insanity run both are equal when vs. shields.

Joe Sentinel (heavy overoad + heavy warp)
Tom Sentinel (heavy warp + heavy warp ammo)

vs. merc goons --- (tie)

vs. merc bosses --- (tie)

vs. YMIR --- (tie)

vs. droids --- Joe

vs. geth --- Joe

vs. missile platforms --- Joe

vs. collectors --- Tom

vs. harbinger --- Tom

vs. husks -- Tom

vs. Scions --- Tom

vs. Praetorians - Tom

edit: just want to add that overload is a must at the beginning because the lack of biotic upgrades.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 18 septembre 2010 - 11:34 .

[sinosleep]

I think your math is off Tony. You only get the damage bonus when the target is ragdolled, not just cause you cast a biotic ability on them. So unless your target is pulled, lift portion of slam, or in a singularity I really don't think the numbers match up. It's the same thing as warp explosions, the description says it goes off from two biotic attacks clashing, but you can't use dominate or reave to cast warp explosions. It's only biotics that ragdoll.

Modifié par sinosleep, 18 septembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[swk3000]

sinosleep wrote...

Wait, you're talking about people who thought you should keep on overloading mechs even after the shields are gone? Or mechs that don't even have shields?

The description on Overload makes it sound like it deals extra damage to synthetic enemies, even if they have defenses up. I don't know whether this is actually the case, but the tooltip makes it sound like an excellent ability against synthetics, and I've heard nothing on the forums to contradict this until now.

[sinosleep]

It didn't take me long to realize that using the proper one shot defense stripping tool instead of repeatedly spamming overload was the way to go. Judging by the comments here most people came to the same realization. I don't think there's been many threads on it cause it's kind of obvious, tool tip or no tool tip.

[swk3000]

I haven't been spamming Overload on synthetic enemies myself (I mainly favor just shooting them), but I figured it would be a good idea to at least point it out.

[Tony Gunslinger]

sinosleep wrote...

I think your math is off Tony. You only get the damage bonus when the target is ragdolled, not just cause you cast a biotic ability on them. So unless your target is pulled, lift portion of slam, or in a singularity I really don't think the numbers match up. It's the same thing as warp explosions, the description says it goes off from two biotic attacks clashing, but you can't use dominate or reave to cast warp explosions. It's only biotics that ragdoll.

Well that that totally blows, and the in-game description is incorrect. Warp ammo then has extra health dmg to "targets affected by biotics," just "incapacitated targets", a bonus you get without any ammo powers.

[sinosleep]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Well that that totally blows, and the in-game description is incorrect. Warp ammo then has extra health dmg to "targets affected by biotics," just "incapacitated targets", a bonus you get without any ammo powers.

Well, you still get the other benefits of flat damage bonus to health, armor, and barrier and it continues to be the most versitle (2 defenses and a health effect) even if the additional ragdoll damage is kinda pointless since ragdolled targets already die in no time.

[ScroguBlitzen]

swk3000 wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Wait, you're talking about people who thought you should keep on overloading mechs even after the shields are gone? Or mechs that don't even have shields?

The description on Overload makes it sound like it deals extra damage to synthetic enemies, even if they have defenses up. I don't know whether this is actually the case, but the tooltip makes it sound like an excellent ability against synthetics, and I've heard nothing on the forums to contradict this until now.

This.

I also always sort of assumed that it was going to be a bit better vs mechs than other powers.  This may be obvious to some people, but it wasn't obvious to me.

For myself, I find that any class that has access to either Warp or Incinerate should take and max them first.  Only after that should they consider maxing Overload.  On my Sentinel I found myself not missing Overload at all.  If I roll with Heavy Warp and take Thane with Heavy Warp and Samara with Area Reave then we destroy collectors or anything else armored and shields come down pretty quickly as well.

It's not that I don't think Overload is useful. I do, it's just much more situational and since a Sentinel or Engineer have so many skills anyways, I prefer an Ammor power like AP maxed and helping 100% of the time rather than Overload maxed and only working effectively 20% of the time.

[sinosleep]

I don't remember what thread it was in but we did a count of how many missions featured collectors, geth, bloodpack, eclipse, and blue suns mercs and came to the conclusion that shields were far and away the most common defense in the game. Reave and warp work wonders on collectors but you face them all of twice in the entire game. And I personally find warp to be a far better utilized in conjunction with warp explosions than simply as a single target defense stripper. If I'm going to be using team mates primarily to strip defenses I'm not going to be rolling with warpers, incinerate is better against armor and overload is better against shields.

Modifié par sinosleep, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:40 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

You're right that you face more shields than barriers, BUT I find that a disproportionately large amount of my deaths have historically been against Collectors/Scions/Praetorians/Husks. Warp or even Incinerate are great against most of those enemies but Overload is worthless. Blue sun mercs are just fodder. They never charge, advance or surround you. Overload is not really a lifesaver here, it just speeds things up. The YMIR mechs are dangerous if you're in the open, but they are easily kited and 3 pulls of the Arc weapon removes their shields and saves me 10 points in Overload.

I don't really think too much about Warp as just a defense stripper. It's just like an extra attack that you mix in with your regular shooting whenever it's off cooldown. It ALWAYS does damage. You don't have to swap from Overload on shields to something else once their down. If my powers are too situational then I sometimes forget to use them and waste lot's of cooldowns. If my powers are useful in all situations then I find myself using them alot more often (like every cooldown) and being more effective overall.

I find Warp Explosions a better tactic on my Adept. My Sentinel is quicker with Heavy Warp and a Throw once their defenses are down.

Your mileage may differ, but on the XBox 360 we only have 2 mapped positions for powers, so it's nice to just put Throw on the left bumper and Warp on the right bumper (Sentinel). Every power is easily available and will always be useful. Overload would be better sometimes, but not enough to compare to 10 points in Armor Piercing Ammo.

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 19 septembre 2010 - 03:18 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

Double Post

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 19 septembre 2010 - 03:16 .

[mosor]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

You're right that you face more shields than barriers, BUT I find that a disproportionately large amount of my deaths have historically been against Collectors/Scions/Praetorians/Husks. Warp or even Incinerate are great against most of those enemies but Overload is worthless. Blue sun mercs are just fodder. They never charge, advance or surround you. Overload is not really a lifesaver here, it just speeds things up. The YMIR mechs are dangerous if you're in the open, but they are easily kited and 3 pulls of the Arc weapon removes their shields and saves me 10 points in Overload.

I don't really think too much about Warp as just a defense stripper. It's just like an extra attack that you mix in with your regular shooting whenever it's off cooldown. It ALWAYS does damage. You don't have to swap from Overload on shields to something else once their down. If my powers are too situational then I sometimes forget to use them and waste lot's of cooldowns. If my powers are useful in all situations then I find myself using them alot more often (like every cooldown) and being more effective overall.

I find Warp Explosions a better tactic on my Adept. My Sentinel is quicker with Heavy Warp and a Throw once their defenses are down.

Your mileage may differ, but on the XBox 360 we only have 2 mapped positions for powers, so it's nice to just put Throw on the left bumper and Warp on the right bumper (Sentinel). Every power is easily available and will always be useful. Overload would be better sometimes, but not enough to compare to 10 points in Armor Piercing Ammo.

Why not just use the advanced training option and take overload or energy drain on missions with a lot of shields and reave or warp on missions with barrier or armor? IMHO though warp alone is a terrible option to use on health. I'd rather just shoot if I'm not gonna combo it up with another person's pull.

Modifié par mosor, 19 septembre 2010 - 03:24 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

mosor wrote...

Why not just use the advanced training option and take overload or energy drain on missions with a lot of shields and reave or warp on missions with barrier or armor? IMHO though warp alone is a terrible option to use on health. I'd rather just shoot if I'm not gonna combo it up with another person's pull.

I don't really like using the retraining option for immersion reasons.  I don't use Warp on health alone (but it doesn't hurt if it digs into it), I use throw to finish them.  It's just kind of fun on a Sentinel.

[mosor]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

mosor wrote...

Why not just use the advanced training option and take overload or energy drain on missions with a lot of shields and reave or warp on missions with barrier or armor? IMHO though warp alone is a terrible option to use on health. I'd rather just shoot if I'm not gonna combo it up with another person's pull.

I don't really like using the retraining option for immersion reasons.  I don't use Warp on health alone (but it doesn't hurt if it digs into it), I use throw to finish them.  It's just kind of fun on a Sentinel.

If you want a build that does anything to anything you should try this one:


4 Throw Field
4 Assault Armor
4 Warp
1 Overload
4 Guardian
4 Area Drain

Squad incindiary or disruptor is good enough on a sentinel. You don't need AP ammo. On collector missions or reaper IFF, I switch to area reave. Since you don't like switching, you can leave it as is, or go with 4 overload and 4 area reave instead of energy drain and warp.

Area overload can be really helpful even on collector missions. Strip a couple collectors with area reave, use area overload and neither will shoot you for a few seconds while you take them out. If you're going with power armor instead of assault armor, overload overheating guns can be really useful because nothing is more annoying than having your power armor go down and having to wait 6 seconds to recharge

Modifié par mosor, 19 septembre 2010 - 03:58 .