37 réponses à ce sujet

[Viva la France]

Is she paranoid like Loghain? or does she use people for her will?  Whos to say Leliana was her only apprentice.

anyway
This pic explains everything

[caradoc2000]

I think LS ending conversation explains her motivations fairly well - she betrayed Leliana before Lelianan had a chance to betray her. In the end she is only loyal to herself.

[Sarah1281]

I think it's to her credit that she at least attempted to talk Leliana into forgetting but, in the end, she wasn't willing to take any chances. Leliana wouldn't let it go, Leliana was a loose end.

[Viva la France]

I got the impression she was planning on betraying Lel from the beginning of the DLC, but I'm going to use her story from origins.  Marj had to know Lel would get curious and see what was in that package.  When you confronted her in Denerim, she showed no remorse for betraying Lel.

Modifié par Viva la France, 19 septembre 2010 - 06:09 .

[CalJones]

Who's Cesare?

[Sarah1281]

She didn't really show any remorse in the DLC, either, and it's been at least two years not to mention that she's convinced tha t Leliana is going to betray her first so why would she? I also don't see why she would want to betray Leliana before she became a liability. Doing it 'for the evulz' hardly makes her a great villain and training a devoted bard seems like a very time-consuming project. We don't see any reason for Marjolaine to betray Leliana prior to Leliana seeing the treasonous documents.

[Viva la France]

CalJones wrote...

Who's Cesare?

Main protagonist in assassins creed 2

[CalJones]

Ah.... OK.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think it's to her credit that she at least attempted to talk Leliana into forgetting but, in the end, she wasn't willing to take any chances. Leliana wouldn't let it go, Leliana was a loose end.

I think what's a better credit is that I actually wanted to see if she would side with me against the Blight if I sided with her against Leliana.

See, for various reasons (coughOrlesianAccentcough), at times I can never quite trust Leliana. Unhardened, I can't take her seriously because of her Bard past. Hardened, her embracing of it keeps me wondering whether she's returned to the Game, and if I'm just just another poor fellow (or lass) who thinks that I alone am the one person she's sincere and honest with, even as she talks about everyone else she's duped by telling them just what they want to hear, and how she is just so good at it.

See, I like Leliana, but once I realize she's a Bard, and what that really means, my characters often have a sliver of doubt that Leliana, however sincere she might be about the Blight, is hitting my buttons in just a way to make me like her and help her. Every truth could  be a lie, every denial a mask, every admission a lure to make me trust her.

Marjolaine preys on that. It's meaningless if you trust Leliana absolutely, or if you simply don't care, but if you do... better the devil you know to keep at arm's length than the viper at your chest, right?

Then, of course, I have no doubt that Marjolaine would play the same games with the party: frank enough about her lies and betrayals to seem trustworthy, but an effortless calculating poise to appeal to you, including the most sincere and well planned character change, something you could so easily accredit to yourself and just trust her as she promises to stay long enough to end the Blight...

If Marjolaine could have been another secret companion-by-betrayal, to replace Leliana, I would pick her more than I care to admit.

[Viva la France]

I always wondered that. Trading Leliana for Marjolaine. I have no doubt Marjolaine would be using you.

[CalJones]

I have the same doubts about Leliana. The way she inserts herself into your party is very suspicious to me. And knowing what an Orlesian bard actually is...it makes me doubt her. She's very sweet and appears genuine but after she tells you that her secret is being the girl every mark wants her to be, well... To be honest, I've never not taken her, but I still wonder.

[Avilia]

Cesare Borgia? He'd eat her for breakfast...with chocolate sprinkles ;-)



Marjolaine's problem (apart from the worst fake french accent I've ever heard) is she waits too long and wants to play with her food. She should just kill Leliana. I mean seriously, has the woman never seen a James Bond movie? I'd barely place her in the villian class - she's a wanna be imho.

[Dean_the_Young]

Viva la France wrote...

I always wondered that. Trading Leliana for Marjolaine. I have no doubt Marjolaine would be using you.

Of course. And she would admit to it to. But you know that with her, and can only worry with Leliana.

Plus, perhaps I just have a thing for mature women, but I think she looks better than Leliana.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

CalJones wrote...

I have the same doubts about Leliana. The way she inserts herself into your party is very suspicious to me. And knowing what an Orlesian bard actually is...it makes me doubt her. She's very sweet and appears genuine but after she tells you that her secret is being the girl every mark wants her to be, well... To be honest, I've never not taken her, but I still wonder.

My first playthrough ever was with a Dwarf Noble. After all the shizzle I had gone through. I didn't want to recruit her due to paranoia, but Alistair was like "yo, lets bring her", so I was like whatever she is your problem. Then she gets all nice and sweet to me, and then I find out what she did as a bard. My first thought was like "yup she is gonna stab me in the back sometime down the road". Was a pleasant surprise that she turned out well.

As for Marjoliane. I don't think she is a good let alone the best villain. I think she just took Leliana's naivness and overeagerness and bended that to her will which isn't uncommon that happens today. Leliana to me has secuirtiy issues(self esteem), so that made her easy prey for Marjoliane the fact Leliana was younger and more naive then was just icing on the cake.

[Giggles_Manically]

Even if there was the ability to switch them her peppy lu pwe accent makes me want to murder her alone.

[Merilsell]

Yep. Put Marjolaine, Erlina and Isolde in a sack and beat it with a stick. You always hit the right one...

Modifié par Merilsell, 19 septembre 2010 - 09:41 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Merilsell wrote...

Yep. Put Marjolaine, Erlina and Isolde in a sack and beat it with a stick. You always hit the right one...

WHOO IS DIZ WOMANNN TEAGAN!!! vs HURRARYEEE!!! vs IN TWUTH THIS IST A FAKE ACCeNT un huh huH!
Who is MOST ANNOYING!

[CalJones]

Baroness manages to have a reasonably convincing accent (and is not played by a French actress, either) but those three are just ghastly. I'm sure French players would be cringeing if they weren't playing a localised version. (Funniest thing ever was seeing Loghain's Awakening cameo in French...oh the irony!)

Anyway...yes, I'd recommend putting the terrible trio in a barrel full of caltrops and rolling them down the streets of Redcliffe. Job done.

[Sarah1281]

Who is MOST ANNOYING!

Hm...well, Erlina gains annoyance points for being the only one you can't kill and while Marjolaine's voices bothers me more than the other two, she loses annoyance points because she's an optional character. Isolde may gain points for screwing over Redcliffe but Erlina acts like such a moron that you know it has to be deliberate and so is trying to manipulate you and so gains even more points. Yeah, I'm going to have to go with Erlina.

[RavenousBear]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Yep. Put Marjolaine, Erlina and Isolde in a sack and beat it with a stick. You always hit the right one...

WHOO IS DIZ WOMANNN TEAGAN!!! vs HURRARYEEE!!! vs IN TWUTH THIS IST A FAKE ACCeNT un huh huH!
Who is MOST ANNOYING!

Marjolaine- the constant stuns from captivating song irritate the %&^* out of me!

[Giggles_Manically]

Caak7i wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Yep. Put Marjolaine, Erlina and Isolde in a sack and beat it with a stick. You always hit the right one...

WHOO IS DIZ WOMANNN TEAGAN!!! vs HURRARYEEE!!! vs IN TWUTH THIS IST A FAKE ACCeNT un huh huH!
Who is MOST ANNOYING!

She irritated me less when Shale squashed her.

Marjolaine- the constant stuns from captivating song irritate the %&^* out of me!

[RavenousBear]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Yep. Put Marjolaine, Erlina and Isolde in a sack and beat it with a stick. You always hit the right one...

WHOO IS DIZ WOMANNN TEAGAN!!! vs HURRARYEEE!!! vs IN TWUTH THIS IST A FAKE ACCeNT un huh huH!
Who is MOST ANNOYING!

She irritated me less when Shale squashed her.

Marjolaine- the constant stuns from captivating song irritate the %&^* out of me!

Only if Shale triggered deathblows, that would be funny smashing her into a pancake

Oh well, I just have to settle with decapitations and knocking her around like a raggedy-Ann doll.

[HellWyrm]

Viva la France wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Who's Cesare?

Main protagonist in assassins creed 2

Lol. Dude, portagonist means the hero, Antagonist is villan. The hero inn AC2 was Ezio Auditore.

And Cesare Borgia is in AC: Brotherhood, not AC2. (That was Rodrigo Borgia in AC2)

[Viva la France]

HellWyrm wrote...

Viva la France wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Who's Cesare?

Main protagonist in assassins creed 2

Lol. Dude, portagonist means the hero, Antagonist is villan. The hero inn AC2 was Ezio Auditore.

And Cesare Borgia is in AC: Brotherhood, not AC2. (That was Rodrigo Borgia in AC2)

aww **** me
my English is terrible

[Obadiah]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
...
See, for various reasons (coughOrlesianAccentcough), at times I can never quite trust Leliana. Unhardened, I can't take her seriously because of her Bard past. Hardened, her embracing of it keeps me wondering whether she's returned to the Game, and if I'm just just another poor fellow (or lass) who thinks that I alone am the one person she's sincere and honest with, even as she talks about everyone else she's duped by telling them just what they want to hear, and how she is just so good at it.

See, I like Leliana, but once I realize she's a Bard, and what that really means, my characters often have a sliver of doubt that Leliana, however sincere she might be about the Blight, is hitting my buttons in just a way to make me like her and help her. Every truth could  be a lie, every denial a mask, every admission a lure to make me trust her.
...

Yes, well, that's true, but that could also describe Sten, Morrigan, Zevran, Wynne, the Dog (tell me HE'S not manipulating you with those sad doggy eyes) ... really once you start questioning everyone's truthfulness and agenda, the game just becomes far more "interesting" than intended.

P.S. The Orlesian oil merchant in the Denarim market district certainly gives a interesting perspective on just how screwed up Orlay is from the point of view of the commoner.

Modifié par Obadiah, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .