211 réponses à ce sujet

[TheodoricFriede]

I think sinosleep is forgetting that it doesn't matter what weapon is put in his hands, hes going to destroy anything with it because hes in that 99th percentile that can play this game blindfolded. And that hes playing this game on the PC, or at least that's what i gather from his videos.

He cant possibly understand the issues of a console player. That's why i just gave up this argument.

I was arguing 1 is less then 2, he was arguing 2 is less then 3.

[Evilbrood]

For the average Joe, the claymore is not too appealing on the console.

[cihimi]

Terraneaux wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Which is sad since the competition between mod and dlc should've resulted in better DLC, but never really did and never will.

Easier to redefine the parameters of the game then actually, you know, excel.

Win.

[PsyrenY]

Hootie719 wrote...

The problem though, and the reason people don't like the reload trick, is that a player shouldn't have to rely on manipulating the system to improve gameplay. The gameplay should stand on its own merits.

Canceling animations isn't "manipulating the system." It's PART of the system.

Any game that contains binary states separated by an animation (the "click" of the reload in this case, or the hitspark of a fighting game, the danger flash in a rail shooter etc.) BENEFIT from the player having good reflexes. That is simply How It Is.

[sinosleep]

TheodoricFriede wrote...

I think sinosleep is forgetting that it doesn't matter what weapon is put in his hands, hes going to destroy anything with it because hes in that 99th percentile that can play this game blindfolded. And that hes playing this game on the PC, or at least that's what i gather from his videos.
He cant possibly understand the issues of a console player. That's why i just gave up this argument.
I was arguing 1 is less then 2, he was arguing 2 is less then 3.

While I do play ME 2 on PC (and any other shooter if it can be helped) I can understand the issues of a console gamer, which is why I made some vids without the reload trick. I can make more but I have a feeling it doesn't matter what I record, or what times I get nothing is really going to change cause frankly that's the internet.

I'm glad I bookmarked this and archived it on my hard drive cause it's NEVER happening again, lol.

Optimystic_X wrote...

Canceling animations isn't "manipulating the system." It's PART of the system.

Any game that contains binary states separated by an animation (the "click"of the reload in this case, or the hitspark of a fighting game, the danger flash in a rail shooter etc.) BENEFIT from the player having good reflexes. That is simply How It Is.

Amen, unless he wants to make the argument that anyone that's any good at basically any fighting game is manipulating the game instead of playing the games as they're designed to be played. Which would be weird, since in games like Street Fighter it's practically impossible to land something as basic as the super combos every character is provided with without buffering into it.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:46 .

[AntiChri5]

sinosleep wrote...

I'm glad I bookmarked this and archived it on my hard drive cause it's NEVER happening again, lol.

WHat the hell!

An INTERNET debate changing someones mind?

[OniGanon]

godlike13 wrote...
Um, NO ITS NOT!

I play shooters just fine, and perfectly proper with out having to curl my index finger in a awkward position. This includes ME2. That is far from the only way to do it. The point of the console controller is functionality and comfortability. The reload trick is just not worth sacrificing comfortability IMO, nor is it worth sacrificing the quick flow by having to pause for accurate aiming.

Well yeah okay, have fun being completely unable to aim or turn while meleeing, storming or using your class power.

[godlike13]

OniGanon wrote...

godlike13 wrote...
Um, NO ITS NOT!

I play shooters just fine, and perfectly proper with out having to curl my index finger in a awkward position. This includes ME2. That is far from the only way to do it. The point of the console controller is functionality and comfortability. The reload trick is just not worth sacrificing comfortability IMO, nor is it worth sacrificing the quick flow by having to pause for accurate aiming.

Well yeah okay, have fun being completely unable to aim or turn while meleeing, storming or using your class power.

Ok, i will .

I'll still have plenty of fun even though im unable to aim or turn while meleeing, beside for the Claymore there isn't really much need to actually do that. We consoles storm just fine, and given a Vanguard really only needs quick access to 3 class powers, that's just fine too. U can be confined to ur computer station, keyboard, and mouse if u want to, but ill take the ease, convenience, freedom, and comfortability of my controller and still play my shooters, and ME2, perfectly proper without having to curl my index finger in an awkward position .

Modifié par godlike13, 22 septembre 2010 - 04:38 .

[Permutation]

Pretty sure the claymore is still deals the most damage at close range from a single shot, not counting a fully charged shot from the geth shotgun.

[PsyrenY]

Evilbrood wrote...

For the average Joe, the claymore is not too appealing on the console.

And that's fine - there are 2-4 other perfectly good shotguns for us console players to choose from. I personally like the Scimitar/Mattock combo on my Vanguard, because I like as little pausing as possible and the reload trick is iffy for me otherwise.

[Gumbeaux Jr]

I love these forums...

[AntiChri5]

I was Scimitar Collector AR, which changed to Eviscerator Vindicator, and is now Evisc Mattock.

[OniGanon]

All controller positions are uncomfortable when you first learn them. You just have to get used to it. I've been mostly on Nintendo systems so the standard dualshock/360 position with first and second fingers on the four shoulder buttons still feels thoroughly awkward to me.

[termokanden]

I use the standard setup and honestly I didn't realize there was a problem with meleeing until I read these forums. I'm simply very fast at moving my finger back and forth and can quite frankly melee just fine on insanity as it is.



I can aim better with a mouse and keyboard for sure, but I don't recognize these huge problems using controllers that some people seem to be having (or claim that others have).



Now games that force you to push the thumbsticks a lot, THOSE are annoying.

[godlike13]

termokanden wrote...

I use the standard setup and honestly I didn't realize there was a problem with meleeing until I read these forums. I'm simply very fast at moving my finger back and forth and can quite frankly melee just fine on insanity as it is.

So ur saying u can continuously click melee while at the very same time adjust ur aim to continuously shoot accurately and on target now? 

The problem is not with general meleeing, but with meleeing to take useful advantage of the trick.

Modifié par godlike13, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:24 .

[termokanden]

I'm not saying it's optimal, sure it's not. But reading this thread it seems like console players are severely handicapped and can't play the game on insanity at all. People are making way too big a deal out of this.

In answer to your question, you can sort of adjust your aim (since you're not actually holdown down , but no obviously I can't have the same finger on B and the right thumbstick at the same time.

Modifié par termokanden, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[godlike13]

termokanden wrote...

I'm not saying it's optimal, sure it's not. But reading this thread it seems like console players are severely handicapped and can't play the game on insanity at all. People are making way too big a deal out of this.

In answer to your question, you can sort of adjust your aim (since you're not actually holdown down , but no obviously I can't have the same finger on B and the right thumbstick at the same time.

Ok, fair enough. I happen to totally agree BTW . The only thing the consoles can't do very well is click the melee button while simultaneously aim. Given the only time this becomes a problem is when trying the do the Claymore reload trick effectively, its not really a big a deal at all. Does it kind of suck that the Claymore kind of loses its optimal effectiveness, sure, but there are plenty of other guns that work very well too, regardless of any trick. So other than that, consoles manage just fine

[Kronner]

godlike13 wrote...

To be fair, the gun is not broken. Its just next to the DLC it looks kind of broken

No it does not. GPS is a Katana with long range capability and option to fire two shots at the same time. Charging it up takes 2 seconds and is overkill most of the time. Claymore (reload trick obviously) can fire every 1.5s and kills regular enemy with one shot too. Once you are close with GPS and you fire the first charged up shot (which leads to the same result as regular shot from the Claymore unless you shoot at elite enemy, GPS does more damage there), you are holding a Katana with better range.

Eviscerator is pretty much equal to the Claymore. A little less damage, slightly better RoF (1.25s).

So while Claymore is not hands down best shotgun, it definitely is not worse for close combat than any DLC shotgun.

Modifié par Kronner, 22 septembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[cihimi]

I just hope Bioware doesn't put out another shotgun.... <rolleyes>

[godlike13]

Kronner wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

To be fair, the gun is not broken. Its just next to the DLC it looks kind of broken

No it does not. GPS is a Katana with long range capability and option to fire two shots at the same time. Charging it up takes 2 seconds and is overkill most of the time. Claymore (reload trick obviously) can fire every 1.5s and kills regular enemy with one shot too. Once you are close with GPS and you fire the first charged up shot (which leads to the same result as regular shot from the Claymore unless you shoot at elite enemy, GPS does more damage there), you are holding a Katana with better range.

Eviscerator is pretty much equal to the Claymore. A little less damage, slightly better RoF (1.25s).

So while Claymore is not hands down best shotgun, it definitely is not worse for close combat than any DLC shotgun.

Like it or not, with out the reload trick, it has a hard time competing with the DLC shotguns. The GPS is a more powerful Katana with long range capability and option to fire two shots at the same time which will equal more one shot, one kill damage then the Claymore. So, once you are close with GPS and you fire the first charged up shot you are left holding a more powerful Katana with better range to mop up. Compare to the Claymore, where after ur first shot ur just left holding a thermal clip, unless u utilize the reload trick.

Eviscerator is pretty much equal to the Claymore, when u factor in the reload trick. Other wise the Eviscerator offers that one shot kill ability of the Claymore for the most part, but in a much more forgiving way due to a better fire rate, and better range even.

Modifié par godlike13, 22 septembre 2010 - 05:29 .

[Kronner]

Yes, I agree. I just thought saying it is broken is silly. Without the reload trick Claymore is significantly weaker, but still awesome hit and run gun. The reload trick allows you to go all in.
Maybe BW will buff Claymore for ME3, but I do not care about that, for me Claymore is already the best shotgun by far.

Modifié par Kronner, 22 septembre 2010 - 05:31 .

[godlike13]

Kronner wrote...

Yes, I agree. I just thought saying it is broken is silly. Without the reload trick Claymore is significantly weaker, but still awesome hit and run gun. The reload trick allows you to go all in.
Maybe BW will buff Claymore for ME3, but I do not care about that, for me Claymore is already the best shotgun by far.

Fair enough

[Pooh-bah]

I just wanna say I used the Claymore on my Insanity Vanguard and didn't bother with the reload trick. I thought the weapon was insanely awesome.

[PsyrenY]

Kronner wrote...

Yes, I agree. I just thought saying it is broken is silly. Without the reload trick Claymore is significantly weaker, but still awesome hit and run gun. The reload trick allows you to go all in.
Maybe BW will buff Claymore for ME3, but I do not care about that, for me Claymore is already the best shotgun by far.

With the trick it is, but I don't consider it the best without it myself. It's definitely great though.

[Bozorgmehr]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Yes, I agree. I just thought saying it is broken is silly. Without the reload trick Claymore is significantly weaker, but still awesome hit and run gun. The reload trick allows you to go all in.
Maybe BW will buff Claymore for ME3, but I do not care about that, for me Claymore is already the best shotgun by far.

With the trick it is, but I don't consider it the best without it myself. It's definitely great though.

All depends what one considers to be 'best' - I like Claymore best, because it has all the characteristics a shotgun should have, no other SG can come close to the feeling I get when firing Claymore. You just know its beastly (sound, looks and recoil); Claymore rocks (and rolls with reload trick) - by far my favorite ME2 weapon