Anacronian Stryx wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Environmental awareness depends on senses, which aren't needed to be sapient.
Sapience requires thought, not particular senses: the geth in Heretic Station, after all, don't know you're there if you stand five feet from millions of them, unless you trip certain lines. They don't lose sapience without sensors (if they have it at all), but environmental awareness depends on such sensors.
It is necessary, A way to perceive environment, Even in the smallest form is needed for Sapience - The Geth sensors is a way of perceiving the environment - Though the Heretic Geth there weren't present in the platforms before you tripped them off so i guess you could argue that the platforms are un-sapient until the Geth entered them.
The platforms are irrelevant. The geth programs are communing in their systems with many other Geth, and are more sentient there than in numbers than they are in the platforms.
You can lose your senses and still think. You can think without senses. This goes especially true with Geth, who can gain or lose sense with a platform change or battle damage.
Even if I concede everything about what you say about the nature of self-awareness, that does not prove the Geth have it. Asking a soul can be advanced self-calculation, as might be expected from advanced programming. Self-defense is also a natural 'instinct' to program into machines: the Quarians wouldn't want Geth which wouldn't keep themselves functional in the face of attacks, after all. Both actions, which you attribute as proof of sapience, would have valid reason to exist as complimentary non-sapient applications in the original programming that has outgrown its intent.
Actually i called it prof of self-awareness - but anyway if everything is as you say, Asking about the soul is advanced self-calculation(whatever that means) and self defense is a way to keep the self functional - let us assume that you are right does that so also mean that the Geth had advance self-calculations that made them colonize the perseus Vail, start a evolutionary process that would lead them to many forms and programming that made a fraction of them spilt away in a quest to serve what they perceive as a deity?.
You called it many things, none of which change the point that your proof of self-awareness is hardly uncontestable. If an evolutionary process is inherent in the design, it's not proof of sapience.
It is possible, some might say easy, to start a function which expands itself in scope and complication. Since evolution is a model of understanding system survival and change, not a pre-planned action that can only be done by sentient creatures, the evolution of complex systems made to do so is hardly proof one way or another.
What the Geth consider themselves, and what they are, are not necessarily the same thing. A program can conclude it is alive or anything else it might, but self-categorization is not inherently true or accurate, any more than a person with delusions of godhood is, in fact, a god.
If we want to look at crazy AI logic, I suggest the first Matrix, when Agent Smith goes on his soliloquy about how humans aren't mamals, but a virus. His logic by the definitions he provides is sound (he defines what mammals act like, how a virus behaves, and makes comparisons), but it doesn't make his conclusion right.
At the end of the day, that the Geth come to a conclusion is irrelevant to whether they are complicated programs or not. What their conclusion is is irrelevant. What matters is how they come to it, and if it's by a pre-set predictable way when organics actually have free will, they aren't co-equal sapient beings, only convincing immitations.
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convince me that your criteria are correct, or C) point out how the Geth do not meet my criteria.
