211 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

I wonder how long till this thread gets locked.

[trucoolbrees]

sinosleep wrote...

I wonder how long till this thread gets locked.

^ ^ This.    lol

[PsyrenY]

Why would it? We're still talking about the Claymore.

What would be better for it? A damage buff, a higher multiplier vs. various defenses, faster fire rate, faster reload speed, or some combination of the above?

I know that the common solution is "buff its reload speed to be on par with the reload trick" but I just don't think a boomstick that size should be quick to reload. I'd be inclined to go with higher damage and/or higher multipliers personally.

[sinosleep]

That's not what I'm referring to, I'm referring to the whole is the reload trick an exploit or not question that's gotten the last two threads it was brought up in locked. The op has continually referred to it, someone is going to bite sooner or later, and then the thread will get locked.

[Kronner]

Even with the reload trick it takes 1.5s to fire the Claymore. Evi is 1.25s and is one melee away from one shotting regular guys. GPS takes 1s + melee. Unless they go for 1.5 or less seconds for the Claymore to shoot, it is not worth any kind of patching. More damage or better multipliers would be totally useless. It already kills with one shot. I do not care either way about any patch tbh.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:57 .

[TheBestClass]

Why would it get locked? Because we're actually having a nice discussion regarding game balance? Nobody has been rude or off-topic.



I think the easiest fix would be to make the Claymore fire three times before reloading and leaving the ammo capacity where it is. It already does plenty of damage.

[sinosleep]

If it fires 3 times before reloading it's an evi that does more damage.The easiest fix is to simply cut the reload time to what it is with the reload trick.

Modifié par sinosleep, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[termokanden]

Which would be good, because then it's an actual upgrade unlike now where you can have the Eviscerator and GPS from the very beginning of the game.

I'm guessing this is one of those things we can disagree on for many pages but this is my opinion: you should be able to upgrade your gear during the game.

I just think it takes away what from what could have been a cool upgrade for vanguards, the more or less official shotgun class.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:03 .

[sinosleep]

I prefer different, rather than more of the same. A reload trick functional claymore would provide the same damage boost, but be functionally different which enhances gameplay IMO. I LIKE different ammo counts.

[TheBestClass]

sinosleep wrote...

That's not what I'm referring to, I'm referring to the whole is the reload trick an exploit or not question that's gotten the last two threads it was brought up in locked. The op has continually referred to it, someone is going to bite sooner or later, and then the thread will get locked.

Why would anyone take that personally? They really locked two other threads because of that? That's not what we're debating here anyway. It's in the game, whether or not you think it's an exploit doesn't change the fact that it's not something the average player is going to take advantage of because it's not listed in manual. It also doesn't change the claymore's effectiveness on the xbox that much, whether you want to use it or not.

[Kronner]

ME2 upgrade system blows. You do not see what works and what does not. Armor gear working as described is based on nothing but faith. How do I know the recon hood works? I don't. There are no stats for weapons and the only weapon of the big three (Rev, Claymore, Widow) that is clearly the best at their position is the Widow. BioWare dropped the ball with this big time.

[termokanden]

Sure Sinosleep, but you can't possibly argue the claymore is the ultimate shotgun now that a charged GPS shot does a lot more damage, and the Eviscerator is a lot friendlier to use.

The Claymore just looks mighty outdated by now.

That doesn't mean I don't use it on my vanguard though.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Kronner]

GPS is crap up close imho but whatever. It is not just Claymore. Revenant looks pretty bad next to Mattock too, objectively speaking. That said I like Rev/Claymore more than Mattock/GPS but not for their effectiveness. The weapons system overall in ME2 sucks big time..it is based on feel, not stats. There is no "best weapon" in the game. Shame.

Modifié par Kronner, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[termokanden]

Same here. I find them to be very much in the spirit of the class. But yeah between the Evi and GPS, I prefer Evi for CQB. I think the GPS is brilliant for my other classes though.

[termokanden]

That was not at all my point.



I just don't like how the special unlockable shotgun you get very far into the game is worse than something you get at the very beginning of the game.

[sinosleep]

m14567 wrote...

Based on the suggestions in this thread, I hope Bioware leaves the claymore as is. It seems what some people want is the "widow" of shotguns, I thought that was the GPS but apparently people still don't seem satisfied.

Seems to me that people know the GPS has become the widow of shotguns, but want there to be a progression of weapons and as such a weapon you can't unlock until 3/5 of the way of the game should be more powerful than DLC you have unlocked from lvl 1. 

[PsyrenY]

m14567 wrote...

Based on the suggestions in this thread, I hope Bioware leaves the claymore as is. It seems what some people want is the "widow" of shotguns, I thought that was the GPS but apparently people still don't seem satisfied.

What is the point of having the "super-shotgun" (i.e. the one that is available only to the weapon specialist and the shotgun specialist) be on par with and in many cases even weaker than the non-specialized ones?

Kronner wrote...

GPS is crap up close imho but whatever. It is not just Claymore. Revenant looks pretty bad next to Mattock too, objectively speaking. That said I like Rev/Claymore more than Mattock/GPS but not for their effectiveness. The weapons system overall in ME2 sucks big time..it is based on feel, not stats. There is no "best weapon" in the game. Shame.

Not totally accurate. You can still demonstrate via experiment which weapons are better in which situations, as cruz1ale and sinosleep have done. You can also look which gear and talents are used on speedruns and other such challenges; as my links have shown, Scimitar is quite popular there.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:32 .

[OniGanon]

The GPS works fine up close. It's only drawback as far as I can tell (and I use it pretty often) is that the lower number of pellets means I don't often get one shot freeze anymore. The range makes up for that many times over for non-Vanguards though...

[termokanden]

It's hard to say which weapon is best, I still think that's true. It's not so hard to rule out some of the weapons though. Mantis, Geth Pulse Rifle, Avenger come to mind. Vindicator too now with the Mattock I'd say.

The GPS works fine up close. It's only drawback as far as I can tell (and I use it pretty often) is that the lower number of pellets means I don't often get one shot freeze anymore. The range makes up for that many times over for non-Vanguards though...

It works, but the spread is too tight. If your aim is perfect, it's fine, but mine is not, particularly on the xbox.

The part about the number of pellets is actually quite interesting. More pellets = more damage and CC from Ammo Powers, at least if the target has more than one affected defense.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:39 .

[packardbell]

grunt is an absolute beast with it

[sinosleep]

Optimystic_X wrote...

What is the point of having the "super-shotgun" (i.e. the one that is available only to the weapon specialist and the shotgun specialist) be on par with and in many cases even weaker than the non-specialized ones?

Thing is though they should have thought about that before releasing OP dlc weapons. Pre-DLC the claymore had it's niche, even without the reload trick. It was the only one shot one kill shotgun in the game, that was it's niche. Sure, the very act of reloading makes it lose ground in siutations where you are facing multi-defense having foes, but it still had a niche all it's own that was plenty useful in game. DLC has substantially blurred things with the GPS coming in at ridiculous times even uncharged, and the evi coming damn cose to claymore damage with improved utility. Bioware games would have been better off forgoing weapon dlc altgether as they've screwed the pooch on it on both the games that feature it.

I also wanted to touch on something that was mentioned earlier, about there not being much progression with regards to weapons in ME 2. I actually thought that was kind of a good thing. I hate it when you play a game and know without a doubt once you get X weapon everything else is worthless. I LOVED that you could swap the shotguns around and get pretty close times using all them. It alleviated the feeling of, "oh great, now every other thing in this game is pointless" that stuff like say spectre gear and Chasind Great Maul  did in their respective games.

Modifié par sinosleep, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:43 .

[RGFrog]

Agree, in part, sinosleep. But the part I disagree with is that there is weapon unlocking at all.

The weapons exist in the universe. They should all be available from the moment you have an armor locker.

A different mechanic should be applied. Like a max weight shep can carry. Or a max number of points so you can mix and match until you don't have enough whatever to carry x number of weapons.

This would work better as it is believable that shep could earn carry slots as the game progresses.

The infiltrator then could take the widow at the very start. But be hampered by not having enough hard points or weight allowances to take anything else.

Then by half way or 3/4 of the way or after enough strength training or purchasing enough whatever any character could take one of each class of weapon, just one weapon, or any combination in between.

If you wanted to be a heavy adept you could. You could have every class of weapon on your harness but it would slow down your casting as so much kit would get in the way. Balance.

A natural progression as opposed disjointed awards for items that exist in the universe and should be available from day one.

There would be a sweet spot where the specific combination of weapons would benefit the player. Gameplay decisions could then be made opening up a slew of possibilities. If an adept took a Rev, a Widow, and a Claymore, then they'd take a movement or cast cd hit. Or if they only took a pistol or smg they'd get a bonus to movement or casting. Or they could take nothing to get the class biotic god bonus.

A vanguard could take a Rev., a claymore, and pistol. But would lose cd for charge or be able to charge on 20m instead of the 40. Take one of every class and Vanguard would only be able to charge 10m and only 1 time due to cooldowns. Whereas a Vanguard that only took a shotgun would be able to charge 60m and 3 times for every one charge a fully burdened Vanguard takes. No weapon vanguard would then need to rely on Melee, suit up accordingly, but be able to charge to any point in the arena and do it say 5 times in the time it took a fully loaded vanguard.

This is probably off topic and should have it's own thread, though. Hope it was clear enough an idea.

[termokanden]

I had the CGM too Sinosleep, I know how that feels (also, stabbing a dragon in the head with a maul just looks weird). However, that's not exactly what I'm asking for. As it is now, you have the Evi and GPS. No point in finding new weapons then. So it's even worse than the situation in DAO. Here you find a new weapon and the game automatically switches to it and you think "oh no, not THIS weapon, it's so bad".

Part of the fun of RPGs is (IMO) to gear up your characters. It's not fun unless there's a progression. It's also suboptimal if the progression stops halfway through the game as is the case with DAO and certain weapons (The Rose's Thorn + The Edge, Chasind Great Maul, and so on).

Modifié par termokanden, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .