211 réponses à ce sujet

[Hootie719]

Christina Norman wrote...

The reload trick is an example of canceling animations. This is a pretty common technique though it is primarily used in fighting games:


If you don't like the reload trick, by all means don't use it! It is supposed to reward coordination and timing.

The problem though, and the reason people don't like the reload trick, is that a player shouldn't have to rely on manipulating the system to improve gameplay. The gameplay should stand on its own merits.

In the case of the claymore, its slow reload time makes it worthless, or at least not as efficient as other shotguns in the game without the reload trick, but should it not be the optimal weapon of choice? A special reward for soldiers and vanguards having reached that point in the game? Instead it sits on the shelf while I use a weapon I'm not happy with and wonder what might have been.

[sinosleep]

Except that that's not true. Any issues that come about due to not using the reload trick only make themselves noticeable when fighting mutli-defense high health enemies. When fighting your standard mobs the claymore is no less useful than a scimitar or katana. The only weapon that really makes the claymore look bad is the GPS, which is dlc and simply over the top. Just like the mattock in the hands in a soldier makes the revenant look worse than it is.

[TheBestClass]

You can't hide a now touted gameplay feature in what the game advertises as a superior shotgun. The Rev and Widow don't need this feature and neither should the Claymore. I don't care if people use the reload trick or not but it shouldn't make or break a weapon. Preference for a weapon should not be based around some goofy mechanic most players aren't even aware of. It's also strange to argue that the weapon is good because of the reload trick. The weapon is still pretty mediocre, you're just defending the use of the reload trick, which would have never been needed if the shotgun could stand on it's own merits.

[sinosleep]

Which is why I posted a video of a claymore clearing content at the same rate as the scimitar and katana in around the same time without using the reload trick? Which is why I also have videos of a reload trick claymore beating out every other shotgun except the gps?

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:02 .

[Nooneyouknow13]

OniGanon wrote...

I've looked up the 360 controller scheme and concluded that you all need to learn how to hold your controller properly. Use your right thumb on the thumbstick, middle finger in the space between the RT and RB, and your index finger is curled so that it lays diagonally between the coloured face buttons. From this position, every button is accessible at all times. It takes a little getting used to, but if you're going to play a shooting game on a console, this is the only way to do it.

This is eerily similar to how I used to hold the SNES controller while playing the older Mega Man X games. Those required you to be constantly pressing 3 out of the 4 face buttons to be able to charge, jump and dash properly.

[Nooneyouknow13]

TheBestclass wrote...

You can't hide a now touted gameplay feature in what the game advertises as a superior shotgun. The Rev and Widow don't need this feature and neither should the Claymore. I don't care if people use the reload trick or not but it shouldn't make or break a weapon. Preference for a weapon should not be based around some goofy mechanic most players aren't even aware of. It's also strange to argue that the weapon is good because of the reload trick. The weapon is still pretty mediocre, you're just defending the use of the reload trick, which would have never been needed if the shotgun could stand on it's own merits.

I found out that you could cancel the reload animation before I ever hit the forums while playing ME2. I had 1 point in incinerate after a while just to use it to cut my Widow relaod times down on my infiltrator. It was agonizingly slow to reload before that.

[Nooneyouknow13]

sinosleep wrote...

Which is why I posted a video of a claymore clearing content at the same rate as the scimitar and katana in around the same time without using the reload trick? Which is why I also have videos of a reload trick claymore beating out every other shotgun except the gps?

And for the triple post:

WOULD BE LISTEN TO THIS MAN?! He's quite right, and really shouldn't have to be repating himself so often.

[TheBestClass]

sinosleep wrote...

Which is why I posted a video of a claymore clearing content at the same rate as the scimitar and katana in around the same time without using the reload trick? Which is why I also have videos of a reload trick claymore beating out every other shotgun except the gps?

Clearing enemies at the same rate as the Scimitar and Katana isn't something to brag about. You argue that the Claymore only requires the reload trick against enemies with multiple defenses and then post vids of it clearing normal enemies at the same rate as the other shotguns without the reload trick. Great, so it's just as good as the other shotguns for killing normal enemies and worse at killing tougher ones. So, why would anyone ever use it?

[sinosleep]

I also posted vids of the viper clearing content just as quickly as the widow. Is the widow garbage now because it doesn't blow away the viper? I've posted vids that show the mattock is FAR AND AWAY the highest dps weapon on a soldier (it's not even close) does that automatically make the revanent garbage? The claymore clears content in similar fashion to all the other weapons and against enemies with HUGE pools of health and defenses like YMIR mechs (who most people aren't going to be using a shotgun against any way) loses ground. Enemy vanguards, engineers, and co don't present the same problem.

As for reasons to use it, the same reasons you use the widow instead of a viper. If you don't have dlc weapons it is the ONLY one shot one kill shotgun in the game. If that is enough to carry the widow it's enough to carry the claymore.

[edit here] Not to mention that using the reload trick it outperforms the stock shotguns by a wider margin than the widow can outperform the stock sniper rifles or the revenant can outperform stock assault rifles. Without the trick it's still a damned good weapon, with it it becomes a dominant one. I fail to see the problem here.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[TheBestClass]

The fact that it's the only one shot, one kill shotgun in the game just like the Widow is the only one shot kill sniper in the game does not vindicate it. The Widow is used at a distance, it's ability to one shot things and then have to reload is tolerable because you're typically at a safe distance to do so.

The Widow does it's job as a sniper rifle arguably better than the Viper because you only have to pop out for a second to kill someone while the Viper takes prolonged fire. You kill a guy in one shot, move to a better position but still maintain your safety because it's a sniper rifle that you use from behind cover. The Claymore doesn't have the range of the Widow, obviously, and is meant to function in a completely opposite manner. You charge in and kill one guy but you're left stranded while you reload and enemies shoot you from 3 feet away while you desperately try to find cover. the Claymore doesn't do it's job better than the other shotguns because it's slow, and leaves you open to gunfire too long. What makes a great or marginally better sniper rifle is not the same thing that makes a great shotgun.

[sinosleep]

You only need to frantically find cover if you aren't smart enough to charge into groups near it.

[TheBestClass]

Or if you pick the Claymore.

[sinosleep]

Whatever man, keep on talking out of your ass while I remain the only one posting video evidence. Why I even bother with some of you is beyond me.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:49 .

[TheBestClass]

You're the only one posting video evidence because I play on the Xbox. I also don't get angry when someone else presents a different opinion about a video game, but I guess you're still being the bigger man here. Anyway, I never wanted to get in an argument that nobody will ever win. I just wanted to present what I thought was an balance issue that might need looking into from Bioware. Since I now know that they don't plan on fixing it I guess I got my answer. Honestly, I don't know what defending the Claymore was doing for some of you. The worst thing that could have happened for you guys would be Bioware admitting they should fix the thing and making it better.

[sinosleep]

I didn't get angry because someone had a different opinion this was a smart ass reply

TheBestclass wrote...

Or if you pick the Claymore.

I decided to be just as much of a smart ass about it.

Before that post all I had done was repeatedly proven you wrong. The weapon can't be

The weapon is still pretty mediocre, you're just defending the use of the reload trick, which would have never been needed if the shotgun could stand on it's own merits.

even when using the reload trick if it ranks ahead of the other shotguns by more than the widow and rev rank over the other assault and sniper rifles.

The weapon can't be totaly worthless or have this issue

I don't care if people use the reload trick or not but it shouldn't make or break a weapon.

if I can prove it can clear content in the same amount of time as it's counterparts, unless you want to say here and nw that all shotguns suck.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[EKozski]

sinosleep, I'm a very big fan of yours. Granted, I don't leave a comment or two. But, I, like many others, appriciate all your hard work explaining things and showing the difference between weapons, powers, classes and armour.

Trust me, I'm a horrible shot and whatnot. But, I manage to get by. I finally found a game I enjoy playing over and over again, and with your help and many others, you guys make it more enjoyable and understandable.

Thank you!

Modifié par EKozski, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:33 .

[TheBestClass]

Wasn't as funny though. I also didn't take it personally and put myself above "some of you." This is no longer an intelligent discussion and should probably be locked.

[sinosleep]

It's kind of hard not to when I've run into this same nonsense before. Someone says X is the way it is and that's that. I post video that clearly that's not the case, and yet the guy not posting evidence continues going on about how X is the way it is and that's that. It was the same when people said you couldn't charge on insanity, it was the same when people said the shotguns were worthless before they knew it was 8 pellets a shot and not 4, it was the same when people said the reload trick was an exploit even though there was proof to the contrary MONTHS ago, and now it's leaning the same way with this thread.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[TheBestClass]

I'm not saying the Claymore is useless, I'm saying it's not the upgrade it should have been. It works for you, that's cool. you play on the PC and have all these neat little videos. I've played through the game a couple of times and noticed the DLC shotguns are better than the Claymore. It's the same observation many other people have made which is why they ignore the gun completely. Others learn to use the Claymore most effectively through the use of a little known exploit that they claim is part of it's charm when in reality it makes a sub par shotgun more tolerable. If they fixed the thing then we wouldn't have to deal with the exploit in the first place. I understand that the things I've seen you do with the Claymore in some of your vids are not anything I could ever do on the Xbox. The gun works on the Xbox, it's just not as good as it is on the PC because of the reload trick. The gun is good, it's just not as good as the DLC shotguns which would be fine if it wasn't sold as the ultimate shotgun. All these factors added together make for a frustrating, easily fixed issue that mainly affects the console players who should not get shafted just because they play the game on a different format.

[sinosleep]

Post release DLC doesn't some how make what was included in the game on release suddenly victim to bad design. All it does it show that DLC, particularly paid for DLC tends to be over powered. It was the case in Dragon Age and it is the case in Mass Effect.

People had to pay for the mattock, surprise surprise it winds up having the most obscene dps in the game. People had to pay for the gps, surprise surprise, it winds up not only out dpsing the claymore but it out does every other shotgun in the game from midrange as well. People had to pay for the arc projector, which easily has the biggest bang for the buck due to a) ease of use as far as aiming goes, and b.) positively ridiculous crowd control while at the same time doing equally good single target dps.

I'm sure whenever Bioware decides to release a sniper rifle that wasn't already included in some of the launch packages it will put the widow to shame as well. None of those facts make any of the weapons getting outclassed by DLC inherently badly designed. It just makes the DLC OP.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:03 .

[mosor]

sinosleep wrote...

Post release DLC doesn't some how make what was included in the game on release suddenly victim to bad design. All it does it show that DLC, particularly paid for DLC tends to be over powered. It was the case in Dragon Age and it is the case in Mass Effect.

People had to pay for the mattock, surprise surprise it winds up having the most obscene dps in the game. People had to pay for the gps, surprise surprise, it winds up not only out dpsing the claymore but it out does every other shotgun in the game from midrange as well. People had to pay for the arc projector, which easily has the biggest bang for the buck due to a) ease of use as far as aiming goes, and b.) positively ridiculous crowd control while at the same time doing equally good single target dps.

I'm sure whenever Bioware decides to release a sniper rifle that wasn't already included in some of the launch packages it will put the widow to shame as well. None of those facts make any of the weapons getting outclassed by DLC inherently badly designed. It just makes the DLC OP.

The sad thing is the DLC items don't really change how you play the game. It just makes the game easier. All they need now is a heavy heapon with the power of the cain with the same number of shots as the grenade launcher. Like all other DLC weapons and items, the challenge will be minimized, but the bad ass quotient will increased. Don't worry, it's a single player game and its totally up to the person to use these bad ass new weapons.

[godlike13]

OniGanon wrote...

I've looked up the 360 controller scheme and concluded that you all need to learn how to hold your controller properly. Use your right thumb on the thumbstick, middle finger in the space between the RT and RB, and your index finger is curled so that it lays diagonally between the coloured face buttons. From this position, every button is accessible at all times. It takes a little getting used to, but if you're going to play a shooting game on a console, this is the only way to do it.

Um, NO ITS NOT!

I play shooters just fine, and perfectly proper with out having to curl my index finger in a awkward position. This includes ME2. That is far from the only way to do it. The point of the console controller is functionality and comfortability. The reload trick is just not worth sacrificing comfortability IMO, nor is it worth sacrificing the quick flow by having to pause for accurate aiming.

Modifié par godlike13, 22 septembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[godlike13]

TheBestclass wrote...

If they fixed the thing then we wouldn't have to deal with the exploit in the first place.

To be fair, the gun is not broken. Its just next to the DLC it looks kind of broken . Befor the DLC i loved the Claymore regardless of the trick, loved it. Just, after they released the Evi, then the GPS, the Claymore has just lost its place, and its flaws became that much more apparent.

Now i get what ur saying, the Claymore should not have to rely on a trick to be effective, a trick that's way more accessible to PCs then consoles even, but regardless the Claymore is still effective with out the trick. Its just now thanks to the DLC, it has a very hard time keeping up with the likes of the Evi and the GPS without this trick, again a trick that's way more accessible, and effective even, to PCs then to consoles <_<.

Though now that i really think about i did pay additional money for the firepower pack. So, it would have really sucked if the weapons weren't that effective. I believe the Evi was free though .

Modifié par godlike13, 22 septembre 2010 - 01:45 .

[Terraneaux]

RGFrog wrote...

Which is sad since the competition between mod and dlc should've resulted in better DLC, but never really did and never will.

Easier to redefine the parameters of the game then actually, you know, excel.