Why am I getting flashbacks to end of Episode 3 in regards to "You underestimate my power"?
Borders To Be: Speculation, Theorizing, Roleplaying on Ferelden's present and future boundaries
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Dean_the_Young
, sept. 19 2010 01:25
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#177
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:27
KnightofPhoenix
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Giggles_Manically wrote...
Why am I getting flashbacks to end of Episode 3 in regards to "You underestimate my power"?
Which was pretty fail on his part.
EDIT: actually nevermind, my friends are going late. Again.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:37 .
#178
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:29
Dean_the_Young
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[quote]Costin_Razvan wrote...
[quote] Why would the Qunari pick a fight with Orlais they do not need or want when both sides can simply pass by eachother on their mutual missions, both content that the other is too distracted to want to interfere?
Moreover, the Qunari invasion of the Free Marches is in DA2. It hasn't necessarily happened yet in this immediate post-Blight scenario of yours. [/quote]
Does that mean the Qunari would just allow the Orlesian fleet to pass through their own blockade of the Free Marches? I do not think so. [/quote]Unless the Qunari intend to initiate a war with Orlais as it heads somewhere else? Yes, that's exactly what they will do, unless you rely on the Qunari to be so stupid and paranoid that they don't want Orlais busy elsewhere.
If, of course, there are even Qunari around. Something you haven't even established except by a sequal set many years in the future.
[quote]
The Qunari are also a problem the Chantry would never likely ignore, indeed from what we know of Dragon Age 2 Hawke does work for the Chantry.[/quote]There is a difference between ignoring and managing a problem. Given that DA2 takes place a decade and more after DAO, while this invasion does not, the severity of the Qunari, who have not attacked Orlais and may not even have attacked the Marches yet, as opposed to the danger of your Ferelden, which has made itself a rogue state, are in two different leagues.
[quote]
And you would just allow an armada of ships belonging to a nation which you aren't on the best of terms with to pass through your waters? Uhm...ok.[/quote]When I know they are going elsewhere? China and the US aren't on the best terms, but China even lets carrier forces dock in Chinese ports.
Of course I would escort them while doing so. For my security, and theirs. But I wouldn't start a war when I know I am not the target.
[quote]
I place the Chevaliers on the same level of skill as the Dwarven Warriors...and there are probably more Dwarf Troops then there are Chevaliers. [/quote]Hah, which one of the two societies is facing an inability to fight against the threat of the Darkspawn due to sheer lack of numbers again? The casteless under Bhelen can change the numbers somewhat, but they don't have the war experience.
[quote]The Legion, ( as the Stolen Throne shows us ) are superior to the Chevaliers, and I need not mention the Golems. [/quote]The Legion also doesn't leave the Deep Roads unless it's a Blight. Their leader says it himself: you have to give him a good dwarven reason to leave. And the golems are really going to be needed in the darkroads, to fill the same gaps in the Dwarven lines you are emptying by pulling Dwarven troops out.
You know, you still haven't given any good reason that the Dwarves will consent to this, remember, or how you'll coerce them into giving you what you want, when you want it, when not even their own king can manage it.
[quote]
Even half the army, deployed on all the passes, could very well hold against the Chantry. I have more mages, [/quote]Since when?
The Chantry can get mages from across the Andrastian nations. You, however, can only get the maleficarum, the apostates you bring to yourside (weakening your public position), and however many you can get from the Circle of Magi... which, I might remind you, is garissoned by the Chantry and its templars, who would not let the mages simply leave, and many of the mages within wouldn't even back Loghain, who may have agreed to free them. Why would they back you against the Chantry in a war which, if you lose, supporting you would make things worse for them forevermore?
Let's say you storm the Circle of Magi, and the Templars, oh, only kill half the mages. Half the surviving mages, I should point out, who did not die or succumb from the crisis of the tower. Now you have to remove the mages who do not wish to fight the Chantry (because they are loyalists, because they think it's a bad idea, because they think you will lose). These mages are either openly disloyal or unreliable, and even if they nominally agree they may desert or betray you. At this point, the main fraternity in your favor is the one which recently just tried a coup in the tower while supporting Uldred, and who turned into abominations and were wiped out by you.
[quote]
Wrewolves, Golems and my regular infantry would have better gear then theirs.[/quote]Since when have Ferelden infantry had better gear? You're a poor country who's already fought a civil war and a Blight. Orlais has not suffered, and has always been richer.
Werewolves are interesting, but currently can barely control themselves (and soon don't and flee away, according to the epilogue), and certainly you can't have them AND your presumed Dalish allies, assuming you could even convince the Werewolves that they should wage war against the Chantry in the first place. The Dalish would never trust you enough after you slaughtered an entire clan for no Dalish-accepted good reason.
Golems don't have gear in the first place, and nothing says Branka will only make golems for you and Orzamar anymore than she just did Orzamar.
[quote]
So yes, I firmly believe they would be able to hold passes. ( my plan hinges on them holding those passes ). History has shown that smaller numbers of troops can hold their ground against overwhelming odds in narrow places. The Dwarves are especially skilled at this kind of fighting.[/quote]Passes aren't necessarily narrow places. They can be measured in miles. That's a far, far cry from the deeproads, where the dwarves fight, where the chokepoints are measured in meters.
Moreover, it presumes there are only a few specific numbers of passes at all, and that you can garrison them all, rather than simply be forced to march and countermarch to exhaustion as Orlais marches to the nearest undefended pass. And, of course, that when your hypothetical second force comes to hit them, they can move through the passes as easy as you please.
History is also full of small groups in defensive positions who simply get overrun by superior numbers alone. History works both ways here.
[quote]
And yes, attrition would work for me. It is not matter of simply having supplies, though you are correct in that the Chantry would be have more then I do, but also making sure they reach your troops. My troops would be receiving half their supplies from Orzammar itself, while the rest is from nearby Fereldan. The Blight possibly devastated half the farmland in country, but there are still enough crops to supply a military force.[/quote]Assuming, assuming, that Orzammar does have the food surplus to feed another standing army (and why would they keep the capability, with a declining population?), the Ferelden travel is all overland. Orlais can simply ship supplies
And also I was talking about manpower. If every one Ferlden force kills three Orlesians, you lose.
And regardless, if you steal the food from the peasants to feed your army, you aren't going to have peasants after awhile. You have food riots and angry nobles, at home, not providing you supplies while you lack an army to deal with them.
[quote]
The Chantry on the other hand would have to move it's supplies from Central Orlais, through the Dales and into the Frostback Mountains, all the while being harassed by Dalish Raiders. [/quote]Or it could ship it by coast.
...nah.
[quote]You seem to misunderstand the deal I would make with the Elves. They get the lands around Ostagar in return for aiding me, if we defeat Orlais they gain the Dales. I find it unlikely the Dalish Elves would just join Orlais out the threat they pose....[/quote]You murdered an entire Dalish clan for the werewolves. You promise them land you do not possess for them to attack beside abominations that have hunted them against a force which has already proven itself capable of wiping them, so that maybe you actually give them the land, at which point they will be neighbors with that same group that has good reason to retaliate against them.
Why on Thedas should they be that stupid?
[quote]
And correction. The Chantry has many CITY Elven followers, and my plans do not count on the City Elves, though yes I am prepared for the City Elves to join up with the Chantry...though they don't have the skills the Dalish have.
[/quote]Orlais has its own Dalish clans, which wander across Thedas. Orlais can make the exact same deal you can with their own, or with yours.
[quote] Why would the Qunari pick a fight with Orlais they do not need or want when both sides can simply pass by eachother on their mutual missions, both content that the other is too distracted to want to interfere?
Moreover, the Qunari invasion of the Free Marches is in DA2. It hasn't necessarily happened yet in this immediate post-Blight scenario of yours. [/quote]
Does that mean the Qunari would just allow the Orlesian fleet to pass through their own blockade of the Free Marches? I do not think so. [/quote]Unless the Qunari intend to initiate a war with Orlais as it heads somewhere else? Yes, that's exactly what they will do, unless you rely on the Qunari to be so stupid and paranoid that they don't want Orlais busy elsewhere.
If, of course, there are even Qunari around. Something you haven't even established except by a sequal set many years in the future.
[quote]
The Qunari are also a problem the Chantry would never likely ignore, indeed from what we know of Dragon Age 2 Hawke does work for the Chantry.[/quote]There is a difference between ignoring and managing a problem. Given that DA2 takes place a decade and more after DAO, while this invasion does not, the severity of the Qunari, who have not attacked Orlais and may not even have attacked the Marches yet, as opposed to the danger of your Ferelden, which has made itself a rogue state, are in two different leagues.
[quote]
And you would just allow an armada of ships belonging to a nation which you aren't on the best of terms with to pass through your waters? Uhm...ok.[/quote]When I know they are going elsewhere? China and the US aren't on the best terms, but China even lets carrier forces dock in Chinese ports.
Of course I would escort them while doing so. For my security, and theirs. But I wouldn't start a war when I know I am not the target.
[quote]
I place the Chevaliers on the same level of skill as the Dwarven Warriors...and there are probably more Dwarf Troops then there are Chevaliers. [/quote]Hah, which one of the two societies is facing an inability to fight against the threat of the Darkspawn due to sheer lack of numbers again? The casteless under Bhelen can change the numbers somewhat, but they don't have the war experience.
[quote]The Legion, ( as the Stolen Throne shows us ) are superior to the Chevaliers, and I need not mention the Golems. [/quote]The Legion also doesn't leave the Deep Roads unless it's a Blight. Their leader says it himself: you have to give him a good dwarven reason to leave. And the golems are really going to be needed in the darkroads, to fill the same gaps in the Dwarven lines you are emptying by pulling Dwarven troops out.
You know, you still haven't given any good reason that the Dwarves will consent to this, remember, or how you'll coerce them into giving you what you want, when you want it, when not even their own king can manage it.
[quote]
Even half the army, deployed on all the passes, could very well hold against the Chantry. I have more mages, [/quote]Since when?
The Chantry can get mages from across the Andrastian nations. You, however, can only get the maleficarum, the apostates you bring to yourside (weakening your public position), and however many you can get from the Circle of Magi... which, I might remind you, is garissoned by the Chantry and its templars, who would not let the mages simply leave, and many of the mages within wouldn't even back Loghain, who may have agreed to free them. Why would they back you against the Chantry in a war which, if you lose, supporting you would make things worse for them forevermore?
Let's say you storm the Circle of Magi, and the Templars, oh, only kill half the mages. Half the surviving mages, I should point out, who did not die or succumb from the crisis of the tower. Now you have to remove the mages who do not wish to fight the Chantry (because they are loyalists, because they think it's a bad idea, because they think you will lose). These mages are either openly disloyal or unreliable, and even if they nominally agree they may desert or betray you. At this point, the main fraternity in your favor is the one which recently just tried a coup in the tower while supporting Uldred, and who turned into abominations and were wiped out by you.
[quote]
Wrewolves, Golems and my regular infantry would have better gear then theirs.[/quote]Since when have Ferelden infantry had better gear? You're a poor country who's already fought a civil war and a Blight. Orlais has not suffered, and has always been richer.
Werewolves are interesting, but currently can barely control themselves (and soon don't and flee away, according to the epilogue), and certainly you can't have them AND your presumed Dalish allies, assuming you could even convince the Werewolves that they should wage war against the Chantry in the first place. The Dalish would never trust you enough after you slaughtered an entire clan for no Dalish-accepted good reason.
Golems don't have gear in the first place, and nothing says Branka will only make golems for you and Orzamar anymore than she just did Orzamar.
[quote]
So yes, I firmly believe they would be able to hold passes. ( my plan hinges on them holding those passes ). History has shown that smaller numbers of troops can hold their ground against overwhelming odds in narrow places. The Dwarves are especially skilled at this kind of fighting.[/quote]Passes aren't necessarily narrow places. They can be measured in miles. That's a far, far cry from the deeproads, where the dwarves fight, where the chokepoints are measured in meters.
Moreover, it presumes there are only a few specific numbers of passes at all, and that you can garrison them all, rather than simply be forced to march and countermarch to exhaustion as Orlais marches to the nearest undefended pass. And, of course, that when your hypothetical second force comes to hit them, they can move through the passes as easy as you please.
History is also full of small groups in defensive positions who simply get overrun by superior numbers alone. History works both ways here.
[quote]
And yes, attrition would work for me. It is not matter of simply having supplies, though you are correct in that the Chantry would be have more then I do, but also making sure they reach your troops. My troops would be receiving half their supplies from Orzammar itself, while the rest is from nearby Fereldan. The Blight possibly devastated half the farmland in country, but there are still enough crops to supply a military force.[/quote]Assuming, assuming, that Orzammar does have the food surplus to feed another standing army (and why would they keep the capability, with a declining population?), the Ferelden travel is all overland. Orlais can simply ship supplies
And also I was talking about manpower. If every one Ferlden force kills three Orlesians, you lose.
And regardless, if you steal the food from the peasants to feed your army, you aren't going to have peasants after awhile. You have food riots and angry nobles, at home, not providing you supplies while you lack an army to deal with them.
[quote]
The Chantry on the other hand would have to move it's supplies from Central Orlais, through the Dales and into the Frostback Mountains, all the while being harassed by Dalish Raiders. [/quote]Or it could ship it by coast.
...nah.
[quote]You seem to misunderstand the deal I would make with the Elves. They get the lands around Ostagar in return for aiding me, if we defeat Orlais they gain the Dales. I find it unlikely the Dalish Elves would just join Orlais out the threat they pose....[/quote]You murdered an entire Dalish clan for the werewolves. You promise them land you do not possess for them to attack beside abominations that have hunted them against a force which has already proven itself capable of wiping them, so that maybe you actually give them the land, at which point they will be neighbors with that same group that has good reason to retaliate against them.
Why on Thedas should they be that stupid?
[quote]
And correction. The Chantry has many CITY Elven followers, and my plans do not count on the City Elves, though yes I am prepared for the City Elves to join up with the Chantry...though they don't have the skills the Dalish have.
[/quote]Orlais has its own Dalish clans, which wander across Thedas. Orlais can make the exact same deal you can with their own, or with yours.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:34 .
#179
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:38
Costin_Razvan
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Huh? How did Celene start a civil war?
It was the bannorn and Loghain who did, Celene had nothing to do with it. Unless you want to tell me that the bannorn were being pushed by Celene? Come on.
Her plans with Cailan were a secret, no one knew about them. So you cna't possibly use that as to say she started the civil war.
I was referring to the one that apparently will start in Dragon Age 2.
Ferelden and Orzammar are already allies. Unless you want to block off Lyrium trade, she has nothign to fear from an expanded alliance.
She has nothing to fear from a nation who is resentful of her Empire creating an alliance with Orzammar. Certainly.
When your forces are in Orlais proper, they would be fools not to take the opportunity and move in Ferelden.
The Qunari don't negotiate and if they see a weakened state in front of them, they will strike at them.
Assuming that I would be a fool to leave by coasts undefended them for them to be able to land you mean.
I think you overestimate Ferelden's strength. And again, the maount of allies you can conjur up. There is no way Orzammar and Bhelen are going to fight your war.
I plan on dealing with Bhelen, how exactly is something I would prefer not to reveal. This whole plan is part of my fiction and I spoiled enough as it is.
#180
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:39
KnightofPhoenix
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There is also another problem. Assuming that you can defeat Orlais and force negotiations with a band of very unlikely allies. What will happen if the exalted marches push back the Qunari?
Are they seriously going to let this upstart Ferelden get away with what it did and how it consorted with the Qunari? I don't think so.
What about Ferelden refugees in Kirwall? What would the people of Ferelden think when you are consorting with the ones that are likely going to massacre them all.
Are they seriously going to let this upstart Ferelden get away with what it did and how it consorted with the Qunari? I don't think so.
What about Ferelden refugees in Kirwall? What would the people of Ferelden think when you are consorting with the ones that are likely going to massacre them all.
#181
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:40
Giggles_Manically
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To many iffs with this plan indeed.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
There is also another problem. Assuming that you can defeat Orlais and force negotiations with a band of very unlikely allies. What will happen if the exalted marches push back the Qunari?
Are they seriously going to let this upstart Ferelden get away with what it did and how it consorted with the Qunari? I don't think so.
What about Ferelden refugees in Kirwall? What would the people of Ferelden think when you are consorting with the ones that are likely going to massacre them all.
Much better to try and repair, and focus on defense.
Or Turtle-ing in RTS speak.
#182
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:44
KnightofPhoenix
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Costin_Razvan wrote...
I was referring to the one that apparently will start in Dragon Age 2.
Evidence. Links.
There is nothing that indicates that there will be civil war in Ferelden. And if there was, nothing indicates it's Celene.
If you are talking about what WH said, nothing indicates Orlais had a hand in it. Or if even there will be civil war.
Costin_Razvan wrote...
She has nothing to fear from a nation who is resentful of her Empire creating an alliance with Orzammar. Certainly.
Again, you overestimate how much Fereldens hate Orlais. Relationship has been normalised. Trade with Orlais continues.
So no, she has nothing to fear except if you want start playing with the Lyrium trade which you have no business doing. The only resent I see is yours towards the Chantry.
Assuming that I would be a fool to leave by coasts undefended them for them to be able to land you mean.
So you're going to divide up your forces. Brilliant.
Wasn't taht supposed to be the weakness of Orlais? Dividing up its forces?
Costin_Razvan wrote...
I plan on dealing with Bhelen, how exactly is something I would prefer not to reveal. This whole plan is part of my fiction and I spoiled enough as it is.
Yea sure.
Unless you plan to kill him, I don't see how you can turn him to be an idiot.
#183
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:51
Giggles_Manically
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Costin your plan has one serious flaw here (above the other ones)
If even one of your assumptions/battles/plans go awry you are screwed in every sense of the word.
Fereldan just dosent have the manpower to pull this off.
If even one of your assumptions/battles/plans go awry you are screwed in every sense of the word.
Fereldan just dosent have the manpower to pull this off.
#184
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:52
KnightofPhoenix
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Giggles_Manically wrote...
To many iffs with this plan indeed.
Much better to try and repair, and focus on defense.
Or Turtle-ing in RTS speak.
And economic growth.
And it's nice to see that a Ferelden, Hawke, will presumabely save the Free Marches. Ferleden Pride!!
#185
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:53
Giggles_Manically
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As long as I get a line about missing some real Fereldan food than I will be happy in DA2.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
To many iffs with this plan indeed.
Much better to try and repair, and focus on defense.
Or Turtle-ing in RTS speak.
And economic growth.
And it's nice to see that a Ferelden, Hawke, will presumabely save the Free Marches. Ferleden Pride!!
#186
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 04:53
Costin_Razvan
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Again, you overestimate how much Fereldens hate Orlais. Relationship has been normalised. Trade with Orlais continues.
Leliana's song quote.
Leliana: But Fereldan and Orlais are at peace.
Chantry Mother: It is safer to say they just stopped killing each other.
So you're going to divide up your forces. Brilliant.
Wasn't taht supposed to be the weakness of Orlais? Dividing up its forces?
Leaving some behind to guard the coats while the main army heads into Orlais. That is my plan.
Unless you plan to kill him, I don't see how you can turn him to be an idiot.
Believe what you will on that matter.
#187
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 05:00
KnightofPhoenix
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Costin_Razvan wrote...
Leliana's song quote.
Leliana: But Fereldan and Orlais are at peace.
Chantry Mother: It is safer to say they just stopped killing each other.
Well other than the fact I don't see how a Chantry mother understands politics, we know that Maric and Celene normalised relations. They aren't allies, nor are they enemies. Bryce, a staunch resistance fighter, has no problems goign there for instance. Fereldens still buy Orlesian products, like silk.
Do Fereldens suspect and mistrust Orlais? Definately.
Do they hate them to the point of wanting to invade them? I don't think so.
Whether you want to call it true peace or not is irrelevent. Unless Ferelden thinks it can play with the lyrium trade, Orlais has not much to fear about an alliance with Orzammar. Could it suspect something? Definately. Would it launch an invasion simply because of "zomg, they became allies"? Hardly.
Your mage revolution is more likely to cause war.
Leaving some behind to guard the coats while the main army heads into Orlais. That is my plan.
Some might not be enough.
Qunari could simply shell them, they have cannons. Gunboat diplomacy is the best.
Believe what you will on that matter.
Seeing how Bhelen is one of my favorite NPCs and oen of the smartest, yea sorry I dont' see why he would do such a stupid thing and lose his most important trading partner.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 septembre 2010 - 05:01 .
#188
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 06:06
Costin_Razvan
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It's obviously clear we will not agree on that matter due to our different mindsets.
You might content to let the Chantry enslave the mages once more and not give the Circle Autonomy as promised. I do not. You would also be content to let the Chantry destroy the Dalish at Ostagar if they wanted, again I do not.
You do not see Celene wanting to take over Fereldan, with an invasion if necessary, I do however. I also see Eamon collaborating with her.
You think the Empire will just allow Fereldan and Orzammar to enter a political Alliance without starting a war over that, I do not. You think Bhelen would just allow this alliance to shatter for a trade agreement, which mind you hurts the Chantry far more then it hurts Orzammar to lose.
You believe Fereldans do not hate Orlais and that given the evidence at Ostagar that their hate would not turn to them wanting revenge for the Empress's plot. I do.
You might content to let the Chantry enslave the mages once more and not give the Circle Autonomy as promised. I do not. You would also be content to let the Chantry destroy the Dalish at Ostagar if they wanted, again I do not.
You do not see Celene wanting to take over Fereldan, with an invasion if necessary, I do however. I also see Eamon collaborating with her.
You think the Empire will just allow Fereldan and Orzammar to enter a political Alliance without starting a war over that, I do not. You think Bhelen would just allow this alliance to shatter for a trade agreement, which mind you hurts the Chantry far more then it hurts Orzammar to lose.
You believe Fereldans do not hate Orlais and that given the evidence at Ostagar that their hate would not turn to them wanting revenge for the Empress's plot. I do.
#189
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 06:13
Dean_the_Young
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Half of us aren't going to read it in the first place, and a large part of the other half are going to tear into it if it's stupid regardless. Why wait? If it's good, we'll admit it. If not, you're shooting yourself in the foot by holding so long onto a failed secret.Costin_Razvan wrote...
I plan on dealing with Bhelen, how exactly is something I would prefer not to reveal. This whole plan is part of my fiction and I spoiled enough as it is.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 20 septembre 2010 - 06:15 .
#190
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 06:15
Dean_the_Young
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That stupid conspiracy raises its head again?Costin_Razvan wrote...
You do not see Celene wanting to take over Fereldan, with an invasion if necessary, I do however. I also see Eamon collaborating with her.
#191
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 07:48
Giggles_Manically
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Wow I thought Loghain was the one who saw plots and evil schemes in his porridge.Dean_the_Young wrote...
That stupid conspiracy raises its head again?Costin_Razvan wrote...
You do not see Celene wanting to take over Fereldan, with an invasion if necessary, I do however. I also see Eamon collaborating with her.
Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 20 septembre 2010 - 07:50 .
#192
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 08:41
Costin_Razvan
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You do realize that Loghain was true in what he saw was an Orlesian plot right?
Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:48 .
#193
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 09:20
KnightofPhoenix
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Costin_Razvan wrote...
You might content to let the Chantry enslave the mages once more and not give the Circle Autonomy as promised. I do not. You would also be content to let the Chantry destroy the Dalish at Ostagar if they wanted, again I do not.
I never gave them that promise and even if I did, I don't think the mages and dalish are worth me destroying my country.
Since when did you care about being true to your promises anyways?
Costin_Razvan wrote...
You think the Empire will just allow Fereldan and Orzammar to enter a political Alliance without starting a war over that, I do not. You think Bhelen would just allow this alliance to shatter for a trade agreement, which mind you hurts the Chantry far more then it hurts Orzammar to lose.
Again I ask, if you are not planing to play with the Lyrium trade, why would they? You're only explanation is "because" and "they hate each other".
How is it that an economic and military alliance between Ferelden and Orzammar going to threaten Orlais unless you block off Lyrium? Or do some other thing that is clearly against Orlesian interests?
They may not be happy with it, but to start a war over it?>Not eveyrone starts wars over trivial things.
And your alliance is useless if all you are doing is throwing dwarven lives to the surface. And no, we know that Orzammar's lifeline is trade specifically lyrium. Without it, it's screwed. And I've already explained why Bhelen needs economic progress to bolster his reforms, maintain his alliance with merchants and secure his throne. He is not an idiot to throw all this away.
It's not only Lyrium, it's Orlais as a general lucrative market. Ferelden is poor and cannot substitute for it.
And if indeed Celene is foolish enough to attack Ferelden, then she can be delt with then. But to invade a much more powerful country with a fragile alliance (assuming they even agree to this mess) because there is a possibility of her attacking? Well news flash, you'll have to conquer the whole world just to make sure no one is thinking of attacking you.
And we haven't even delt with how you are going to deal with the Bannorn and convince all the nobility to undertake this crazy crusade.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:26 .
#194
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 09:35
Herr Uhl
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On a sidenote, Costin's plan makes me think of Karl XII, who single-handedly ruined Sweden's dominance over the Baltic.
Attacking Russia, noob mistake. *shakes head sadly*
Edit: Even fits with trying to ally with the Qunari (well, Ottoman are pretty close, even though they had diplomacy it is the closest comparison to the Qunari threat in Thedas for Europe).
Attacking Russia, noob mistake. *shakes head sadly*
Edit: Even fits with trying to ally with the Qunari (well, Ottoman are pretty close, even though they had diplomacy it is the closest comparison to the Qunari threat in Thedas for Europe).
Modifié par Herr Uhl, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:40 .
#195
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 09:40
KnightofPhoenix
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Herr Uhl wrote...
On a sidenote, Costin's plan makes me think of Karl XII, who single-handedly ruined Sweden's dominance over the Baltic.
Attacking Russia, noob mistake. *shakes head sadly*
Many rulers and leaders ruined their nations, despite the raw potential, because of plans like this.
Moderation is a virtue and I contend that most great founders were relatively moderate in their means and goals. And their greatness is often ruined because some wanted more and fast.
#196
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 09:50
Costin_Razvan
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Since when did you care about being true to your promises anyways?
Since when did I not if I might ask?
And if indeed Celene is foolish enough to attack Ferelden, then she can be delt with then. But to invade a much more powerful country with a fragile alliance (assuming they even agree to this mess) because there is a possibility of her attacking? Well news flash, you'll have to conquer the whole world just to make sure no one is thinking of attacking you.
I would only attack if I was certain that Celene was indeed planning to wage war against my Coalition.
#197
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 09:51
Dean_the_Young
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You do realize that nothing but storage proximity connects Emon's letter to Celene's, right?Costin_Razvan wrote...
You do realize that Loghain was true in what he saw was an Orlesian plot right?
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:53 .
#198
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 09:52
KnightofPhoenix
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Costin_Razvan wrote...
Since when did I not if I might ask?
You don't seem the type. Going to war just to honor a promise?
Well that's...nice.
Costin_Razvan wrote...
I would only attack if I was certain that Celene was indeed planning to wage war against my Coalition.
Within your FF, sure, you can come up with the right context. But from what we know now of the universe, nothing is in favor of that. Which doesnt' matter, you are writing an FF.
#200
Posté 20 septembre 2010 - 09:58
Costin_Razvan
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You don't seem the type. Going to war just to honor a promise?
Well that's...nice.
Just because I am ruthless and pragmatic doesn't mean that I do not honor my promises. It's possibly the only form of honor I respect.
Depends on the promise though....but in the case of those two, then yes.
Within your FF, sure, you can come up with the right context. But from what we know now of the universe, nothing is in favor of that. Which doesnt' matter, you are writing an FF.
It would certainly be unbelievable for Celene to want to wage war against a Fereldan/Orzammar Coalition that is set to destroy the Darkspawn....except that no one really wants to believe the Darkspawn are a threat that must be dealt with.
The way I imagine it is that she sees the newly formed Coalition as a direct threat to her Empire, since she does not take the Darkspawn seriously at all.
Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:00 .
