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[Patriciachr34]

It also could be that he had to leave because he was discovered by the Templars. This leaves mama Hawke at the homestead with the kiddies. It also is open ended enough that papa Hawke could return.



Another theory is that papa Hawke, disturbed by the increase in darkspawn on the surface, left to find a refuge for the family and did not return in time to evacuate his family.

[SirOccam]

Ah, that's true. Now that I think about it a little more, though...the only doubt that comes to mind is if Mama Hawke's parents approved of the marriage, they'd have sent a bunch of money with their daughter to help her start her new life. Unless they were robbed at some point, it doesn't look as though that happened. Also, I'm not sure about the "relatives in Ferelden" part.

I think maybe PapaHawke was indeed a mage in Kirkwall, who fell in love with MamaHawke, and she got pregnant. Neither the Circle nor Mama's parents approved, so PapaHawke ran away from the Circle and they both fled the country. Or perhaps her parents were understanding about it, but she ran away without telling them, for their own protection, where they were going. Then as you say, perhaps Templars finally found him and either killed him or were led away by him for the family's (and, in particular, Bethany's) protection.

This would account for PapaHawke's absence and still leave it open for him to show up.
It would also account for their poverty.
It also takes Bethany into consideration.

Yes...I like.

[Risax]

SirOccam wrote...

Ah, that's true. Now that I think about it a little more, though...the only doubt that comes to mind is if Mama Hawke's parents approved of the marriage, they'd have sent a bunch of money with their daughter to help her start her new life. Unless they were robbed at some point, it doesn't look as though that happened. Also, I'm not sure about the "relatives in Ferelden" part.

I think maybe PapaHawke was indeed a mage in Kirkwall, who fell in love with MamaHawke, and she got pregnant. Neither the Circle nor Mama's parents approved, so PapaHawke ran away from the Circle and they both fled the country. Or perhaps her parents were understanding about it, but she ran away without telling them, for their own protection, where they were going. Then as you say, perhaps Templars finally found him and either killed him or were led away by him for the family's (and, in particular, Bethany's) protection.

This would account for PapaHawke's absence and still leave it open for him to show up.
It would also account for their poverty.
It also takes Bethany into consideration.

Yes...I like.

Didn't I have a simmialer theory in the opening post of the thread?

But yes, it does make the most sense. And it also gives Father Hawke the possebility to return later on in the story, or in DA 2 DLC.

[Patriciachr34]

I'm not sure "poverty" is the best word to describe their economic status. I read in one of the other posts that mama Hawke was lamenting the loss of everything her and papa Hawke had built in Lothering. This implies that they had achieved at least moderate success at whatever they were about. Perhaps they were farmers or raised livestock of some sort. I do believe, however, they they lived well above the subsistence level associated with poverty.

[Risax]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

I'm not sure "poverty" is the best word to describe their economic status. I read in one of the other posts that mama Hawke was lamenting the loss of everything her and papa Hawke had built in Lothering. This implies that they had achieved at least moderate success at whatever they were about. Perhaps they were farmers or raised livestock of some sort. I do believe, however, they they lived well above the subsistence level associated with poverty.

Well the burning house you see in the trailer in one of Hawkes flashbacks looks pretty nice. But how they made money, I don't know. Father Hawke is probably hiding his magic power doing a normal job. As for Amell (which is how I will call Mother Hawke from now on), I don't know if she takes care of the kids, or has a job as well.

[Gabey5]

yes we can answer your questions because we have all played the game..

[Risax]

Gabey5 wrote...

yes we can answer your questions because we have all played the game..

This thread is mostly for speculation. And it's also for people who got to play the demo, and maybe got some answers.

[Patriciachr34]

I am assuming that they may have had a farmstead on the outskirts of Lothering. This would allow them to make a living while living in relative obscurity. If papa Hawke was from Kirkwall, then it is very likely that the Lothering chantry was unaware of his magical abilities; and, as he is an accomplished mage, he has been able to hide his magic from the local Templars. Since he did tutor his children, then they would naturally be able to do so as well.



The question is, aside from the phylactery, how do Templars find apostates? Is magic something they are trained to sense in others, or do they wait for the mage to inevitably "show" themselves? Depending on how this is done would determine how much if any contact the Hawke family had with the local populace. This also might give us a better idea of how the Hawkes actually lived.

[Risax]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

I am assuming that they may have had a farmstead on the outskirts of Lothering. This would allow them to make a living while living in relative obscurity. If papa Hawke was from Kirkwall, then it is very likely that the Lothering chantry was unaware of his magical abilities; and, as he is an accomplished mage, he has been able to hide his magic from the local Templars. Since he did tutor his children, then they would naturally be able to do so as well.

The question is, aside from the phylactery, how do Templars find apostates? Is magic something they are trained to sense in others, or do they wait for the mage to inevitably "show" themselves? Depending on how this is done would determine how much if any contact the Hawke family had with the local populace. This also might give us a better idea of how the Hawkes actually lived.

'If papa Hawke was from Kirkwall, then it is very likely that the Lothering chantry was unaware of his magical abilities.'
This is a very good point, and it would also explain how an apostate could live a relativly normal live.

But if Templars can find another way to find apostates, I don't know. A Templar in Lothering seems to notice Morrigan is a mage, but then again she isn't really trying that hard not to get noticed.

[Patriciachr34]

Yeah. Morrigan is just a little obvious. I think she taunted the Templars of Lothering for her own amusement. The Hawkes could, however, blend in quite nicely especially if they pretty much stayed to themselves and had no close neighbors. No one notices one of many peasants trying to scrape a living out of the Maker's earth. That whole Templar thing is still kind of bugging me though.

[thegreateski]

So Hawke's mother has a maiden name of Amell, the same as the Mage origin Warden? And the Amell's are a sort of noble family? That would put the whole Redcliffe/Isolde/Connor/Demon thing in a new light (kind of creepy actually).

Perhaps the Mage! Warden was a nephew/niece of Hawke's mother? Would make for an interesting bit a trivia.

Modifié par thegreateski, 22 septembre 2010 - 09:33 .

[Risax]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Yeah. Morrigan is just a little obvious. I think she taunted the Templars of Lothering for her own amusement. The Hawkes could, however, blend in quite nicely especially if they pretty much stayed to themselves and had no close neighbors. No one notices one of many peasants trying to scrape a living out of the Maker's earth. That whole Templar thing is still kind of bugging me though.

Yes they must have other means of locating mages. There are plenty of apostate who never went to the Circle, and most of them are carefull enough not to be spotted by everyone. So following a rumour can't always be true. Maybe one of their abillities is locating magic in a person? Or maybe that's the power of a Seeker? They are called Seekers after all...

[Daryn Mercio]

I think that Templars, having been addicted to Lyrium since taking their vows, and hence, having some magical ability, which could allow them to detect it in others.

If you remember, Morrigan and Wynne both remark on the Hermit in the Brecilian Forest. And the Bald templar in the Alienage also can notie if you are a templar or not.

So I belive if they lived IN Lothering and not on the outskirts, then they must have seemed very decent folk according to Templars which could steer them away from their suspicions. And plus, if the Hawkes were very friendly toward a templar, the templar may feel as if the mage isn't hiding anything, being so friendly with a mages biggest enemy (besides demons)

[lunarknightmage]

Daryn Mercio wrote...

I think that Templars, having been addicted to Lyrium since taking their vows, and hence, having some magical ability, which could allow them to detect it in others.
If you remember, Morrigan and Wynne both remark on the Hermit in the Brecilian Forest. And the Bald templar in the Alienage also can notie if you are a templar or not.
So I belive if they lived IN Lothering and not on the outskirts, then they must have seemed very decent folk according to Templars which could steer them away from their suspicions. And plus, if the Hawkes were very friendly toward a templar, the templar may feel as if the mage isn't hiding anything, being so friendly with a mages biggest enemy (besides demons)

Hawke:  "Now, Bethany, distract that hunk of a Templar with your ample bosom while I set those bridge bandits on fire."

Bethany:  "But.......But..........I wanted to set those bandits on fire!!  And why do I have to be the younger sister??"

Hawke:  "Well you are!  Now go do your job..........and remember what Dad taught us.........we have to conceal our identities with this jar of Nutella. Make sure to apply it evenly.  Mom says it does wonders for wrinkles, too."

Bethany:  "Sigh..........."

Modifié par lunarknightmage, 22 septembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[Risax]

lunarknightmage wrote...

Daryn Mercio wrote...

I think that Templars, having been addicted to Lyrium since taking their vows, and hence, having some magical ability, which could allow them to detect it in others.
If you remember, Morrigan and Wynne both remark on the Hermit in the Brecilian Forest. And the Bald templar in the Alienage also can notie if you are a templar or not.
So I belive if they lived IN Lothering and not on the outskirts, then they must have seemed very decent folk according to Templars which could steer them away from their suspicions. And plus, if the Hawkes were very friendly toward a templar, the templar may feel as if the mage isn't hiding anything, being so friendly with a mages biggest enemy (besides demons)

Hawke:  "Now, Bethany, distract that hunk of a Templar with your ample bosom while I set those bridge bandits on fire."

Bethany:  "But.......But..........I wanted to set those bandits on fire!!  And why do I have to be the younger sister??"

Hawke:  "Well you are!  Now go do your job..........and..........oh.......wait..........we have to conceal our identities with this jar of Nutella. Make sure to apply it evenly.  I heard it does wonders for wrinkles, too."

Bethany:  "Sigh..........."

Right...
Lets try to get the topic back on Hawkes parents while I'm going to get some sleep.

[thegreateski]

A Nutella reference? I'm impressed.

[Patriciachr34]

Daryn Mercio wrote...

I think that Templars, having been addicted to Lyrium since taking their vows, and hence, having some magical ability, which could allow them to detect it in others.
If you remember, Morrigan and Wynne both remark on the Hermit in the Brecilian Forest. And the Bald templar in the Alienage also can notie if you are a templar or not.
So I belive if they lived IN Lothering and not on the outskirts, then they must have seemed very decent folk according to Templars which could steer them away from their suspicions. And plus, if the Hawkes were very friendly toward a templar, the templar may feel as if the mage isn't hiding anything, being so friendly with a mages biggest enemy (besides demons)

  I wonder if there is some sort of magic that marks the mage as part of a particular circle or something to that affect.  If this is the case, then the Lothering Templars might assume that this mage was given dispensation to live outside the circle of Kirkwall.  They would not necessarily have or need documentation if this were the case.  If not, then I wonder if an apostate mage could get forged dispensation documentation (Hello Varric!).  I would imagine that the more remote (back water) community chantrys would not necessarily do the necessary verifications on the paperwork.  If the family semed harmless enough, then that would also lessen the urgency to verfy dispensation.

[Risax]

So if Hawkes Father truly was from Kirkwall like everyone seems to think (including me). How did he manage to escape? Kirkwall's Circle of Magi is a lot bigger then Fereldens Circle,so probably better guarded as well. And even if he managed to get out of the Circle, how did he leave Kirkwall? The place is practicly run by Templars.

Unless he got help from the Amell family like some people suggested, but then just how powerfull are they?

[Patriciachr34]

We do know that Finn received permission to leave the circle for research. Perhaps papa Hawke received the same permission and just never returned. He would probably have an easier time of it if he were well liked and was well behaved within the circle. It is very easy to exploit loopholes when someone is well trusted. Gads! I've ready about too many accounting fraud cases where the most trusted employee is the one who has been stealing he company blind.

[Risax]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

We do know that Finn received permission to leave the circle for research. Perhaps papa Hawke received the same permission and just never returned. He would probably have an easier time of it if he were well liked and was well behaved within the circle. It is very easy to exploit loopholes when someone is well trusted. Gads! I've ready about too many accounting fraud cases where the most trusted employee is the one who has been stealing he company blind.

I always saw Father Hawke as a bit of an Anders, trying to escape. But yours makes more sense, you don't get out of a city filled with Templars as a mage when they are all expecting you to escape.

[Risax]

thegreateski wrote...

So Hawke's mother has a maiden name of Amell, the same as the Mage origin Warden? And the Amell's are a sort of noble family? That would put the whole Redcliffe/Isolde/Connor/Demon thing in a new light (kind of creepy actually).

Perhaps the Mage! Warden was a nephew/niece of Hawke's mother? Would make for an interesting bit a trivia.

Maybe when you import the Human Mage Wardens desissions in DA 2, your mother will mention that (s)he's related to you?

[Risax]

http://social.biowar...ex/4962962&lf=8

According to this thread Amell is related to the Mage Warden, but it's nothing 'earth shattering'.

So I guess the theorys about the Amells escaping from Kirkwall so their child won't be taken away where, probably, way off...

Modifié par Risax, 05 octobre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Patriciachr34]

Not necessarily true, but not necessarily false either. If a child born of a mage is always taken away (either fathered by or birthed by), then leaving Kirkwall for a foreign land would make sense. In Ferelden, the child's parentage could be kept secret. Since mother Hawke has relatives in Ferelden, even if distant, then this would be the safest place for her to flee to and live. Just because the relationship between the Amell's the lacks relevance to the DA2 story does not mean that it is unimportant.

[DMC12]

Looks like Hawke also has a mage ancestor who helped King Calenhad unite Ferelden, some dude named Parthalan.. and we get his badass sword staff! Maybe this will be explored more.

Modifié par DMC12, 05 octobre 2010 - 09:39 .

[Risax]

DMC12 wrote...

Looks like Hawke also has a mage ancestor who helped King Calenhad unite Ferelden, some dude named Parthalan.. and we get his badass sword staff! Maybe this will be explored more.

Well, they damn well better.
But is Parthalan from Hawke's father or Hawke's mothers side?

Also, according to Mary Kirby diffrent plot points unfold when you play as a mage. But you will also get unique plot points when playing as a rogue or warrior.

But back to Parlthalan. If he helped King Calenhad unite the Free Marches, why did we never heard of him? Simply because BioWare didn't think to include him until now? Or was it because he was a mage, and the Chantry decided to remove him from the legend at some point?

A lot of people seem to think that Hawke will evantually unite the Free Marches. I get the feeling he will be seen as a King Calenhad kind of figure as well...