127 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

inversevideo wrote...

Well, I always shove that guy out the window.
I did not bring any 'Duct Tape', and I am not sure Omni Gel will secure him.
I don't want to leave him to give away my position.
And I just would not trust bargaining with him.
And as he starts to say, if I shoot him, his team will be alerted.

So it seems reasonable to see if a man can fly.

Or to paraphrase my lover Liara 'get in, get Thane, get out, and kill anyone who gets in our way'

But the intimidate option is so, so much better.

"What sound will you make when you hit the ground? Do you think you'll hear it before you die?"

I was like, "Ooh, man that's good! Shivers! Shivers here, BioWare!" It's my second favorite intimidate option, actually.

[mopotter]

Nightwriter wrote...

A man almost said "only the weak use guns" to me once. I say almost because I shot him before he could finish the sentence.

Made me smile.  I wonder if I should worry.  

[Xilizhra]

Is it good to humiliate Conrad by telling him the truth? It is Paragon interrupt.



Is it good to free the slave on Illium thus stripping her of all legal protections under Illium law and leaving her to the tender mercies of SI to garnish her wages but not be contractually obligated to care for her or have any limits placed on where she is sent? Yet that is a 'paragon' choice.



Tarnishing the memory of Tali's father is a 'paragon' choice, but perhaps not the 'best' choice.

Wat? Telling Conrad the truth is neutral; the Paragon choice involves telling him the weapons merchant was a deep cover operative from a terrorist cell. As for the quarian, she's probably safe with Synthetic Insights; it's not like she'll have no legal protection, as she's still a citizen, and is unlikely to be sent off to a mine somewhere with her AI skills. And tarnishing the memory of Tali's father is actually a Renegade option; either that, or just a downright stupid one because it ruins Tali's loyalty.

[mopotter]

Arijharn wrote...

I shoot Elnora when she pulls a gun on you. I think in that situation when someone is talking to you presumably under the banner of peace and she makes a sudden movement to grab her weapon, it'd be moronic to not retaliate. Besides, you have to kill someone to get her uniform and this was eventually confirmed later on.

I like this one.  I have at least on Male Shepard who let her leave because she was so sweet and innocent looking.  All of my female Shepard's shoot her, including the first time I played.  I know it's wrong, I just can't stop myself.  

[Arijharn]

An Eclipse merc = sweet and innocent looking? o.0

[inversevideo]

Xilizhra wrote...

Is it good to humiliate Conrad by telling him the truth? It is Paragon interrupt.

Is it good to free the slave on Illium thus stripping her of all legal protections under Illium law and leaving her to the tender mercies of SI to garnish her wages but not be contractually obligated to care for her or have any limits placed on where she is sent? Yet that is a 'paragon' choice.

Tarnishing the memory of Tali's father is a 'paragon' choice, but perhaps not the 'best' choice.

Wat? Telling Conrad the truth is neutral; the Paragon choice involves telling him the weapons merchant was a deep cover operative from a terrorist cell. As for the quarian, she's probably safe with Synthetic Insights; it's not like she'll have no legal protection, as she's still a citizen, and is unlikely to be sent off to a mine somewhere with her AI skills. And tarnishing the memory of Tali's father is actually a Renegade option; either that, or just a downright stupid one because it ruins Tali's loyalty.

Telling Conrad the truth is neutral?  So wait, the 'deep cover operative' is a lie? How can a lie be the Paragon choice?  Telling the truth about Rael Zorah I'm almost certain is the Paragon choice, though yes, I could be wrong. I thought the neutral choice was to whip up the crowd, comprising the Conclave, into rallying behind Tali *shrug*.
You have more faith in SI than I do. It does not seem to be in the Quarian's best interest to remove the protections granted her by Illium law.  Especially as she still would not be free, as she would owe SI hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they would be garnishing her wages. As Shepard pointed out, someone could lose her paperwork when it came time to free her. Under Illium law the burden of proof is on the Slave broker. Remove those protections, and the Quarian would have to rely on the good will of SI.

[inversevideo]

Nightwriter wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Well, I always shove that guy out the window.
I did not bring any 'Duct Tape', and I am not sure Omni Gel will secure him.
I don't want to leave him to give away my position.
And I just would not trust bargaining with him.
And as he starts to say, if I shoot him, his team will be alerted.

So it seems reasonable to see if a man can fly.

Or to paraphrase my lover Liara 'get in, get Thane, get out, and kill anyone who gets in our way'

But the intimidate option is so, so much better.

"What sound will you make when you hit the ground? Do you think you'll hear it before you die?"

I was like, "Ooh, man that's good! Shivers! Shivers here, BioWare!" It's my second favorite intimidate option, actually.

But the 'dark side' is so much fun? Can it be so wrong to enjoy being a BA?
I mean for most of my miserable existence I dwell in a cubicle and only say 'yes'.

Shepard, is free of such restrictions

[Moiaussi]

inversevideo wrote...

Is it good to free the slave on Illium thus stripping her of all legal protections under Illium law and leaving her to the tender mercies of SI to garnish her wages but not be contractually obligated to care for her or have any limits placed on where she is sent? Yet that is a 'paragon' choice.

How is that different from a specific term employment contract? Limits on the types of duties she can be assigned to would be standard contract wording, and SI seems sufficiently concerned about bad press to keep them reasonable. There also seem to be some general limits on the nature of such contracts under Illium law.

[Phategod1]

I dont know if this had been said But I wish there had been Paragon/Renegade dual options say the guy fixing the gunship if you could have tied him up or stunned him., or Knocking out the guy at the window,

[GodWood]

Because tieing him up while he's screaming won't make a scene will it.

[Moiaussi]

Phategod1 wrote...

I dont know if this had been said But I wish there had been Paragon/Renegade dual options say the guy fixing the gunship if you could have tied him up or stunned him.

Because the rest of the merc unit is still there, and if the guy gets out a warning then you would be facing all 3 merc bands in the open rather than in an nice defensible spot.

[abstractwhiz]

There needs to be a third interrupt, where you take the best possible action for the situation. You can call it the Mordin choice, since he actually behaves this way.

[TuringPoint]

I like the "Mordin" interrupt idea.

About the Paragon/Renegade choices we do have:
I think, though I've never tested this, that hitting the doctor at the end of Overlord is a matter of Shepard inhibiting the urge to shoot him. I guess I could be wrong, never tried letting the interrupt pass.

There is often a paragon and a renegade way to make very different choices. It's a matter of how Shepard presents the choice that gives paragon/Renegade points mostly.

Presenting evidence to the admiralty board, I'm pretty sure, was the lower right option. The Paragon charm option was to say they didn't need evidence, they needed to support Tali.

The Deep Cover Operative is the paragon charm option. It is the nice one. The Intimidate one tells Verner he screwed everything up, he's a miserable failure, etc. I've never encountered his Paragon interrupt?

And as far the Quarian slave... the only way I know of to free her keeps her under legal protection. But there's also the Paragon persuasion to get the Quarian sold off.

So really, Paragon/Renegade seem to be presentation, and attitude.

Modifié par Alocormin, 21 septembre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Zan Mura]

Nightwriter wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I shoot Elnora when she pulls a gun on you. I think in that situation when someone is talking to you presumably under the banner of peace and she makes a sudden movement to grab her weapon, it'd be moronic to not retaliate. Besides, you have to kill someone to get her uniform and this was eventually confirmed later on.

It's moronic not to kill her when you've got Zaeed with you too, he's like, "She's wearing a f***ing uniform, isn't she??"

Yes, my mercenary friend. Yes, indeed she is.

Only when you DO have Zaeed with you. Other than that, all you have is Pitne For's word for it. But as I already said once before, I already replied to this. Seems people are lacking in patience to read through my full posts, instead they pick the first two sentences, come up with a thought and abandon the rest in favor of a fast impulsive reply?

So to reiterate, the problem in here is an ambiguous one. I never said it was clearly wrong to shoot her, just that a true paragon would not pull the trigger until absolutely sure. After all she explains herself about how she only pretended to shoot in the seeming confusion and the others believed her. There's nothing to point that Shepard would know with absolute certainty that the mercs make sure the recruit in question delivers the kill themselves.

[GnusmasTHX]

Shepard could have easily disarmed her.



Or taken the shot and let his shields/armor absorb the damage like he's done countless times in the past.



However playing through a second time, I just killed her. No reason to let that ***** go free.

[Zan Mura]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Shepard could have easily disarmed her.

Or taken the shot and let his shields/armor absorb the damage like he's done countless times in the past.

However playing through a second time, I just killed her. No reason to let that ***** go free.

That's just another reason why people should keep much of real life out of this. Not just the part I said before that BW never intended their alignment system to be a philosophically sound, flawless representation of real life. But also this that in many situations there aren't any shades of gray. So when there's no gray, is choosing between the extremes of good and evil any more right? Do you kill because that option is better than letting a murderer go free? Or do you not because had the options allowed for it, you would have knocked them unconscious and tied them up for the authorities instead?

Too many nuances.

[Arijharn]

I shoot her on principle that she just pulled a gun on me honestly, it just makes me feel better afterwards when she proves my suspicions and she happens to be the murderer.

[Moiaussi]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Shepard could have easily disarmed her.

Or taken the shot and let his shields/armor absorb the damage like he's done countless times in the past.

However playing through a second time, I just killed her. No reason to let that ***** go free.

Note that the whole 'taking the shot' thing is never safe in cut scenes. classic example is Saren one-shotting Nihlus.

There is a legitimate question as to why Shepard (or any other law enforcement anyone) doesn't seem to carry any form or restraining device, though.

[mopotter]

Arijharn wrote...

An Eclipse merc = sweet and innocent looking? o.0

 I KNOW!!!    It's just wrong, but something in me says this Shepard is a sucker for a girlish figure and I can't stop myself.  I only do it once,  I'd like to say I did it because I want'ed to see what happens.  Yes, that's why I did it.  

[Markinator_123]

I wish I could have killed archer after freeing David, but the game wouldn't let me. I was so angry.

[mopotter]

Alocormin wrote...

I like the "Mordin" interrupt idea.

About the Paragon/Renegade choices we do have:
I think, though I've never tested this, that hitting the doctor at the end of Overlord is a matter of Shepard inhibiting the urge to shoot him. I guess I could be wrong, never tried letting the interrupt pass.

There is often a paragon and a renegade way to make very different choices. It's a matter of how Shepard presents the choice that gives paragon/Renegade points mostly.

Presenting evidence to the admiralty board, I'm pretty sure, was the lower right option. The Paragon charm option was to say they didn't need evidence, they needed to support Tali.

The Deep Cover Operative is the paragon charm option. It is the nice one. The Intimidate one tells Verner he screwed everything up, he's a miserable failure, etc. I've never encountered his Paragon interrupt?

And as far the Quarian slave... the only way I know of to free her keeps her under legal protection. But there's also the Paragon persuasion to get the Quarian sold off.

So really, Paragon/Renegade seem to be presentation, and attitude.

I took Tali with me once and she seemed to approve of working to sell the "contract/indentured servant/slave" to the corporation.   I like taking her with me when I do things with Quarian's.  She has interesting things to say.

[mopotter]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I wish I could have killed archer after freeing David, but the game wouldn't let me. I was so angry.

 I did enjoy hitting him, but I agree.  I probably would have killed him.  

[Arijharn]

I feel like an absolute **** for putting him back into the machine, but I would prefer not to have the Geth suddenly become my enemy's... and this way I can subvert any success Admiral Xen has as well.

[Markinator_123]

mopotter wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

I wish I could have killed archer after freeing David, but the game wouldn't let me. I was so angry.

 I did enjoy hitting him, but I agree.  I probably would have killed him.  

It is really frustrating for me because my Shepard (paragade) believes in capital punishment and has killed various people in cold blood for their crimes (Fist, Rana, elnora, joram talid,etc) and yet I couldn't kill this douche. I also wished you could have killed Harkin as well.

[inversevideo]

Moiaussi wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Is it good to free the slave on Illium thus stripping her of all legal protections under Illium law and leaving her to the tender mercies of SI to garnish her wages but not be contractually obligated to care for her or have any limits placed on where she is sent? Yet that is a 'paragon' choice.

 

How is that different from a specific term employment contract? Limits on the types of duties she can be assigned to would be standard contract wording, and SI seems sufficiently concerned about bad press to keep them reasonable. There also seem to be some general limits on the nature of such contracts under Illium law.

It's different because she is still an indentured servant.
Bioware is being clever here.
SI is going to 'free' the Quarian, but garnish her wages until her debt is paid, and there would be no protection for the Quarian, under Illium law as the original contract would be null and void. SI is free to impose whatever terms they see fit, or may be cost effective.  And there would be no 'governing body' to play watchdog and oversee the fair treatment of the Quarian.   Now maybe you implicitly trust corporation in the Mass Effect universe but I have seen enough, on Noveria, and in the news with corporations engaging in warfare to take resources, to lead me to believe that corporations are not the friendly places to work that they seem to be. Ask some of the recent employees of Dantius.

Modifié par inversevideo, 21 septembre 2010 - 12:37 .