172 réponses à ce sujet

[InvaderErl]

Sure, as a matter of racism.



The Quarians who made the Geth are long dead.

[InvaderErl]

Shandepared wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

Fixed that for you.

They're percieved that way because many of them are. As I said Tali doesn't even try to deny it.

How do you know "many" are? Tali says Quarians wouldn't have to steal if they were able to even get jobs, that's true, but she's making a comment in the heat of the moment to someone who is making blatantly racist comments, she doesn't say most or many or give any sort of qualifier.

Not a one of the Quarians we've seen on-screen has been guilty of any sort of thievery, does that mean NO Quarians are guilty of theft? 

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[kraidy1117]

InvaderErl wrote...

Sure, as a matter of racism.

The Quarians who made the Geth are long dead.

If you lost love ones to the Geth, you would blame the race that made the dam things. The Geth are not a natrual race, they where made and when a war happens with the Geth, people have all the right to blame the Quarians because they where the ones who started the mess, it does not matter if the ones who made the Geth died.

[Nageth]

Er, by that logic shouldn't there be no human spectres since we killed turians?

[kraidy1117]

Nageth wrote...

Er, by that logic shouldn't there be no human spectres since we killed turians?

You seem to forget that before you save the council(and that's if you save them) Many Turians and humans don't trust or like each other. The Turian counicler didn't even want Shepard as a spectre. If you saved the council the Turians warm up to you because humans sacerficed alot to save the council and hsowed that humans can be trusted, what have the Quarians done? They want to continue fighting there war, not caring what happens outside there ship, Tali even says that.

[InvaderErl]

Nageth wrote...

Er, by that logic shouldn't there be no human spectres since we killed turians?

Exactly.

Condemning a race of all people for the mistakes of an older generation is silly nonsense that happens all too often in the real world.

If you were to set up this scenario using real world ethnic/racial groups, I'd like to see how many people would still be behind it.

Shandepared wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...


How do you know "many" are? Tali says Quarians wouldn't have to steal if they were able to even get jobs, that's true...

Then you agree with me.

No, I don't. You know what my point is, please don't play word games about it.

I'm sure some Quarians steal and her statement acknowledges it. She does not say ALL Quarians have to steal or even MOST. End of.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:04 .

[Nageth]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nageth wrote...

Er, by that logic shouldn't there be no human spectres since we killed turians?

You seem to forget that before you save the council(and that's if you save them) Many Turians and humans don't trust or like each other. The Turian counicler didn't even want Shepard as a spectre. If you saved the council the Turians warm up to you because humans sacerficed alot to save the council and hsowed that humans can be trusted, what have the Quarians done? They want to continue fighting there war, not caring what happens outside there ship, Tali even says that.

Counter point: Cerberus.

Point is, it is kind of a lousy argument when you consider how humans got theirs. Rules get bent.

Myself, I don't see need for quarian spectres because I kind of like how we don't really see many of them.

[InvaderErl]

I agree with that, and I don't think the Council would consider it anyway.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[kraidy1117]

Nageth wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nageth wrote...

Er, by that logic shouldn't there be no human spectres since we killed turians?

You seem to forget that before you save the council(and that's if you save them) Many Turians and humans don't trust or like each other. The Turian counicler didn't even want Shepard as a spectre. If you saved the council the Turians warm up to you because humans sacerficed alot to save the council and hsowed that humans can be trusted, what have the Quarians done? They want to continue fighting there war, not caring what happens outside there ship, Tali even says that.

Counter point: Cerberus.

Point is, it is kind of a lousy argument when you consider how humans got theirs. Rules get bent.

Myself, I don't see need for quarian spectres because I kind of like how we don't really see many of them.

How is Cerberus a counter point? Anderson helped the Turians deleiver a huge attack on them, many humans don't like Cerberus at all, the point is at least the humans and turians tried to make up for there war, the quarians have not. If they at least tried to help out after the war with Saren sent donations and stuff, then yes people would have no right to hate, they just stay on there fleet and don't give a crap what happens, they only care about fighting the Geth. A war that will make the whole quarian race extinct.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:10 .

[InvaderErl]

The Quarian's hardly have the resources to support themselves, how are they supposed to "make it up"?

And as for "THEY ONLY WANT TO KILL GETH" argument, don't be silly. The whole political situation during Tali's loyalty quest shows that a significant part of the population no longer is interested in defeating the Geth.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[kraidy1117]

InvaderErl wrote...

The Quarian's hardly have the resources to support themselves, how are they supposed to "make it up"?

And...... Who cares? Legion has no credits and he bought a dam video game and gave a crap load of donations to the Alliance. The Quarians could at least help out, they don't and they wonder why people don't like them or trust them.

[Nageth]

What? Most of the humans in ME1 hated turians or at the very least didn't really want to be friends with them. That overt sentiment went away in ME2, admittedly, but ignoring the fact that Cerberus is extremely well funded and still very prohuman/not procitadel is naive. Every race is out for itself in the end (even when they're helping others). Labeling Cerberus as a fringe group and therefore invalid doesn't work.

[InvaderErl]

kraidy1117 wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The Quarian's hardly have the resources to support themselves, how are they supposed to "make it up"?

And......
Who cares? Legion has no credits and he bought a dam video game and
gave a crap load of donations to the Alliance. The Quarians could at
least help out, they don't and they wonder why people don't like them or
trust them.

Your statement makes no sense.

Legion brought a video game is somehow justification for the Quarians donating money they don't have to some kind of nebulous idea of reparations when they are the race hardest hit by the whole Geth incident.


Your whole I HATE QUARIANS/TALI schtick is really showing through here.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:15 .

[Nageth]

InvaderErl wrote...
Legion brought a video game is somehow justification for the Quarians donating money they don't have to some kind of nebulous idea of reparations when they are the race hardest hit by the whole Geth incident.

I think the point is that ultimate responsibility goes back to the quarians since they made the geth who killed the humans. This ignores a few points. One is that it assumes the geth are not a society of their own and are purely a proxy of the quarians. Another point is that we don't know if no quarians are trying to help the humans hurt by the geth (we don't know, we only spy on Tali and she seems to be busy writing letters to parents whose kids died and then buying human erotica or something). Another point is that the quarians perceived that humans/cerberus attacked them. So by the very logic of blame everyone for the mistakes of a few the quarians have every right to be mad at every human.

Modifié par Nageth, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:20 .

[kraidy1117]

InvaderErl wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

The Quarian's hardly have the resources to support themselves, how are they supposed to "make it up"?

And......
Who cares? Legion has no credits and he bought a dam video game and
gave a crap load of donations to the Alliance. The Quarians could at
least help out, they don't and they wonder why people don't like them or
trust them.

Your statement makes no sense.

Legion brought a video game is somehow justification for the Quarians donating money they don't have to some kind of nebulous idea of reparations when they are the race hardest hit by the whole Geth incident.


Your whole I HATE QUARIANS/TALI schtick is really showing through here.

If Legion can spend money to help those who where hurt by the Geth, then the Quarians have no excuse to help those who where hurt from the mistake they made. If they listend to the council and didn't make the Geth, this war would have never happen, so yes people have all the right to not trust or even like the Quarians when they have yet to ever show any guilt for what happen, they only show guilt for there race, nothing else. They only care about getting there homeworld back and ME2 comfirms it.

[InvaderErl]

Nageth wrote...
So by the very logic of blame everyone for the mistakes of a few the quarians have every right to be mad at every human.

Exactly. To use a real world example,

People blaming ALL Muslims for the 9/11 attacks. Is it understandable where that reaction is coming from? Sure.

Is it right? Hell no and I definitely would hope everyone in this thread would see the failure in that kind of thinking.

Shandepared wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...


I'm
sure some Quarians steal and her statement acknowledges it. She does
not say ALL Quarians have to steal or even MOST. End of.

What's
she's doing is trying to justify the reputation, not deny it. Therefore
she is acknowledging that the stereotype is an accurate one.

She doesn't know this Quarian and it would be foolish to disavow any possibility of her being guilty so instead yes she offers a justification, I'm not saying there are NO Quarians who steal - I'm sure some do, and unfortunately its the few that ruin things for the rest, just like how many of our own real world ethnic groups here in this very country are stuck with the stigma of being a race of thieves.

Again, not a one of the Quarians WE see are responsible of any kind of theft.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Nageth]

I think the main problem is we have absolutely zero idea how spectres are even chosen other than during a title sequence that includes three key points of information about the person they're talking about.

Modifié par Nageth, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:26 .

[InvaderErl]

Nageth wrote...

I think the main problem is we have absolutely zero idea how spectres are even chosen other than during a title sequence that includes three key points of information about the person they're talking about.

I imagine since being chosen as a Spectre seems to carry some kind of political prestige for the race (Shepard being seen as brining humanity a step closer to Council-dom)  the likelihood of seeing a Quarian spectre is about nil.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[BTG_01]

I see most people are arguing against the quarians as a people instead of the issue of whether or not they should get a spectre. This is the type of thing that would annoy me if the quarians weren't fictional, I just hope people don't apply the same logic to real life, the flawed notion that individuals are accountable for all actions of their race past or present.

Anyway, getting a spectre is a big deal and I would imagine it requires a lot of negotiating and paperwork. Humans had an embassy on the Citadel and were pushing for years before they got a spectre. Quarians don't have an embassy or any diplomatic channel to the Council of which I'm aware.

Modifié par BTG_01, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[Nageth]

Having an an embassy on the Citadel does seem to be a prerequisite. But who knows. They made Shepard a Spectre just so they could have plausible deniability regarding a certain turian spectre.

[InvaderErl]

True, but humanity had been leveraging political pressure on the Citadel over this for some time (I seriously don't get humanity's "power" in this series but whatever) and it was something they were considering pre-Eden Prime.

Shandepared wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

She
doesn't know this Quarian and it would be foolish to disavow any
possibility of her being guilty so instead yes she offers a
justification...

Thanks. You see? That wasn't so hard.

Its a very small world where you live I take it?

Modifié par InvaderErl, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:32 .