211 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Omicrone wrote...

Console players can perform the reload trick just fine. It's the actual shooter gameplay you guys seem to have problems with. Charging into hordes of baddies and coming out victorious is almost only PC-exclusive because of the faster turning, faster aiming, no-pause gameplay that the PC allows. It's just different for consoles and that's that. If you want to master reload trick on console, practice charging and pausing the game to determine your next target better. You'll get used to it.

Oh it's that myth again.

It's easier to aim with a mouse and keyboard, but it's hardly impossible on a console.

[krimesh]

Christina Norman wrote...
The reload trick is by design. It isn't a glitch. I know because I put it in on purpose!

Hah! Next time anyone wants to bicker about BioWare not knowing what they are doing, remember this!

[OniGanon]

What, like it's the only thing that isn't explained in the game?

Almost everything in this game goes unexplained. You either find it through trial and error or consult the wiki/forums.


Also I don't know what no-pause gaming has to do with being able to pull off crazy stuff in combat. Pause effectively gives you impossible reaction speed, which makes doing the improbable much easier.

Modifié par OniGanon, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:03 .

[godlike13]

Omicrone wrote...

Console players can perform the reload trick just fine. It's the actual shooter gameplay you guys seem to have problems with. Charging into hordes of baddies and coming out victorious is almost only PC-exclusive because of the faster turning, faster aiming, no-pause gameplay that the PC allows. It's just different for consoles and that's that. If you want to master reload trick on console, practice charging and pausing the game to determine your next target better. You'll get used to it.

Ya, no. Just no. Console players can perform the reload trick, but at the cost of quick and accurate aiming. So it makes it pretty ineffective for us. It's not the actual shooter gameplay consoles have problems a with, not at all. Its begin able to aim and hit the melee button at the same time consoles have problems with. Charging into hordes of baddies and coming out victorious is far from a "PC-exclusive" because of all that bla bla bla. Consoles can, and do, do that just fine regardless if they can take advantage of the reload trick or not. Just not as effectively with the Claymore as the PCs can because of a trick they can take advantage of due to where there melee button is located.

Modifié par godlike13, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[snfonseka]

TheodoricFriede wrote...

Omicrone wrote...

Console players can perform the reload trick just fine. It's the actual shooter gameplay you guys seem to have problems with. Charging into hordes of baddies and coming out victorious is almost only PC-exclusive because of the faster turning, faster aiming, no-pause gameplay that the PC allows. It's just different for consoles and that's that. If you want to master reload trick on console, practice charging and pausing the game to determine your next target better. You'll get used to it.

And thanks to Christina for clearing it up! Now all the haters calling it a glitch can shut the hell up.

That doesnt change the fact that the Claymore is ONLY useful with the reload trick. I understand that PC gamers have it easy, but the way the trick works seems to be spasifically for the PC gamers. Anyone playing a vanguard on a console basicly has a crappy weapon.
Not to mention that the reload trick isnt explained in the game. It has to be found.
You have to understand the comparisons here,
The Widow is liquid death.
The Revenent is a meat grinder.
The Claymore is...a slow shotgun that only works if you know the trick.

If BW really insert that "relord trick" into the game on purpose, then that's one of the dumbest things I ever heard regaring game developing. Because of that I believe that the developer who mention this few posts ago, just did a sacastic joke about one of the gliches that is available in ME2.

Modifié par snfonseka, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:18 .

[SentinelBorg]

With the GPS you don't need the Claymore anymore and with the Mattock you really want to get the Assault Rifle skill as a Vanguard.

Modifié par SentinelBorg, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:20 .

[godlike13]

TheodoricFriede wrote...

That doesnt change the fact that the Claymore is ONLY useful with the reload trick. I understand that PC gamers have it easy, but the way the trick works seems to be spasifically for the PC gamers. Anyone playing a vanguard on a console basicly has a crappy weapon.
Not to mention that the reload trick isnt explained in the game. It has to be found.
You have to understand the comparisons here,
The Widow is liquid death.
The Revenent is a meat grinder.
The Claymore is...a slow shotgun that only works if you know the trick.

To be fair the Claymore isn't only useful with the reload trick. The Claymore was and i guess still is plenty useful. It still packs quite a wallop. Just its no longer unique, or special.

The Widow is liquid death.
The Revenent is a meat grinder.
The Claymore was the one shot, one kill shotgun.

That was it's "thing", and still is, but now that DLC added shotguns that are also one shot, one kill too, just way more forgiving and easier to use. In comparison the Claymore become a lot less special and losses its worth.

Modifié par godlike13, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:30 .

[TheodoricFriede]

OniGanon wrote...

What, like it's the only thing that isn't explained in the game?

Almost everything in this game goes unexplained. You either find it through trial and error or consult the wiki/forums.

I dont know what the devil game your playing but everything in ME2 is pretty well explained to me.
Except, of course, that the only way to use the claymore is to take my thumb off the right thumb stick, forgoing any hope of aiming, and press the melee button at juuust the right time if I want any hope of using the weapon effectivly.

[sinosleep]

She pointed it out MONTHS ago, people have chosen to ignore that fact.

http://social.biowar...index/1006000/8

One advanced tip I can give for vanguard players is, you can cancel out of a reload animation to melee an enemy and you will still reload as long as you've completed 60% of the reload animation. It's tricky to master, definitely for more twitchy players, but it really helps with the claymore.

You can do it with any class and any weapon. In addition to melee, any power works to cancel out of a reload. For example, on my adept I oftenuse pull or warp to cancel out of a reload.

It's no different than what fighting games have been doing for over a decade. Allowing players to cut off animations using certain moves, none of which have ever been in any official documentation, all the while adding and removing specific cut offs from certain characters proving that not only are they aware of their existance but that they actively put themin the game.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[sinosleep]

SentinelBorg wrote...

With the GPS you don't need the
Claymore anymore and with the Mattock you really want to get the Assault
Rifle skill as a Vanguard.

Not really. The mattock is only really out of this world good on the soldier. On the other classes it has a hard time keeping up with the carnifex and gets crushed by the vi[er against armor. The fact that adrenaline rush lets you fire the weapon at it's actual firing rate is what makes it obscenely powerful on that class.

TheodoricFriede wrote...

I dont know what the devil game your playing but everything in ME2 is pretty well explained to me.
Except, of course, that the only way to use the claymore is to take my thumb off the right thumb stick, forgoing any hope of aiming, and press the melee button at juuust the right time if I want any hope of using the weapon effectivly.

Which is why this thread is around? Why people thought shotguns were garbage because instead of actually playing the game and SEEING the damage they just loked at the coalesed.ini and didn't realize that the damage was actually X8 intead of X4 because there are 4 unrendered pellets on shotgun blasts? You mean how nobody was made aware of the fact that charge doesn't benefit from the full power of biotic cool down research due to balance reasons? There is a METRIC TON of undocumented things in this game.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:00 .

[OniGanon]

TheodoricFriede wrote...
I dont know what the devil game your playing but everything in ME2 is pretty well explained to me.

Really? So the game explained to you about ragdoll/freeze/biotic effect damage bonus? It gave you the weapon statistics? It told you about range modifiers and the distances they apply to? It told you that the Shuriken can be fired full auto by rapid tapping? It told you that you can charge the GPS, activate Tactical Cloak, and fire it without breaking Cloak? It told you that Flashbang neuters Harbinger? If told you Stasis puts the enemy in ragdoll state after it ends (never mind the hax fall of death damage)? It told you a shotgun loaded with Cryo Ammo can freeze a defended enemy in one shot? It told you Warp Ammo is not a Biotic power? It told you Incendiary Grenade doens't benefit from any research? It told you that you cannot Neural Shock an enemy that is in the process of being Frozen? It told you Varren are immune to panic and stagger effects?

I don't know what the devil game you're playing, but...

sinosleep wrote...
On the other classes it has a hard time
keeping up with the carnifex and gets crushed by the viper against
armor. The fact that adrenaline rush lets you fire the weapon at it's
actual firing rate is what makes it obscenely powerful on that class.

The Vanguard could also get good use out of it with Heavy Charge's slowdown.

Modifié par OniGanon, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[TheodoricFriede]

Sinosleep,
I get it, the trick is intentional, i'm not arguing that.
Im arguing that there shouldn't have to be a trick to make the "super weapons" effective.
The Widow doesn't need a trick to be effective, neither does the Revenent. The Claymore is the only weapon in the game that basically requires you to use the trick.
The trick, which we have already know is bloody hard to do on a console and easy to do on a PC, should not be necessary.
If the intent of the trick is to make the Claymore reload as faster, why not just make the gun reload faster.

Oh and to reply to Oniganon,
...Yes...nearly everything you said is either in the loading screens, in the weapon/power descriptions, or just bloody obvious.
So im playing mass effect 2, i still dont know your game.

Modifié par TheodoricFriede, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[sinosleep]

Except that the weapon has only be rendered ineffective due to DLC. It wasn't an inherent design flaw, Bioware simply decided to put out weapons that not only filled the one shot one kill niche, but were better at other things as well. As has been pointed out, before DLC weapons the claymore had it's a niche. Neither the scimitar nor the katana could one shot anything at all. The claymore could, that was it's power, and best of all no reload trick is needed in order to perform one shot kills. Hell check out the vanguard sticky, plenty of us preferred the weapon before any such trick was revealed.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[OniGanon]

You need to make use of an undocumented trick to make the most of the Shuriken. The trick is just considerably easier to discover and perform...

[godlike13]

OniGanon wrote...

You need to make use of an undocumented trick to make the most of the Shuriken. The trick is just considerably easier to discover and perform...

To be fair tapping the trigger to shoot faster isn't a "undocumented trick", that's just common sense  <_<

[OniGanon]

So you rapidly tap your Tempest too?

I'm pretty sure close to nothing of what I mentioned is told to you in game. Please, show me the loading screen that tells you the short range damage modifier applies 25% bonus damage when you're within 8m of your enemy.

Becuase I sure as hell didn't know that until I read it in the wikia.

Modifié par OniGanon, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[TheodoricFriede]

Ok...ok...ok...

You know what, you win. The Claymore is a great weapon. Enjoy it.

I'm tired of people arguing with people completely ignoring the important parts of my argument (the claymore shouldn't need a trick in the first place) and focusing things that I'm not even debating (dlc weapons removing the Claymores niche.)

Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to bash my head against a wall over and over again, because the wall would understand me better then you all would.

[sinosleep]

I'm going to quote myself, because that reply makes no sense whatsoever

Except that the weapon has only be rendered ineffective due to DLC. It wasn't an inherent design flaw, Bioware simply decided to put out weapons that not only filled the one shot one kill niche, but were better at other things as well. As has been pointed out, before DLC weapons the claymore had it's a niche. Neither the scimitar nor the katana could one shot anything at all. The claymore could, that was it's power, and best of all no reload trick is needed in order to perform one shot kills. Hell check out the vanguard sticky, plenty of us preferred the weapon before any such trick was revealed.

I mentioned not needing the reload trick to do what the claymore does best, which is one shot kills. Without the GPS and Evicirator to compare it to what is so damned awful about the claymore? That is why I brought up niches and DLC, because it's entirely relevant to the arguement.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:16 .

[godlike13]

OniGanon wrote...

So you rapidly tap your Tempest too?

No, given its fully automatic, but i rapidly tap my Viper, Vindicator, Predator, and Carnifex. Why? Because tapping obviously makes them just shoot faster. Don't see how stating the obvious is a "trick" now [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Modifié par godlike13, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:16 .

[TheodoricFriede]

sinosleep wrote...


I mentioned not needing the reload trick to do what the claymore does best, which is one shot kills. Without the GPS and Evicirator to compare it to what is so damned awful about the claymore? That is why I brought up niches and DLC, because it's entirely relevant to the arguement.

What is awful is that its not on par with the other 2 "super weapons."
 How many people hate the Widow? Not many, because its a great and powerful weapon that works well with its class.
How many hate the Revenent? Not many, because its a great and powerful weapon that works well with its class.
How many people hate the Claymore? A crap load more then hate the other two weapons, because its too slow to be used as effectivly as the other two weapons. Unless you use the trick, which is apperently intentional...so if the intent was to reduce the reload speed by 40%, why didnt they just make the gun reload faster.

Look i'm drained, you want to keep arguing go ahead but do it without me because we are never going to convince each other of our opinions.

[krimesh]

godlike13 wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

So you rapidly tap your Tempest too?

No, given its fully automatic, but i rapidly tap my Viper, Vindicator, Predator, and Carnifex. Why? Because tapping obviously makes them just shoot faster. Don't see how stating the obvious is a "trick" now 

It's actually completely anti-intuitive *not* to tap a burst weapon.

Modifié par krimesh, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:39 .

[OniGanon]

TheodoricFriede wrote...
 How many people hate the Widow? Not many, because its a great and powerful weapon that works well with its class.
How many hate the Revenent? Not many, because its a great and powerful weapon that works well with its class.

Actually, even before the DLC, the Widow and Revenant were very close in effectiveness with the Viper and Vindicator respectively, such that in terms of pure gameplay effectiveness, it was very debatable whether they were worth their opportunity cost.

And in fact debating over it is exactly what people did, for months, until we all got sick of it and started churning out the 'go with whatever you like the feel of' answer.

[krimesh]

^^

Each weapon fits a style. With the right style a weapon can become very powerful. But this also works the other way around. That's what I love so much about ME2 gameplay.

[sinosleep]

OniGanon wrote..

Actually, even before the DLC, the Widow and Revenant were very close in effectiveness with the Viper and Vindicator respectively, such that in terms of pure gameplay effectiveness, it was very debatable whether they were worth their opportunity cost.

And in fact debating over it is exactly what people did, for months, until we all got sick of it and started churning out the 'go with whatever you like the feel of' answer.

Exactly, I guess this is video evidence that the widow sucks.



Since it's primary advantage is being a one shot one kill weapon and otherwise it's practically no better than the viper.

Viper, body: 11.2 sec,
Viper, head: 6.5 sec,

Widow, body: 11.0 sec,
Widow, head: 6.0 sec,

[edit here] No reload trick claymore comes in at comparable times to the other stock shotguns against standard enemies while doing something they don't, one shotting them. The claymore only needs the reload trick to be "effective" when comparing it to the evicirator or GPS. That implies it's not an inherent design flaw, but rather that DLC weapons are simply over the top.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:04 .

[Nooneyouknow13]

I'm looking forward to playing around with the Claymore on my next play through, especially because of the reload trick. I do have a complaint about the range of shotguns in general though, the short ranged shotgun trope needs to die. Mass Effect 1 had beautiful shotguns, why ruin it? There's nothing wrong with them being excellent at short range, but being complete crap at anything out of spitting distance is getting old. The optimal range for buckshot and birdshot is between 20 to 40 meters, and slugs are effective at up to 100 meters. All of the shotguns in ME2 fire like a completely barrel-less sawed off shotgun would. It feels like everything in ME2 is loaded with ratshot(3 to 5 meter effective range). I'd really like to see the option of using shotgun with ammunition styled after Dragon's Breath shells in ME3 as well.

Ok, so the rant went a bit off topic there, but I can honestly say, as a major fan of the fighting game genre, I've found it quite fun to use skills and melee attacks to speed up reload time on my weapons with both the Infiltrator and the Adept so far, so I'm very muhc looking forward to doing it with the Claymore on a Vangaurd next.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:41 .