211 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBestClass]

This isn't a fighting game where it's expected to learn all the ins and outs of the system to have an advantage over a human opponent. This is a single player game which is hiding the fact that the shotgun which is supposed to be great once you learn it's quirks is completely reliant on a quirk that has nothing to do with the nature of the weapon itself.

If I were playing a fighting game and found myself matched against an opponent who understood an exploit in the game which worked for every character and has nothing to do with actual strategy than I would be understandably frustrated because that player is cheating and his true skill as a player is never really tested. It's like spawn killing in an fps. Just because it's there doesn't make it right to use it.

Thank goodness this is a single player game. Still, the reload trick is an exploit, no matter how many times the developers encourage you to use it, I don't care that it's there but couldn't they at least make the Claymore slightly better than the other shotguns without having to use it.

So, you found a way to make an inherently average weapon great because you ignore the characteristics of that weapon with an in game function that's goofy and nonsensical. You've proven that you're an awesome player and the rest of us are garbage for not wanting to do the same.

[Bozorgmehr]

I don't understand, first you're saying:

TheBestclass wrote...

Thank goodness this is a single player game.

Then you're saying:

TheBestclass wrote...

You've proven that you're an awesome player and the rest of us are garbage for not wanting to do the same.

What's the point here exactly? ME2 is single player, so everyone can play the way they like. If you don't like the Claymore; don't use it, all the other shotties are fine too. I do like the Claymore and I even modded the game so my Adept can use it too - great fun (and yes I do use the reload trick). This has absolutely nothing to do with cheating, this ain't multiplayer - if you call the reload trick cheating, those using it are only fooling themselves.

[PsyrenY]

It's pretty clear the reload trick isn't cheating from the blue posts in this thread.

[sinosleep]

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's pretty clear the reload trick isn't cheating from the blue posts in this thread.

Why even bother replying? He's made it perfectly clear that even if it's coming from the lead gameplay designer, and even if it's in fighting games where these things are added and removed for balancing in between itterations they're all exploits and that's that. Why even try to make a debate out of it? He's made up his mind, let him be.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 septembre 2010 - 09:13 .

[RAIDENKUN]

Why even bother replying? He's made it perfectly clear that he has an opinion that's contrary to my own. He faces a difficulty as a console player that I don't face on the PC, so he must be inherently wrong because I can do the reload trick (trick - noun: "a crafty or underhanded device, maneuver, stratagem, or the like, intended to deceive or cheat; artifice; ruse; wile.") with relative ease. Even if the lead gameplay designer tries to cover her own ass by excusing a glaring disparity between the capabilities of the Claymore on the PC and on the 360, he simply can't be reasoned with. Why even try to make a debate out of it? I've made up my mind, let me be correct.



That is what you really meant sinosleep, right?

[RAIDENKUN]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Guys, stop this childish going-at-your-throats or this thread will get locked soon. Please refrain from petty arguements and concentrate on being productive, creative and beloved forumites working all together to help BioWare forge a worthy Mass Effect 3.
Isn't that all we want in here!?

We all want to contribute to a productive conversation, but clearly this thread has reached an impasse. Part of us (mainly the console users) would like to discuss the benefits of improving the ability of the claymore so that it can optimally function without any "tricks." Everyone else (i.e. sinosleep and his entourage) just wants to tout their skill at manipulating the reload trick on the PC while insisting that console users are not only inferior players but apparently inferior thinkers. It's probably due time that this thread is locked anyhow since conversation has degenerated to a petty squabble over individual abilities.

[Glory71]

TheBestclass wrote...

As a console player I'd just like to say that the Claymore is not the magnificent weapon it is on the PC. The Claymore requires you to use an exploit to make it any good in the first place which isn't so bad, I guess, except that the "reload trick" isn't nearly as easy to pull off or as quick as it is on the PC. This really isn't a big issue but it's just disappointing to get to the collector ship and have to chose between a crappy shotgun and assault/sniper rifles which don't feel very Vanguard-like. The Soldier gets the Rev and the Infiltrator gets the Widow. Both these weapons allow their classes to play as they're advertised, only better. The Vanguard, at least on the console, should get the same treatment. At least make it able to fire 3 times before reloading or something.

The claymore is my 'personal' choice of weapon for Vanguard. The reload trick fits well for this weapon. However, I do agree that the claymore needs to be patched for console owners. NOT to buff the weapon but rather give them the ability to re-arrange the buttons so that the *Reload Trick* can be achieved much easier.

I recon you are trying out the Vanguard class. Right now...if you are a console player...and this patch ("Button Mod" or something) is not available yet for console...I would suggest you pick other training. I know what you mean pulling of the reload trick on console can be quite frustrating. Personally...I think the DEVs never even thought of this reload trick for claymore...otherwise...they would have made these buttons user friendly for the consoles right from the very beginning.

[Permutation]

Why is everyone here so upset? Christina has provided a perfectly reasonable explanation and offered a solution. It's not like anyone is being forced into a cross-platform multiplayer deathmatch with players on PC. In which case, players on a 360 would be at a disadvantage anyway, regardless of any reload exploit. Other than the reload technique, which is an exploit (one of many that are only possible on a PC), the weapon's performance is identical to it's PC counterpart.

Modifié par Permutation, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:30 .

[AntiChri5]

RAIDENKUN could you stop attempting to speak for all console users?



Please?

[PsyrenY]

AntiChri5 wrote...

RAIDENKUN could you stop attempting to speak for all console users?

Please?

This.

[RobotNixon]

You leave the Mattlock alone you sons of guns!

I finally get an assault rifle that my Infiltrator finds worth using and you Vanguards want to nerf it.

Modifié par RobotNixon, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:53 .

[RAIDENKUN]

AntiChri5 wrote...

RAIDENKUN could you stop attempting to speak for all console users?

Please?

Quote the portion of my posts where I speak for ALL console users and I'll gladly stop. Otherwise why don't you stick to the topic at hand, and as a disgruntled console user, enlighten us all as to why you think the reload trick works so well on the 360.

[RubyRed1975]

I'm not trying to be funny but, what is this reload trick that everyone is talking about?

[ryoldschool]

xbox player here, and comments about the claymore being not so great I can relate to. I played two vanguard playthroughs, one on hardcore ( took sniper on cs ), then did insanity and took the Claymore. Never finished the Claymore run because it was such a letdown - that was two months ago. That is the option we have - play something you like. Since 80 percent of players play soldier, then bioware probably worries about improving that game more. Its a great game and I'm glad there are a lot of PC players out there because I really appreciate the videos they are able to post. We should not be getting too excited about this.

[sinosleep]

RAIDENKUN wrote...

We all want to contribute to a productive conversation, but clearly this thread has reached an impasse. Part of us (mainly the console users) would like to discuss the benefits of improving the ability of the claymore so that it can optimally function without any "tricks." Everyone else (i.e. sinosleep and his entourage) just wants to tout their skill at manipulating the reload trick on the PC while insisting that console users are not only inferior players but apparently inferior thinkers. It's probably due time that this thread is locked anyhow since conversation has degenerated to a petty squabble over individual abilities.

The OP continues to call the reload trick an exploit when it's not. That's a statement of fact.

The OP has implied getting upset about players cutting off animations in fighting games would be reasonable. Even though it's been a part of fighting games for over a decade. An INTENTIONAL part of fighting games.  That's a statement of fact.

The OP has repeatedly said he doesn't care who says what, it's an exploit and that's that.

The OP said even a reload trick claymore is mediocre, I have posted video evidence that the only weapon in it's league at that point is the GPS.

Several posters have implied that I have something againt consoles. Which is why I provided photo evidence that I have all three. Which would be odd for someone that doesn't understand the difference in mechanics between PC and console games and held some kind of disdane for console gamers.

I haven't said word one about whether or not the reload trick requires any more or less skill to pull off on either platform. I haven't said anything about me personally being better than anyone at this game. All I've done is put to bed blatant lies about the claymore, with or without the reload trick can do. You are simply making things up out of thin air because that's what people like you do. When all the facts point to the opposite of what your own point is you just make things up. If you could actually quote me doing any of the nonsense you've claimed I have then you would, but you can't, cause I haven't.

You aren't going to win an argument against the guy posting evidence by making things up. You can go ahead and keep trying though.

Modifié par sinosleep, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[AntiChri5]

Quote the portion of my posts where I speak for ALL console users and I'll gladly stop.

No. You have done it far too many times for me to bother.

Otherwise why don't you stick to the topic at hand

I have already said all i need to, now im worried about you making all console users look like ****s

as a disgruntled console user

This is exactly what i was talkimg about, why must i be disgruntled simply because i play on 360?

enlighten us all as to why you think the reload trick works so well on the 360.

Because i didnt have any trouble doing it, perhaps?

[godlike13]

Permutation wrote...

Why is everyone here so upset?

I agree. We consoles can't use the Claymore as effectively. Does it kind of suck, ya, but it is what it is. Will have to live with the Claymore as is, which is still pretty damn fun, though challenging, or just stick with the Evi or the GPS. Oh, the horror.

The GPS wasn't free anyway, so its nice to get are money's worth.

[godlike13]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Because i didnt have any trouble doing it, perhaps?

Left handed, or two right thumbs perhaps?  Doing it is not the problem, being accurate and doing it is the problem. Kind of hard to continuously click melee with ur thumb wile at the very same time use it to aim accordingly. Now u can curl ur index finger awkwardly like someone mention earlier, but now ur sacrificing comfort.

Modifié par godlike13, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:36 .

[sinosleep]

I have a question for the 360 crowd, do you HAVE to fire right when you hit melee in order to do the reload trick? When I was making the no reload trick video the other day I was toying around with trying to figure out a way to sneak a melee in between shots (which I actually find to be the biggest issue with no reload trick claymore, you can't melee in between shots because if you don't do the reload trick you don't finish reloading, and using melee after the reload just slows you down further) and was basically just pulling off the reload trick without firing. I know it would be slightly slower, but wouldn't it be easier to fire, hit the melee button, then fire again, to make sure you're still on target? Instead of doing the traditional hold down the fire button, melee and fire and the same time method.

Modifié par sinosleep, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[TheBestClass]

This is getting pretty nasty. If sinosleep can recognize that the weapon is tougher to use at it's full potential (with the reload trick) on the console. Then I can accept that the reload trick is a function of the game's combat. This was never what I wanted to debate anyway. I made a mistake claiming that this is an exploit. I didn't care that it was in the game, I was just mad that some weapons need it more than others to have an advantage. That still doesn't change the effectiveness of the weapon on the Xbox. I asked if the developers would maybe look into patching the Claymore to make it a little easier to use on the 360. Whether they did that by making the reload trick easier to do or buffing the Claymore didn't matter to me. Now that I know they don't plan on doing this, the whole thread has become a pointless, angry mess.

[AntiChri5]

godlike13 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Because i didnt have any trouble doing it, perhaps?

Left handed, or two right thumbs perhaps?  Doing it is not the problem, being accurate and doing it is the problem. Kind of hard to continuously click melee with ur thumb wile at the very same time use it to aim accordingly. Now u can curl ur index finger awkwardly like someone mention earlier, but now ur sacrificing comfort.

I get my reticle in the right spot so i dont have to use the right stick much, hold down the fire button, and press b when i need to. It isnt that hard.

[godlike13]

sinosleep wrote...

I have a question for the 360 crowd, do you HAVE to fire right when you hit melee in order to do the reload trick? When I was making the no reload trick video the other day I was toying around with trying to figure out a way to sneak a melee in between shots (which I actually find to be the biggest issue with no reload trick claymore, you can't melee in between shots because if you don't do the reload trick you don't finish reloading, and using melee after the reload just slows you down further) and was basically just pulling off the reload trick without firing. I know it would be slightly slower, but wouldn't it be easier to fire, hit the melee button, then fire again, to make sure you're still on target? Instead of doing the traditional hold down the fire button, melee and fire and the same time method.

Yes, but still it becomes very hard to be accurate. Especially if there's multiple targets. Even like that, The reload trick kind of turns the Claymore in to a spray and pray weapon.

[AntiChri5]

sinosleep wrote...

I have a question for the 360 crowd, do you HAVE to fire right when you hit melee in order to do the reload trick? When I was making the no reload trick video the other day I was toying around with trying to figure out a way to sneak a melee in between shots (which I actually find to be the biggest issue with no reload trick claymore, you can't melee in between shots because if you don't do the reload trick you don't finish reloading, and using melee after the reload just slows you down further) and was basically just pulling off the reload trick without firing. I know it would be slightly slower, but wouldn't it be easier to fire, hit the melee button, then fire again, to make sure you're still on target? Instead of doing the traditional hold down the fire button, melee and fire and the same time method.

It's hard enough that, once i mastered it, i decided it wasnt worth the trouble and i really missed my assault rifle.

[RAIDENKUN]

@sinosleep

If you need to deal in facts, then so be it:

Christina Norman said, "I could see how PC players could get faster/accurate reload trickery I'll try to tune that separately in ME3 to make things a more equivalent experience." This is a statement of fact.

Whether it is referred to as a "trick"("a crafty or underhanded device") or an "exploit"(that which is taken exploited or taken advantage of) is beside the point. The operation is not necessarily an obvious one for those who are not aware of it. It stands beyond the maneuvering of regular advertised play. This is a statement of fact.

The OP has continuously asked for ideas on how the Claymore can be better tuned on consoles to make a "more equivalent experience" as Christina Norman said. This has been largely ignored in favor of arguing over the Claymore's combat effectiveness.

Compared to the two DLC shotguns, the quality of the Claymore has decreased relative to the effectiveness of the Eviscerator and the GPS. Where once the Claymore had unmatched abilities in its weapon class, it is now of comparatively lesser ability. When 3 (Eviscerator, GPS, and Claymore) out of 5 shotguns are of similar effectiveness, one can only classify each of them as average (aka mediocre). Seeing as the other 2 guns (Katana and Scimitar) become considered below the average, they are therefore sub-standard rather than the other 3 being above the average.

But the most important fact, is that this discussion is over a matter of opinion. I believe that the claymore could use a boost so that I don't have to play ME2 as though it's Mortal Kombat. If I wanted to play a fighting game and button mash for fatality combos, then I wouldn't be playing the boiled-down RPG/third-person shooter that is ME2. If that's your thing then I might suggest Street Fighter IV, I hear it's a good one. You on the other hand clearly see no problem with the Claymore as it stands. If you enjoy the challenge of fidgeting with the 360 controller in order to pull off the reload trick, then my hat's off to you, you must be a very skilled player. Nothing I can say will make you less able to pull off the reload trick, just as nothing you can say will convince me that I don't enjoy using it but would still like the Claymore to be the powerhouse shotgun that it was pre-DLC.

With this as the case, can we agree to disagree on this issue?

If you have suggestions as to how to improve the Claymore, as this thread topic states, then I think we would all benefit from hearing the knowledge of such an experienced gamer. If however, as it seems, you have no problem with the operation of the Claymore on a console, then this probably isn't the thread to be wasting your time on arguing with us Claymore heretics.