136 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

I don't trust Xen. I found her to be an interesting character, but aside from the ethical reasons, you can't rely on her cunning to achieve successful geth control.

[Xilizhra]

For all that you tell us Paragons that we're too trusting, you're sure quick to put your faith in shady megalomaniacs.

[Nightwriter]

I don't think it's very smart to send a potential threat an email warning them that you're a potential threat.

[Whatever42]

Xilizhra wrote...

Three of four? Shala'Raan is neutral but would probably go with Koris with Rael dead. Han'Garrel wants war but seems quite rational, and if convinced that peace really was possible, I think he'd back down. Xen is the only crazily driven one.

Shala'Raan will go with the majority and the majority wants conflict with the Geth. But, I agree, swing Han'Garrel and you swing the whole admiralty. So maybe we can let him live. Xen definitely gets a bullet, though. 

[DPSSOC]

My main problem with Xen's plan is that the cost of failure is essentially Gerrel's plan which, as I've stated in other threads, strikes me more as a final rebellious act of a broken prisoner than a cohesive strategy. So I'd really only ever support Xen's plan if it could be shown that Gerrel's is viable, and Xen's is just an attempt to achieve the same end with fewer casualties..

[Xilizhra]

Shala'Raan will go with the majority and the majority wants conflict with the Geth. But, I agree, swing Han'Garrel and you swing the whole admiralty. So maybe we can let him live. Xen definitely gets a bullet, though.

Garrel and Xen don't agree on how, though, so Raan won't go with either one just yet. Garrel's the main target of opportunity for conversion, certainly.

So she's got an ego, that says nothing about her scientific expertise or her ability to command.

It certainly doesn't say anything good about either.

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I don't think it's very smart to send a potential threat an email warning them that you're a potential threat.

So she's got an ego, that says nothing about her scientific expertise or her ability to command.

It's not smart.

[Nightwriter]

Then there's the ethics reason. Yes, that little snag.

[DPSSOC]

Shandepared wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

My main problem with Xen's plan is that the cost of failure is essentially Gerrel's plan which, as I've stated in other threads, strikes me more as a final rebellious act of a broken prisoner than a cohesive strategy.

If you can't get Xen's plan to work in the lab then you don't go to war.

Well of course but what I'm saying is if it works in the lab and they implement the plan and for whatever reason it doesn't work in the field (wouldn't be the first time).  As I said earlier you're probably only going to get 1 shot and if that fails they will either A) adapt and all your work's down the drain and/or attack the Quarians.  So if the Quarians aren't ready or able to take on the Geth in battle they really shouldn't try Xen's rewrite because if it fails, and even the best laid plan can, the most likely outcome is war.  Maybe I worry too much but I always believe you should have multiple contingencies prepared for any action you choose to take.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 19 septembre 2010 - 02:13 .

[Pacifien]

Shandepared wrote...
If you can't get Xen's plan to work in the lab then you don't go to war.

And if Xen's plan continues to fail in the lab, what would you have the quarians do? Wander around for another 300 years?

[DPSSOC]

Shandepared wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...


Well of course but what I'm saying is if it works in the lab and they implement the plan and for whatever reason it doesn't work in the field...

So we're playing the "what if" game I see. Okay the, "what if" the quarians make peace with the geth and then the geth deicde to kill them anyway? At least with war the uncertainty is removed.

You should always consider at least a few what if's when a situation can get violent.  Even with the peace option I'd never suggest they cease military production or readiness just because peace talks are taking place or even after they're successful.  To use a real world example Canada and the United States have been on good terms for ages and will no doubt continue to be on good terms but I'm sure both governments are prepared in the event the other attempts to invade.  Peace in most cases just means you stop pointing your guns at one another you don't put them away.

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

My main problem with Xen's plan is that the cost of failure is essentially Gerrel's plan which, as I've stated in other threads, strikes me more as a final rebellious act of a broken prisoner than a cohesive strategy.

If you can't get Xen's plan to work in the lab then you don't go to war.

Thing is that complicated things like hacking all Geth needs to be tested on a large scale before you can claim that it's are a effective method. And since Geth are very many, widespread and fast to adapt (as Rael Zorah learned the hard way) you only get one chance. So Xen, interesting as she is, have only a pipe dream to threaten Shepard and the geth with at the moment.

Both the geth and quarians are interesting races with more in common than differences and I don't see why I, or the human outsider Shepard, should have to pick a favourite. No matter who thinks they are right or wrong the Geth are the much stronger at the moment so it would be unwise for the quarians to threaten them. In any case Shepard will need all the allies he/she can get when the Reapers come so it would be a shame if they weakened or destroyed eachothers right now. After the reapers are defeated they should solve their conflict in whatever way they think is best though, humans should interfere as little as possible.

[Xilizhra]

How are you going to capture server hubs? They're the equivalent of mortal cities, and they were only on the heretic station because it was their main base of operations.

[Nightwriter]

It just seems like a big risk to take considering peace seems quite possible, and would work out better for all.

Though I understand that you are not opposed to peace should the mind-control plan fail, or become too dangerous to execute. I am just puzzled at why peace is not your first choice.

[Moiaussi]

Shandepared wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

And if Xen's plan continues to fail in the lab, what would you have the quarians do? Wander around for another 300 years?

Find another place to settle.

What is your time limit before settling?

[jbblue05]

Moiaussi wrote...

Shepard couldn't save several of those 'everyone' either. Why would you assume it was Tali in charge tacticly? She had her part of the mission and Kal was likely in charge of the rest. Also her communications seemed very limited. She is communicating only through the internal com unit of that base, likely because it is a land line and the Geth are less likely to be tapped into it.

Also. that mission *is* in Geth space, and we don't know how many the Quarians already took down.

Its pretty obvious she was in charge on Freedoms Progress. she told Shepard the plan and told Prazza to fall in line The mission on Haestrom centered around Tali and if it wasn't for Shepard she would've been killed

She wants war with the Geth but is not reckless about it. What you see as 'not having a plan' she sees as 'not endangering the fleet. Meanwhile she was assisting her father. Why should she be pursuing a plan of her own?

She's not reckless because she has no plan she's just a follower. She endangered the fleet by sending Geth material to her father.  If she didn't run off with Shepard she could've intervened to stop the experiments.  Tali joined Shepard because she's tired of everyone dying around her.

And Shepard could keep Conrad Verner in check so easily, short of shooting him? Despite considerable more experience as a field commander? Or for that matter, Jenkins? I still maintain that Prazza was tactical commander.

That's a weak argument.  Shepard has no responsibility over Verner.  Shepard used correct squad commands Jenkins just had bad luck.  Tali was in charge its so obvious.

That isn't a contradiction though. Having both isn't a detriment. If her losses are held against her, then it begs the question of how other Quarians would have done under similar circumstances.  A couple Quarian units were sent in to attempt to recover the Geth occupied vessel in Tali's loyalty mission. Have you considered that the problem might not be Tali, but simply a general lack of Quarian military discipline?

Shepard gets things done despite impossible odds. 
Tali's losses should be held against her its a chance for Tali to prove her capabilites as a leader and she failed miserably and had her ass saved by Shepard twice.   Tali is part of the Quarian Military so you're saying she's undisciplined also.  The Quarians are a doomed race and Tali hasn't shown anyting suggesting she can "right the ship".

Knowledge. She knows the Geth better than any surviving Quarian (possibly even better than her dad did, since he only had rebuilt models likely with corrupted software... she has routinely faced active Geth in the field), and she understands the Reaper threat, which supercedes any conflict with the Geth, or at least should.

She has shown she's a capable fighter under Shepard's command.  If she knows so much about the Geth she should have been in the research lab with her dad and not playing around with Normandy's engines
I'm sure Tali isn't the only Quarian who survived a fight with the Geth.  Dano Xen seems to know a lot about the Geth also.
The whole Admirality Board recognizes the Reaper threat if you read Ascension