172 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

Shandepared wrote...
I don't need to because Tali did it for me.
Stop being wilfully ignorant.
Look, believe whatever you want. No sweat off my back.

Ah, the siren song of he who has lost. At least do it with grace.

[PsyrenY]

I'm not asking you to "prove" anything. I'm asking you to justify why you think piracy is "likely."

[Arijharn]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I'm not asking you to "prove" anything. I'm asking you to justify why you think piracy is "likely."

Let me take a stab: No species in ME's universe are saints and are constant do gooders. This is why I at least like the universe. There are no Tolkien elves in ME who can only do good and never wrong, each has their foibles.

If humans can be pirates, slavers etc, and if the Turians can as well despite being, at heart, public servants. Then I see no reason to automatically assume that the Quarian's are all decent law abiding people who don't ever steal or do harm.

[PsyrenY]

Of course pirates can be from any race. That's different from having a racial reputation for piracy. So far, only the batarians have that particular "honor."

[PsyrenY]

You know your sad attempts at flaming only prove you don't really have an argument, right?

[Arijharn]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Of course pirates can be from any race. That's different from having a racial reputation for piracy. So far, only the batarians have that particular "honor."

Quarian's have a reputation as being ne'er do wells as well. It's pushed into our face from a couple of sources within the games (don't know about the books, never read them).

Whether they deserve that reputation or not is another matter altogether though.

[PsyrenY]

Arijharn wrote...

Whether they deserve that reputation or not is another matter altogether though.

That's precisely what I'm discussing.
Bioware constantly tells us that Quarians are thieves, Batarians are slavers, Krogan are barbaric, Turians are rigid and inflexible etc.... but with every other race, they've gone to the trouble of showing us that negative side rather than just expecting us to take their word for it. Not so with Quarians - every single one Shepard has found is a poor, down-on-his-luck woobie that the universe is being Very Mean to.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 23 septembre 2010 - 03:09 .

[MadCat221]

Arijharn wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Of course pirates can be from any race. That's different from having a racial reputation for piracy. So far, only the batarians have that particular "honor."

Quarian's have a reputation as being ne'er do wells as well. It's pushed into our face from a couple of sources within the games (don't know about the books, never read them).

Whether they deserve that reputation or not is another matter altogether though.

It looks to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"I won't hire those thieving vagrants."

(Quarian can't get job, income, becomes destitute, turns to crimes of desperation)

"See?  Right there!  Thieving vagrant buckets!"

[InvaderErl]

And its something that happens in the REAL WORLD a LOT.

[Arijharn]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Whether they deserve that reputation or not is another matter altogether though.

That's precisely what I'm discussing.

But arguing that they don't deserve that reputation is as pointless (dare I say it) on whether humanity does or doesn't as well (i.e., in the sense that on the face of it, all species are equal).

I believe it's foolish to believe that they don't do those issues (but I'm not going to judge them if they do) because there are plenty of opportunities for them to get away with it. The Quarian's probably don't go and steal from a ship salesmen but that's more to do with the fact that they might get caught and get into a lot of problems if only because the rest of the galaxy already views them as second class citizens.

[PsyrenY]

Arijharn wrote...

But arguing that they don't deserve that reputation is as pointless (dare I say it) on whether humanity does or doesn't as well (i.e., in the sense that on the face of it, all species are equal).

See my edit.

Also: no, all species are not equal. They're each known for a single or a handful of unique and separate key attribute(s). The trope for this is Planet of Hats.

Volus wear the "sleazy merchant" hat. Krogans and Turians wear the "proud warrior race" hat. Asari and Drell are mystics. Salarians are the scientists. And Quarians are the butt-monkeys of the galaxy.

There are exceptions of course, but they exist primarily to stand out against their race's backgound, rather than show true diversity..

[Arijharn]

Optimystic_X wrote...
Also: no, all species are not equal. They're each known for a single or a handful of unique and separate key attribute(s). The trope for this is Planet of Hats.

Volus wear the "sleazy merchant" hat. Krogans and Turians wear the "proud warrior race" hat. Asari and Drell are mystics. Salarians are the scientists. And Quarians are the butt-monkeys of the galaxy.

There are exceptions of course, but they exist primarily to stand out against their race's backgound, rather than show true diversity..

True, but we as intellectuals and as real people know better. Or at least, that's how I approach it anyway. Quarian's are portrayed as down on their luck, but I also think it's because they've been kicked into the gutter so often that they have to basically live like that in some situations... because they don't have that awesome of a way of life, not even on the Flotilla.

My point being, of course some Quarian's steal, every race does, so why would the Quarian's be any different?

[PsyrenY]

Shandepared wrote...

I think my other posts prove quite convincingly that I do have an argument. Otherwise what would you be here arguing with me over?

That you have yet to justify it, like I said.
Show me a Quarian pirate already, or even a Quarian that talked about stealing ships.

Arijharn wrote...

True, but we as intellectuals and as real people know better. Or at least, that's how I approach it anyway. Quarian's are portrayed as down on their luck, but I also think it's because they've been kicked into the gutter so often that they have to basically live like that in some situations... because they don't have that awesome of a way of life, not even on the Flotilla.

My point being, of course some Quarian's steal, every race does, so why would the Quarian's be any different?

I agree completely; yet somewhere along the line Quarians became known for it. We've never heard "Turians are all liars and thieves" anywhere.

My point is that Bioware did a slipshod job here. If a writer ascribes a trait or quality to someone, it's not enough to have it mentioned - they have to show us. Otherwise it's nothing more than an Informed Attribute. And if there is no way to show the audience due to the stereotype not being true anymore, the Quarians in-game need to say so, rather than acting guilty and defensive when accused.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Optimystic_X every time you link to that site a bunch of quarians die (maybe that will get people to stop doing that).



Isn't it odd how defensive some get over the quarians. Don't see this sort of defense for those "Gawddamn terrorists" batarians.

[Mox Ruuga]

Shandepared wrote...

Edit: I've always thought that the quest with Lia'Vael and the volus would have been more interesting if we found out that she really had taken the credit chit and stashed it somewhere. Then we'd have to choose to either turn in her, vindicating the racist volus, or lie for her to punish him instead.

Edit2: This would be very interesting if Tali was present and she was pressuring you about what you should do.

Agreed and agreed.

The Quarians were a blatant attempt at Woobiefying an entire species. A backfiring attempt, at least to me. The other hub worlds had plucky little Quarians in trouble as well, in need of Shep's charity. Not one of them was actually bad... Compare this to any other species. That psycho little asari Eclipse initiate on Ilium is a good example.

[InvaderErl]

ReconTeam wrote...

Optimystic_X every time you link to that site a bunch of quarians die (maybe that will get people to stop doing that).

Isn't
it odd how defensive some get over the quarians. Don't see this sort of
defense for those "Gawddamn terrorists" batarians.

That's because those Batarian bastards had it coming! >

Modifié par InvaderErl, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:03 .

[Mox Ruuga]

ReconTeam wrote...

Isn't it odd how defensive some get over the quarians. Don't see this sort of defense for those "Gawddamn terrorists" batarians.

Amusing, but I don't think it's odd.

Most of them are Talimancers, in all likelihood.

[Arijharn]

Shandepared wrote...

The thing is, I like quarians and usually it is me who is defending their actions against hostile geth sympathizers who think the quarians are genocidal bigots.

They aren't bigots, they're just inept