127 réponses à ce sujet

[MrnDvlDg161]

I saw no damn difference in stabbing that guy or not --- the gunship still came to fight, it still was a pain, and it still shot up Garrus.



It would have been a different story if you were able to keep Garrus in one piece, then that choice would have meant something...but in the end it was just a silly excuse for a renegade action.



imo.

[Xilizhra]

Arijharn wrote...

I shoot Elnora when she pulls a gun on you. I think in that situation when someone is talking to you presumably under the banner of peace and she makes a sudden movement to grab her weapon, it'd be moronic to not retaliate. Besides, you have to kill someone to get her uniform and this was eventually confirmed later on.

You do pull out your own weapon if she draws hers, so it's not like it's an entirely moronic action. There's also the fact that Shepard can take krogan shotgun blasts to the face, and Elnora is outnumbered...

[inversevideo]

Zan Mura wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

I play mostly paragon, and don't buy this arguement. When someone does have a gun pointing at you, and you have already attempted any available diplomatic channels, there is nothing wrong with shooting first. The mechanic was a direct threat to you by way of the gunship. It is not like you stopped to chat with any of his buddies, nor for that matter did you simply run past them instead of shooting the first one in the back on your way in.

You're murdering a mechanic. A mechanic. Not a soldier. Not a warrior. Not a person who is one trigger pull away from killing you and your family, but a mechanic who's just doing his job.

Killing him to prevent the gunship from being at peak performance is essentially exactly the same as killing innocent women and children because they provide your enemy with food, sustenance and new generations of warriors 10 years from now. The only way you can justify that as a paragon option is by not thinking it far enough. And blinding your eyes to the truth has never been a justification.

It is a renegade option, there's no way around that. That's not to say that your character as a whole cannot be paragon despite choosing options such as that, as pointed out before. But that particular choice is definitely renegade. The ultimate paragon will harm no-one unless they absolutely have to, and never kill innocents simply because it's the easiest way to get the job done.

So like said, this is more about people wanting to feel paragon and purely good, while still leaving the backdoor open for badassery. The truth is that the 100% paragon is someone so good, so holy and pure and so naivély diplomatic that they would never, EVER, sacrifice anyone they didn't absolutely have to. That mechanic is by no means someone you absolutely have to kill because you have no choice. You do have a choice, the choice is to leave that civilian rations transport alone, knowingly letting your enemy be better prepared, because you would rather face a stronger enemy, than murder civilians.

Say what now?

Sgt Cathka coordinates the gunship with the infiltration team and plans the attacks.
He said so himself.
He is NOT a non-combatant, but a soldier, albeit one who brags about sending men to the front lines but does not go himself. Again this comes out during your conversation.

Kacking the good Sgt, is a blow to the mercs in that ...
1) The gunship is not fully repaired when it shows up. This is mentioned in conversation between Shepard and Garrus.

2) The Sgt is no longer providing logistical support to the infiltration teams. No longer planning attacks, no longer coordinating between merc units.

You have effectively crippled the enemy by taking a link out of their command structure.

This is in no way the same as killing civilians.

[inversevideo]

Also, if it has not been mentioned, busting a cap in Elnora is a good thing.



You are warned, by Pitne For, how an Eclipse Sister makes her 'bones'.

'Each Eclipse Sister earns her uniform by committing a murder'



Once I see Elnora reach behind her back, for her SMG, she is going to get a serous case of lead poisoning.

[Dave of Canada]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Also with the interogation on Citadel... it's just me or the only way of doing it sucessfully WITHOUT messing up that guy's face is to start with the high renegade optoin "I'm a spectre"?

When the lawyer comes in if you take too long, Shepard says something like "I'M A SPECTRE, I'M ALLOWED TO DO THIS." and then the guy confesses when the lawyer says he's useless.

[Nightwriter]

Arijharn wrote...

I shoot Elnora when she pulls a gun on you. I think in that situation when someone is talking to you presumably under the banner of peace and she makes a sudden movement to grab her weapon, it'd be moronic to not retaliate. Besides, you have to kill someone to get her uniform and this was eventually confirmed later on.

It's moronic not to kill her when you've got Zaeed with you too, he's like, "She's wearing a f***ing uniform, isn't she??"

Yes, my mercenary friend. Yes, indeed she is.

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I shoot Elnora when she pulls a gun on you. I think in that situation when someone is talking to you presumably under the banner of peace and she makes a sudden movement to grab her weapon, it'd be moronic to not retaliate. Besides, you have to kill someone to get her uniform and this was eventually confirmed later on.

It's moronic not to kill her when you've got Zaeed with you too, he's like, "She's wearing a f***ing uniform, isn't she??"

Yes, my mercenary friend. Yes, indeed she is.

Sucks that you can't kill her if you missed the prompt, though.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:58 .

[Xilizhra]

Killing her is perhaps a reasonable action, but I don't really think that she deserves to die.

[stewie1974]

I don't get the "magic misfire" button in mass effect 2...during cutscenes people draw their weapon... they "shoot first"... but somehow the weapon dosn't discharge a round...but rather spits an empty and impotent blast.....

The Krogen Assassins on patriarchs mission fired first, but the shot was impotent..
The Eclipse sister fired first, but again the shot was impotent...

I'm sure there are other examples like this..... how does this always seem to happen to shepard?

Is it kind of like the "Han shot first" debate.... bioware made them shoot but miss so that you could be justified in killing them?

Why not have them "draw" and be beaten to the shoot instead. I could accept shepard being a faster draw... but not to be protected by the god of bad weapon maintanice pretty consistantly.

Modifié par stewie1974, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:04 .

[Arijharn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I shoot Elnora when she pulls a gun on you. I think in that situation when someone is talking to you presumably under the banner of peace and she makes a sudden movement to grab her weapon, it'd be moronic to not retaliate. Besides, you have to kill someone to get her uniform and this was eventually confirmed later on.

You do pull out your own weapon if she draws hers, so it's not like it's an entirely moronic action. There's also the fact that Shepard can take krogan shotgun blasts to the face, and Elnora is outnumbered...

I don't think you're really helping your case here tbh.

[Nightwriter]

It's not so much that she deserves to die (though she really probably does) so much as she needs to die.

And does anyone know if electrocuting Cathka even kills him? A person can survive electrocution, I suppose.

[Xilizhra]

Why does she need to? "Deserve" is subjective, of course.

[Nightwriter]

Because she's going to start a long, lengthy career of killing people, and the only way to stop that from happening is to kill her in that moment, on those terms.

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

And does anyone know if electrocuting Cathka even kills him? A person can survive electrocution, I suppose.

Rewatching the scene, the thing seems to remain planted in his back.

[inversevideo]

Xilizhra wrote...

Killing her is perhaps a reasonable action, but I don't really think that she deserves to die.

I must respectfully disagree.

Elnora murdered the Volus merchant and callously brags about it on her mail to her friends.
Elnora is a cold blooded murderer, who died as violently as she lived.

I think it was good that the careers of all those 'Eclipse Sisters' was cut a bit short.
I'm sure the murder rate went down dramatically afterwards.

Sorry, I'm a reformed Paragon who has seen the error of his ways.  'Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
ME2 has irrevocably changed me into a Renegon.

[Xilizhra]

I don't think her begging for mercy was an act, precisely. She said that she joined in part to shoot up bad guys; the volus who sold her and her compatriots a lethally toxic drug without informing them of its toxicity may well have counted as that. Morally, it's no different from the Renegade choice of forcing the batarian bartender who poisoned you to drink his own medicine, and not a whole lot worse than the Paragon one of goading the nearby turian into shooting him.

[Nightwriter]

inversevideo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Killing her is perhaps a reasonable action, but I don't really think that she deserves to die.

I must respectfully disagree.

Elnora murdered the Volus merchant and callously brags about it on her mail to her friends.
Elnora is a cold blooded murderer, who died as violently as she lived.

I think it was good that the careers of all those 'Eclipse Sisters' was cut a bit short.
I'm sure the murder rate went down dramatically afterwards.

Sorry, I'm a reformed Paragon who has seen the error of his ways.  'Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
ME2 has irrevocably changed me into a Renegon.

No, no. You must go Paragade. Paragade is the true path. Join us. You must join us.

[inversevideo]

Nightwriter wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Killing her is perhaps a reasonable action, but I don't really think that she deserves to die.

I must respectfully disagree.

Elnora murdered the Volus merchant and callously brags about it on her mail to her friends.
Elnora is a cold blooded murderer, who died as violently as she lived.

I think it was good that the careers of all those 'Eclipse Sisters' was cut a bit short.
I'm sure the murder rate went down dramatically afterwards.

Sorry, I'm a reformed Paragon who has seen the error of his ways.  'Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
ME2 has irrevocably changed me into a Renegon.

No, no. You must go Paragade. Paragade is the true path. Join us. You must join us.

I've tried. No really I have!
But my Renegade bar is always at least a quarter and 1/2 higher than my Paragon bar.

At one point, it was the other way around, and I was Paragade, but now, .  'dark side' embracing am I.

[Kusy]

This depends greatly if you belive the Volus word (or the cop, can't remember). He says that to become an Eclipse merch you have to kill someone. Also she pulled a weapon at me... someone in an eclipse uniform pulling a weapon at me is dead.

Killing the guy who was being a badass over the intercom (the one who can end flying down the Dantius Towers) is unreasonable, however we don't know if unjust. Every mercenary in Mass Effect universe seem to be involved in at least partialy illegal activities. Well my aproach to them is quite simple, each of them picked up a weapon, they are working as mercienaries and the work has it's pros and cons... I'm the con.

And about electrocuting Cathka... notice the same item in the Firewalker Pack's last mission... I wonder how big Batharian you could electrocute with that one.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[inversevideo]

Well, I always shove that guy out the window.

I did not bring any 'Duct Tape', and I am not sure Omni Gel will secure him.

I don't want to leave him to give away my position.

And I just would not trust bargaining with him.

And as he starts to say, if I shoot him, his team will be alerted.



So it seems reasonable to see if a man can fly.



Or to paraphrase my lover Liara 'get in, get Thane, get out, and kill anyone who gets in our way'

[vashts1985]

paragon is a lawful character. you dont harm or kill someone just because it serves your purpose.



renegade is a chaotic character. you do what you want to further your goals regardless of the law.



you role play your character how you see fit.

[mopotter]

Mooner911 wrote...

Paragon / Renegade 'choices' are BW constructs meant to force you to follow limited plot paths. They actually contradict the concept of RPG. I've found that if I just ignore the whole P / R cage, and play Shep according to who I want him/her to behave based on the situation, it actually increases my enjoyment of the game. Consequences be damned.

I figured they were partly for the people interested in achievements, which I don't care about.   

  I've used the special choices sometimes, and the interrupts once in a while, but I agree I enjoy it a lot more just playing  according to my idea about Shepard.  Some of the middle choices are my favorite ones.  Tali's trial when I rally the crowed. 

I do shock Cathka, Sometimes I take out the Krogan, it's just so long. and a couple of times I've used the interrupt on Miranda's loyalty mission,  I usually end with more paragon tendencies but I always have a streak of renegade.  

[mopotter]

Markinator_123 wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

There is no such thing as a pure Paragon playthrough. I tried it once, and *still* ended up with some Renegade points.
It is neither paragon nor renegade to sabotage the heavy mech's IFF routines, for instance. But it would be stupid not to.
And apart from that one Paragon-only playthrough, I have never chosen to save the workers at the refinery in Zaeed's loyalty mission over killing off Santiago. The trade off, as I've seen it, is the short term benefit of saving the refinery and the people inside, vs. the long term benefit of making sure Vido dies to force a change in leadership in the Suns, thus crippling the Blue Suns in the long term. Either way, I have no problem keeping Zaeed's loyalty, so that's not a factor.

That is assuming that you won't get someone even worse to replace Vido Santiago. This is where I support the paragon decision.

I always save the workers.  Really has nothing to do with paragon, I just have a really deep objection to people dieing by burning if they aren't attacking me.   Plus I keep telling him, it's his own fault.  If he hadn't started the fire we wouldn't have had to save the people.  I usually just smack him and take him with me.  I actually have grown to like him, after I've talked to him for awhile.

[Arijharn]

inversevideo wrote...

Well, I always shove that guy out the window.
I did not bring any 'Duct Tape', and I am not sure Omni Gel will secure him.
I don't want to leave him to give away my position.
And I just would not trust bargaining with him.
And as he starts to say, if I shoot him, his team will be alerted.

So it seems reasonable to see if a man can fly.

Or to paraphrase my lover Liara 'get in, get Thane, get out, and kill anyone who gets in our way'

That was my reasoning too... well I didn't so much wonder if a man could fly or not but it's like: This guy needs to be removed from our collective gene pool because anyone that frucking stupid when he's up against 3 heavily armoured commando's and he's loosing his position to the man in charge is just a giant tool.

[inversevideo]

vashts1985 wrote...

paragon is a lawful character. you dont harm or kill someone just because it serves your purpose.

renegade is a chaotic character. you do what you want to further your goals regardless of the law.

you role play your character how you see fit.

Respectfully, I do not agree with this.

This would be true, if we were dealing with 'alignments' in a D&D type game.

But I do not believe that being Paragon is 'lawful' and being Renegade is 'chaotic'.

I've found that often the line blurs between which path leads to the greater good.

Is it good to pimp slap the doctor in Overlord for what he did? It is a Paragon interrupt.

Is it good to humiliate Conrad by telling him the truth? It is Paragon interrupt.

Is it good to free the slave on Illium thus stripping her of all legal protections under Illium law and leaving her to the tender mercies of SI to garnish her wages but not be contractually obligated to care for her or have any limits placed on where she is sent? Yet that is a 'paragon' choice.

Tarnishing the memory of Tali's father is a 'paragon' choice, but perhaps not the 'best' choice.

Sometimes you just need to make the 'hard' choice, and do what makes sense for the situation, your mission and the safety of your crew. Being too Renegade or too Paragon, can have bad consequences. Doing what makes sense for the situation just seems like the best course of action. IMHO.