133 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

David Gaider wrote...

Hey, if enough DA fans get themselves worked up into a self-entitled frenzy after DA2 comes out, such that they make it extremely unpleasant for us to be anywhere near these forums, expect us to do the same.

It wouldn't hurt if these forums exercised the banhammer more with clearly inflammatory posters.  I think we all know more than a few people who never contribute positively to any discussions and solely troll.

Hell, it's starting to look like you can do or say anything you want around here and so long as you don't post obscene pictures and spam people's comments page, you won't get in trouble.

That's not to say you should automatically silence the dissenters, but it's becoming more and more rare where someone will disagree politely and actually add something to a discussion.

[Heavenblade]

I politely agree Maverick. These forums are terrible. But I disagree that it is trolls that ruin it. It's all the boring discussions taking place in it. At least the trolls, though stupid, are entertaining. I almost fall asleep when I come to the DA2 forums. It's all either the estrogen brigade stuff, or people asking questions that have already been answered, or people asking for things to be like exactly every other game they have played. A bit of trolling is actually refreshing.



That said, I loved the writing for Mass Effect and was kind of ambivalent about the writing for ME2.

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
Fans rightfully criticised ME2's poor story, continuity, lack of respect for previous characters, and terrible implementation of much hyped consequences of choices carrying over from Mass Effect and the writers ran to the hills to drink champagne with "professional" critics.

Hey, if enough DA fans get themselves worked up into a self-entitled frenzy after DA2 comes out, such that they make it extremely unpleasant for us to be anywhere near these forums, expect us to do the same.

I'd find that unlikely in this case...um....well...Let me change that to "less likely".  DA2  is clearly going to have a new character, new story, new storytelling method.  And everyone is all up front about it.  Anyone who's going to freak out about the changes probably already has.  ME 2 was ostensibly part two of a trilogy featuring the same character continuing through a multipart story.  Yeah, some of us got a litttle steamed about how that turned out .

But I, of course am the epitome of politeness

[David Gaider]

WilliamShatner wrote...
If the writers and makers of the game can take praise from me calling Mass Effect the best game I have ever played then they can equally take criticism when I call ME2 the most disappointing and soul-crushing sequel since Alien 3.

You can't take one and leave the other.

Actually, we can. We'll talk to whomever we feel like talking to, and are under no obligation to chime in on discussions that are unpleasant or even overly negative. I do it sometimes, but most of the people at work think I'm crazy... and to be honest most of the times I do it I feel like I'm talking to a wall anyhow. Or I become upset enough that it would probably have been better for me to just walk away.

Criticism is great, if it can be voiced in a way that is still reasonable and leaves room for some discussion. If there's no room for discussion, however, then don't expect any from us. If you're just here to spout your opinions, you have every right to do so-- but you're not entitled to interaction with a developer unless you're nice.

In other words: don't be a freak. We don't talk to freaks unless they're at the very least entertaining.

[David Gaider]

iakus wrote...
I'd find that unlikely in this case...um....well...Let me change that to "less likely".  DA2  is clearly going to have a new character, new story, new storytelling method.  And everyone is all up front about it.  Anyone who's going to freak out about the changes probably already has.  ME 2 was ostensibly part two of a trilogy featuring the same character continuing through a multipart story.  Yeah, some of us got a litttle steamed about how that turned out .

But I, of course am the epitome of politeness

Heh. And naivete, perhaps. Even those who have "accepted" the changes probably have wildly varying preconceptions about what they think DA2 is or should be. If any of those aren't met, and DA2 isn't what they think it should have been-- watch out! Fan rage that burns brighter than the heat of a thousand suns!

Which is fine. That's what the forums are here for. We're not talking about whether people can't come to these forums and complain. We're talking about whether or not someone can/should expect to also have developers coming and interacting with them on a personal basis.

[Meltemph]

Constructive criticism presented properly will normally be taken well from most people, however the whole " This sucks/shut-up an take it" approach is neither helpful, intellectually stimulating or an enjoyment to deal with.

If I get aggravated at the massive lack of substance with most of the whines that a lot of the forum goers say, I can only imagine what someone who the whiners are directing it at feel.

Modifié par Meltemph, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:20 .

[Meltemph]

Which is fine.

I kinda disagree, but is your guys forum, so more power to you. But as a regular reader of the forums, it does get very annoying having to skim past all the terrible arguments you have to ignore to get to the good ones... But I guess just removing the posts wouldn't accomplish much either though, huh?

Modifié par Meltemph, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:14 .

[WilliamShatner]

Well Mr. Gaider after ME2 was released I (and many others) wrote many polite, and in-depth posts about my concerns and criticisms about the game - - - but months of talking to a brick wall becomes kind of boring and soul breaking, so I apologize if I don't have the spirit to continue putting vast amounts of efforts into my criticism anymore.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Say what you would about ME2, nothing in DA:O or ME beats Mordin Solus.

[Lord Gremlin]

I just have faith. DA2 is being made by the very same people who created DAO and therefore guaranteed to be awesome. Which I can't tell about ME team, because ME1 was not that good... During 60% of game time gameplay sucked, and I couldn't bring myself to replay it once.



Also, I'm pretty sure Mr. Gaider is the Maker, he denied that twice and double minus yields plus.

[David Gaider]

Meltemph wrote...
But I guess just removing the posts wouldn't accomplish much either though, huh?

More likely counter-productive, as opposed to not accomplishing much.

WilliamShatner wrote...
Well Mr. Gaider after ME2 was
released I (and many others) wrote many polite, and in-depth posts about
my concerns and criticisms about the game - - - but months of talking
to a brick wall becomes kind of boring and soul breaking, so I apologize
if I don't have the spirit to continue putting vast amounts of efforts
into my criticism anymore.

Who were you writing those in-depth posts for? We developers only have time to read a handful of posts on the forums-- and of those we have time to read, we only get a chance to respond to a few. If you wrote it, it may have been read... if not by us than by your fellow posters. If the lack of a personal response from a developer to your posts is something you find boring and soul-breaking, then you probably shouldn't do it.

This is a forum to speak to the rest of the fans of a game and express concerns that the developers might read... and, if you're lucky, actually interact with them from time to time. If you consider that "luck". This is not the "consult with the developers and get a personal response regarding your concerns" forum. Nor is it the "contribute to the design of the game committee" forum. I don't mean to belittle anyone's concerns in anyway, but if you feel thoughtful discussion is wasted unless a developer reads, responds and/or acts on it then your expectations regarding what these forums are for are a bit out of whack.

Modifié par David Gaider, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:23 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Well Mr. Gaider after ME2 was released I (and many others) wrote many polite, and in-depth posts about my concerns and criticisms about the game - - - but months of talking to a brick wall becomes kind of boring and soul breaking, so I apologize if I don't have the spirit to continue putting vast amounts of efforts into my criticism anymore.

Expecting writers to feedback to your critism on message board is silly.
Their answer should be shown in games, which is the only thing counts.

In ME2's case, it is the DLCs.

[Teknor]

WilliamShatner wrote...

So I apologize if I don't have the spirit to continue putting vast amounts of efforts into my criticism anymore.

Good thing nobody cares about your spirit then.

[JediHealerCosmin]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Well Mr. Gaider after ME2 was released I (and many others) wrote many polite, and in-depth posts about my concerns and criticisms about the game - - - but months of talking to a brick wall becomes kind of boring and soul breaking, so I apologize if I don't have the spirit to continue putting vast amounts of efforts into my criticism anymore.

Expecting writers to feedback to your critism on message board is silly.
Their answer should be shown in games, which is the only thing counts.

In ME2's case, it is the DLCs.

True. The ME developers don't come up to the forums and respond much, but they show their attention to us with every new DLC that comes around the corner. They are all like Batman, doing good from the shadows

[WilliamShatner]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Well Mr. Gaider after ME2 was released I (and many others) wrote many polite, and in-depth posts about my concerns and criticisms about the game - - - but months of talking to a brick wall becomes kind of boring and soul breaking, so I apologize if I don't have the spirit to continue putting vast amounts of efforts into my criticism anymore.

Expecting writers to feedback to your critism on message board is silly.
Their answer should be shown in games, which is the only thing counts.

In ME2's case, it is the DLCs.

I don't expect writers to respond to me personally but considering a large portion of the community also feel the same/similarly I would expect a general response.  They did for Mass Effect and are doing so for Dragon Age and DA2.

Before ME2 was released and people were voicing their concerns over the revealed information the writers said trust us and judge us after you've played the game.  Well we played the game 9 months ago now, wrote countless novels worth on these forums about it and there has been not a peep from the writers.  It seems fine and dandy to post when you want to sell the game to people, but once it comes out and fans have been very disappointed by it then it's time to disappear.

[Meltemph]

slimgrin wrote...

Whatever. The writers and devs are doing what they love for a living. Some heat from the forums aren't going to destroy that.

They don't want to post fine, but don't blame the fans when they speculate.

I don't see anyone "blaming fans" when they speculate.  Of course a lot fans speculations are outrageous so obviously they will ignore a large majority of them.

[Meltemph]

Well we played the game 9 months ago now, wrote countless novels worth on these forums about it and there has been not a peep from the writers. It seems fine and dandy to post when you want to sell the game to people, but once it comes out and fans have been very disappointed by it then it's time to disappear.

Well isnt your "group" oh so important, huh? God forbid they don't respond to it. I highly doubt your "disapproval" was the reason they disappeared, but whatever makes you feel important, I guess.

I don't expect writers to respond to me personally but considering a large portion of the community also feel the same/similarly I would expect a general response.  They did for Mass Effect and are doing so for Dragon Age and DA2. 

Considering most people loved ME2?  Ya, I think they did just fine.

Modifié par Meltemph, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:30 .

[Lord Gremlin]

slimgrin wrote...

Whatever. The writers and devs are doing what they love for a living. Some heat from the forums aren't going to destroy that.

They don't want to post fine, but don't blame the fans when they speculate.

Look, Bioware devs are awesome in that regard. Have you visited other game developers forums? They usually have 1 community manager who post there, and devs never actually post something or answer to their fans. There are some that are just as responsive as Bioware, but that's a minority.

[David Gaider]

WilliamShatner wrote...
I don't expect writers to respond to me personally but considering a large portion of the community also feel the same/similarly I would expect a general response.  They did for Mass Effect and are doing so for Dragon Age and DA2.

Before ME2 was released and people were voicing their concerns over the revealed information the writers said trust us and judge us after you've played the game.  Well we played the game 9 months ago now, wrote countless novels worth on these forums about it and there has been not a peep from the writers.  It seems fine and dandy to post when you want to sell the game to people, but once it comes out and fans have been very disappointed by it then it's time to disappear.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh?

So we're expected to show up and engage in a discussion with people who demand either an apology or an accounting and won't accept the reasons we give anyhow? Or be accused of vanishing if we instead read the posts but don't participate and engage the angry fans-- or instead only respond to discussions that are positive or ones we feel we can contribute to?

Yeah. That's the sort of attitude that makes me want to just stop looking at the forums altogether. Which I think I'm going to do now, since it's Sunday and I'm at home and probably have better things to do anyhow.

Have fun!

Modifié par David Gaider, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:35 .

[Altima Darkspells]

David Gaider wrote...



So we're expected to show up and engage in a discussion with people who demand either an apology or an accounting and won't accept the reasons we give anyhow? Or be accused of vanishing if we instead read the posts but don't participate and engage the angry fans-- or instead only respond to discussions that are positive or ones we feel we can contribute to?

Well, if Barrack Obama does it...

I mean, do we really even know that Dragon Age 2 is a game?  How about some proof, David Gaider!  It could all be an intricate plot to sell DAO fans out to that bloated **** known as the MMO genre!

[NKKKK]

You know what what? If you want to cherry pick the the most offensive posts then don't bother. Maybe Drew Karpyshyn has the right idea.

lol pwned.

[Meltemph]

You know what what? If you want to cherry pick the the most offensive posts then don't bother. Maybe Drew Karpyshyn has the right idea.

Or you could do the same seeing as most want to see them around, where as most would be perfectly happy not seeing your cheery disposition.

[WilliamShatner]

David Gaider wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
I don't expect writers to respond to me personally but considering a large portion of the community also feel the same/similarly I would expect a general response.  They did for Mass Effect and are doing so for Dragon Age and DA2.

Before ME2 was released and people were voicing their concerns over the revealed information the writers said trust us and judge us after you've played the game.  Well we played the game 9 months ago now, wrote countless novels worth on these forums about it and there has been not a peep from the writers.  It seems fine and dandy to post when you want to sell the game to people, but once it comes out and fans have been very disappointed by it then it's time to disappear.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh?

So we're expected to show up and engage in a discussion with people who demand either an apology or an accounting and won't accept the reasons we give anyhow? Or be accused of vanishing if we instead read the posts but don't participate and engage the angry fans-- or instead only respond to discussions that are positive or ones we feel we can contribute to?

Yeah. That's the sort of attitude that makes me want to just stop looking at the forums altogether. Which I think I'm going to do now, since it's Sunday and I'm at home and probably have better things to do anyhow.

Have fun!

It's very easy to dismiss people as "angry fans", I suppose it's much easier than say to imagine an actual person who loved your game so much it was one of their favourite things in the entire world, waited for two years to continue their adventures and then was heartbroken by the follow up.  It must be easier to label people like than that to talk to them and understand and realize that even if a million people liked that game, the single person still has as much feeling and opinion as all the others.

Perhaps the "wrong" attitude is not that of the people disappointed with the game but the makers of the game itself?  That's intended to be rhetorical.

People don't have to agree with artist's reasons to appreciate having them.  Explanation leads to understanding. Heck Francis Ford Coppola did a commentary for The Godfather Part III, I certainly don't agree with all his reasons behind the film but I appreciate him for having the balls to stand up and tell them.