59 réponses à ce sujet

[lazuli]

sinosleep wrote...

It didn't take me long to realize that using the proper one shot defense stripping tool instead of repeatedly spamming overload was the way to go. Judging by the comments here most people came to the same realization. I don't think there's been many threads on it cause it's kind of obvious, tool tip or no tool tip.

It helps that the powers that will be ineffective against your current target are colored red.

[PsyrenY]

Hathur wrote...

Also - you neglected to mention that Reave has around double the recharge time of warp or overload.

That's a wash, or near enough - Reave also has no travel time and begins recharging immediately. You can also use Reave more safely than Warp with your shields down (thanks to the healing effect) without waiting for them to recharge.

[ScroguBlitzen]

mosor wrote...

If you want a build that does anything to anything you should try this one:

4 Throw Field
4 Assault Armor
4 Warp
1 Overload
4 Guardian
4 Area Drain

Squad incindiary or disruptor is good enough on a sentinel. You don't need AP ammo.

I prefer

4 Heavy Throw
4 Assault Armor
4 Heavy Warp
1 Overload (Wasted point basically)
4 Guardian
4 Armor Piercing

Zaeed with Squad Disruptor, Garrus with Area Overload and you with Arc Projector is more than enough overkill on shield heavy levels.

lazuli wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

It didn't take me long to realize that using the proper one shot defense stripping tool instead of repeatedly spamming overload was the way to go. Judging by the comments here most people came to the same realization. I don't think there's been many threads on it cause it's kind of obvious, tool tip or no tool tip.

It helps that the powers that will be ineffective against your current target are colored red.

@lazuli-  powers that are red are NOT necessarily ineffective.  They are just not maximally effective.
For instance: Heavy Warp does a listed 200 damage normally right?  How much damage does it do against shields?  200 damage.  I would not call doing your listed damage to be ineffective.  Warp does double to armor and barriers, but it still only does base to health... but it doesn't show up as red on health does it?  Warp, Reave and Incinerate always do at least their base damage to EVERYTHING.  The only power that is actually ever ineffective is Overload vs any organic target without shields (not counting weapon overheating).

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 19 septembre 2010 - 04:31 .

[PsyrenY]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...
Warp does double to armor and barriers, but it still only does base to health... but it doesn't show up as red on health does it?

That's a bad example actually. Warp is very useful against health because it stops regenerating (e.g. Krogan and Vorcha.)

[brfritos]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

I don't really understand the significance of them all winding up at around the same number of total shots,

I should've made that clearer.  I used to think (and I suspect that some others may as well) that Overload is the go-to power vs mechs.  You would expect it to take out a mech faster than Warp, but it generally doesn't.  This message is primarily intended for those people that think that Overload is better against mechs than Warp.

I only bother playing on Insanity, and an upgraded Heavy Warp generally destroys a single Blue Sun mooks shields. (Maybe not 100% but pretty close.)  The real advantage vs mooks is AREA Overload but it's just not good enough for it's situational uses to be worth 10 points IMO. 

I'm afraid you're missing the point, my friend.
Of course you're talking about individual powers and their effectiveness, but that's not how the game works.

Incinerate level 3 puts a warp/reave level 4 in a pocket against armor, for example.

Incinerate level 3 = 170.00 points over 3.00 seconds = 520.00
Heavy Warp (level 4) = 200.00 points (* 2) = 400.00
Heavy Reave (level 4) = 40.00 points over 5.50 seconds = 220.00 (*2) = 440.00

Overload has a important function that you're forgeting, on level 3 it overheat enemy weapons, so they don't shoot at you.

I still think that overload and disruptor ammo at level 4 is a waste and sentinels can handle both tech and biotic powers, so all of them are affected by your cooldowns, including reave.
Personally I spend the remaining points adding Slam, Neural Shock or Stasis, the last one being really situational, usually i pick the first ones.

Neural Shock in rank two paralyzes the target and permanently impairs his accuracy.
Slam in level two briefly incapacitate the target, so you can concentrate in other enemies (or finish him, for example)

Also, that's why you have a squad, so Miranda and you can complement each other stripping the Ymir shields and Mordin can help you stripping the armor.
Then a single overload in the Ymir pretty much finish him, since he can't fire at you.

And concerning the Blue Sun shields you reffered from, a level 3 overload do the same thing your level 4 warp did, mostly stripping the entire shield.

[ScroguBlitzen]

brfritos wrote...

Incinerate level 3 puts a warp/reave level 4 in a pocket against armor, for example.

Incinerate level 3 = 170.00 points over 3.00 seconds = 520.00
Heavy Warp (level 4) = 200.00 points (* 2) = 400.00
Heavy Reave (level 4) = 40.00 points over 5.50 seconds = 220.00 (*2) = 440.00

Overload has a important function that you're forgeting, on level 3 it overheat enemy weapons, so they don't shoot at you.

Incinerate 3 is 170 points TOTAL. NOT 170 points per second.  It is also double damage vs Armor so it's damage is 340 at level 3.

Also, I am not overlooking or forgetting about overheating.  I just don't care for the mechanic much.  I want enemies DEAD as soon as possible.  An effect that staggers or stuns them in place will help me shoot them, and that is useful but the weapon overheat is pretty close to worthless for me.

[godlike13]

Against Armor, Incinerate level 3 = 170.00 * 2.4 = 408.

Modifié par godlike13, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:34 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

godlike13 wrote...

Against Armor, Incinerate level 3 = 170.00 * 2.4 = 408.

Where are you getting 2.4 from?

[godlike13]

Here

Modifié par godlike13, 20 septembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[Zan Mura]

In my opinion none of this matters in pre-Insanity. And in Insanity you'd do well to bring both Warp and Overload anyway. Overload can do AoE without any prerequisite defense stripping and pull/singularity, and is enough by itself to make any shield-affecting ammo useless. I'm not even sure I would recommend Warp at all were it not compulsory due to my adept toon.

[BewareTheDrow]

I'm the black sheep, i tend to go with a build like this:



Throw: 3

Warp: 3

Tech Armor: 4

Overload: 3

Cryo Blast: 2

Defender: 4

AP Ammo: 4



I tried this build just for kicks one evening and found that I liked it quite a bit. The damage difference between heavy/normal warp/overload is significant, but it wasn't game breaking for me. Overload and warp still do their job, at least on hardcore and below, and its nice having a wide selection of toys.

[termokanden]

You could have kept Throw at 2 and Cryo Blast at 1 and still have had Heavy Warp.

But then again I'm not a fan of Throw beyond it's Husk killing capabilities, and I am not a fan of Cryo Blast at all.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:54 .

[ScroguBlitzen]

BewareTheDrow wrote...

I'm the black sheep, i tend to go with a build like this:

Throw: 3
Warp: 3
Tech Armor: 4
Overload: 3
Cryo Blast: 2
Defender: 4
AP Ammo: 4

I tried this build just for kicks one evening and found that I liked it quite a bit. The damage difference between heavy/normal warp/overload is significant, but it wasn't game breaking for me. Overload and warp still do their job, at least on hardcore and below, and its nice having a wide selection of toys.

That build is pretty good, but if you're going to get level 3 Overload you might as well get the Area version at 4.

Just drop Throw to 2 and Cryo to 1 and get Area Overload.

@Godlike-  looks like you're right, Incinerate is 2.4 vs armor.  I knew there was a reason I love it on my Infiltrators.

[PsyrenY]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@Godlike-  looks like you're right, Incinerate is 2.4 vs armor.  I knew there was a reason I love it on my Infiltrators.

I prefer it on Engineers; it doesn't do anything much on Infiltrators that Widow and Viper don't do better.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Optimystic_X wrote...

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@Godlike-  looks like you're right, Incinerate is 2.4 vs armor.  I knew there was a reason I love it on my Infiltrators.

I prefer it on Engineers; it doesn't do anything much on Infiltrators that Widow and Viper don't do better.

Yes it does.  It saves ammo, and Incineration Blast is AOE.
(Also, I haven't played Engineer yet, I'm going to start one today.  It's my final class to do Insanity on, just finished my Sentinel run.)

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 20 septembre 2010 - 06:42 .

[PsyrenY]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

Yes it does.  It saves ammo, and Incineration Blast is AOE.
(Also, I haven't played Engineer yet, I'm going to start one today.  It's my final class to do Insanity on, just finished my Sentinel run.)

I find that ammo is only a problem with Mantis and Incisor - neither of which you should be using anyway (once you have a choice that is.) So Incinerate is useful until you get Widow/Viper, then you can safely respec and toss it.

At least, it WOULD be useful, except you are better off maxing Cloak, Operative and Disruptor/Warp first, and by then you should at least have the Viper (making ammo a non-issue.)

Furthermore:

1) Every cooldown you blow on Incinerate is one you are not using to Cloak or Unity;
2) The 10 points you sank into Incinerate Blast could do just as much crowd control good in Squad Cryo, or your bonus power if you already have that.

[ScroguBlitzen]

To each their own. Incineration blast is one of the best powers in the game and is just plain fun to use.



You can call squad cryo crowd control If you want but it's still not an AOE defense stripper like incineration blast.

[PsyrenY]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

To each their own. Incineration blast is one of the best powers in the game and is just plain fun to use.

I'm not disputing that at all. I just don't use it on my Infiltrator. It's pretty awesome on my Engi (and Mordin), I agree.

[BewareTheDrow]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

BewareTheDrow wrote...

I'm the black sheep, i tend to go with a build like this:

Throw: 3
Warp: 3
Tech Armor: 4
Overload: 3
Cryo Blast: 2
Defender: 4
AP Ammo: 4

I tried this build just for kicks one evening and found that I liked it quite a bit. The damage difference between heavy/normal warp/overload is significant, but it wasn't game breaking for me. Overload and warp still do their job, at least on hardcore and below, and its nice having a wide selection of toys.

That build is pretty good, but if you're going to get level 3 Overload you might as well get the Area version at 4.

Just drop Throw to 2 and Cryo to 1 and get Area Overload.

@Godlike-  looks like you're right, Incinerate is 2.4 vs armor.  I knew there was a reason I love it on my Infiltrators.

Thats a good point. My old build used to max everything, with 1 point in overload and zero in cryo. Ever since I started playing with cryo blast its been hard not to have at least a few points in it.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Have never used cryo blast much. My next run is going to be my first Engineer so I plan on trying out a maxxed area Cryo blast and Incineration blast.

[PsyrenY]

I dislike Cryo because (a) Shep's has travel time (and the projectile is pretty slow), ( it does nothing to protected enemies (Throw Field at least makes a group of them stagger while I retreat, and has a blazing fast cooldown), and © it makes them fall behind cover, which sucks when you're using the Viper.

Not to mention that if you DO use cryo, you really want to max it for the Area version. Hell, its duration doesn't even last past its cooldown until you sink 6 points in.

[sinosleep]

I'm of the opinion that deep cryo is better than full cryo. I know that on my engineer I couldn't kill all the frozen targets before they thawed out with the aoe version. With the single target version though I could freeze a guy, forget about him for a while, freeze another one, go back to the first kill him and go back the second guy and kill him as well. It's especially useful when you consider the fact that usually if a group is bunched up enough for the aoe version to work they are bunched up enough for the default aoe on the single target version to work.

[clennon8]

I'm not a huge fan of taking AP Ammo as my bonus power unless I'm playing an Infiltrator. Too narrow. I'd much rather just bring along Grunt or Jacob for Incendiary Ammo, or Jack for Warp Ammo. The Sentinel build mosor recommended is perfect. I've played that build before, and it's the best one I've found.

[PsyrenY]

It's one of the best ASSAULT builds. I think casters can do better with a Viper and either Squad AP Ammo or Reave.

@sino: you're right, Deep Cryo can be more effective - I forgot that cryo has built-in AoE unlike Throw. Timing foes to be clustered for a freeze can be tricky with the travel factored in though.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[BewareTheDrow]

You know these neat discussions would all be moot if we could get two more skill points.