64 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaylord]

Use it when you don´t have something better. Better skills are all other biotic skills.^^ Slam can´t throw off ledges, warp explosions are better done with Pull since timing with with your own warp is tedious.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Pull can affect groups, slam doesn't. But pull can be bad when you pull in an explosive foe, and sometimes in the heat of battle you forget when the target lands right behind you . Slam at least gives you tactical advantage in that you always know where they end up. As an adept, as well as a player who dislikes having to pause, there are only 3 powers available for hotkey. Singularity takes up 1 slot, which leaves me with warp and another power. If I use slam, I can still get max pull or max throw, but it doesn't make sense to hotkey throw/pull AND slam while NOT hot-keying warp. Because of this, one of the two powers will be the odd man out. Either singularity/warp/pull (ammo power as bonus) or singuliarity/warp/slam (throw/pull not assigned). If you don't mind pausing or switching hotkeys alot, then I guess it's not so much an issue.

I guess other kinds of adept builds can forgo warp or singularity and use their bonus power exclusively but I haven't tried them yet.

[tonnactus]

m14567 wrote...

Um you can trigger warp explosions, it has a stun effect on enemies that have defenses, it does reasonable damage and does brief CC against enemies left only with health.  And it only has a 3 second cooldown.  That seems pretty  reasonable to me and not a waste of points. Oh and it kills husks...

EDIT: It insta kills on SB ship which is a nice bonus too.

Do you play a vanguard for warp explosions? And i rather use charge then waste my cooldown on enemies with defenses.Cyro ammo is better for crowd control and husk killing anyway. By the way,stasis kill armored husks...

[sinosleep]

tonnactus wrote...

Do you play a vanguard for warp explosions? And i rather use charge then waste my cooldown on enemies with defenses.Cyro ammo is better for crowd control and husk killing anyway. By the way,stasis kill armored husks...

Vanguards can make very good use of warp bombs. And for vanguards that don't want to sacrifice squad cryo slam is a better option than low level pull and wasted points in shockwave. If I'm making a pull build, its going to be with pull field, which means you have to sacrifice squad cryo.

Modifié par sinosleep, 23 septembre 2010 - 04:38 .

[Ares Caesar]

sinosleep wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Do you play a vanguard for warp explosions? And i rather use charge then waste my cooldown on enemies with defenses.Cyro ammo is better for crowd control and husk killing anyway. By the way,stasis kill armored husks...

Vanguards can make very good use of warp bombs. And for vanguards that don't want to sacrifice squad cryo slam is a better option than low level pull and wasted points in shockwave. If I'm making a pull build, its going to be with pull field, which means you have to sacrifice squad cryo.

I'm already positive you know more about the game than I do, and probably have much better strategies(I've seen your vid playthroughs), so correct me if I'm wrong (in fact I'm actually hoping you will because I havent played Vanguard yet and am thinking of builds to do so), but why would you HAVE to sacrifice squad cryo for pull field?

Here's example build with pt distribution.

Incend Ammo 3
Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull 10
Assault Mast 10
EnergyDr/Reave 1-3

[Simbacca]

sinosleep wrote...

...If I'm making a pull build, its going to be with pull field, which means you have to sacrifice squad cryo.

Or you can have Pull Field and Squad Cryo, but have to leave Incendiary at rank 3.  Could work fine since with high damage shotguns like the Evi or Claymore, enemies will freeze post-Charge shotgun blast anyway.

edit:  oops, forgot to read Ares post, which says the same thing basically.

Modifié par Simbacca, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:05 .

[tonnactus]

sinosleep wrote...


Vanguards can make very good use of warp bombs.

I know,but i dont care. I dont play a vanguard for that plain and simple.

[Bozorgmehr]

I would never sacrifice Inferno Ammo playing Vanguard. It allows Charging right into a group of enemies - kill one and all the others are set aflame and panic, brilliant!

[sinosleep]

Ares Caesar wrote...

I'm already positive you know more about the game than I do, and probably have much better strategies(I've seen your vid playthroughs), so correct me if I'm wrong (in fact I'm actually hoping you will because I havent played Vanguard yet and am thinking of builds to do so), but why would you HAVE to sacrifice squad cryo for pull field?

Here's example build with pt distribution.

Incend Ammo 3
Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull 10
Assault Mast 10
EnergyDr/Reave 1-3

Don't second guess your strategies just because they might go against some of the established norms. At the end of the day you're the one playing so if you're comfortable with a infernoless build go for it. I was just working under the assumption that most vanguards max inferno ammo as well. You certainly don't have to, but it's an incredibly popular part of vanguard builds since it's free crowd control that works through defenses.

tonnactus wrote...

I know,but i dont care. I dont play a vanguard for that plain and simple.

I personally don't really use warp explosions much as a vanguard either, but the point I was making is that it's not as if making good use of slam to perform warp explosions really interferes with the charge at everything vanguard. The CD is short enough on slam where it's not really much of a break in the flow of charge and shotgun gameplay. That and well you asked what uses it had other than husk killing, and warp bombing is a pretty big use. Even if you don't personally use it yourself, I wouldn't dismiss the fact that you can as something minor.

Modifié par sinosleep, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[Ares Caesar]

sinosleep wrote...

Ares Caesar wrote...

I'm already positive you know more about the game than I do, and probably have much better strategies(I've seen your vid playthroughs), so correct me if I'm wrong (in fact I'm actually hoping you will because I havent played Vanguard yet and am thinking of builds to do so), but why would you HAVE to sacrifice squad cryo for pull field?

Here's example build with pt distribution.

Incend Ammo 3
Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull 10
Assault Mast 10
EnergyDr/Reave 1-3

Don't second guess your strategies just because they might go against some of the established norms. At the end of the day you're the one playing so if you're comfortable with a infernoless build go for it. I was just working under the assumption that most vanguards max inferno ammo as well. You certainly don't have to, but it's an incredibly popular part of vanguard builds since it's free crowd control that works through defenses.

Its not so much second guessing, as it is learning to take ideas from others who clearly have very good ideas and thoughts, and at the very least  if not smarter(not saying you are or arent) have a clear wealth of experience advantage (which you CLEARLY do, heh). I've played enough games and gotten pretty damn good at some, and usually its because I was able to take a lot of ideas from others, but as you say strategies should be adapted to yourself as well, because if you cant properly employ someone elses then it really isnt that valuable.

So your slam Vanguard would look like this?

Incend Ammo 10
Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 0
Pull 0
Assault Mast 10
Slam 10

Also, what powers do you usually progress first? I figure Charge is obviously the no brainer, but from there I'm not so settled on what to pump up, and again you have WAY more experience in the game than I do, so I'm just trying to get an idea of what seems to be the most helpful. Thanks again, and believe me, as a game efficiency geek I love all the info I get.

[sinosleep]

Ares Caesar wrote...

Its not so much second guessing, as it is learning to take ideas from others who clearly have very good ideas and thoughts, and at the very least  if not smarter(not saying you are or arent) have a clear wealth of experience advantage (which you CLEARLY do, heh). I've played enough games and gotten pretty damn good at some, and usually its because I was able to take a lot of ideas from others, but as you say strategies should be adapted to yourself as well, because if you cant properly employ someone elses then it really isnt that valuable.

So your slam Vanguard would look like this?

Incend Ammo 10
Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 0
Pull 0
Assault Mast 10
Slam 10

Also, what powers do you usually progress first? I figure Charge is obviously the no brainer, but from there I'm not so settled on what to pump up, and again you have WAY more experience in the game than I do, so I'm just trying to get an idea of what seems to be the most helpful. Thanks again, and believe me, as a game efficiency geek I love all the info I get.

Yup, that's what mine would look like. I usually go charge first, then max the passive (charge doesn't benefit from CD reduction research upgrades so the passive is pretty much the only way to reduce CD on it) after that you are pretty much free to move about the country.

If you have the time I would skim through at least the first page and the last couple of pages from the old vanguard tips and tricks thread since it has a metric ton of useful information and debate about vanguards.

Modifié par sinosleep, 23 septembre 2010 - 06:09 .

[NICKjnp]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

I would never sacrifice Inferno Ammo playing Vanguard. It allows Charging right into a group of enemies - kill one and all the others are set aflame and panic, brilliant!

I never waste points in ammo powers on Shepard unless Shepard is a soldier.  I just let squad members give me ammo powers and put the points in biotics.  I know... I don't play the vanguard right.... but I like it anywase.

[RGFrog]

Inferno Ammo 10
Squad Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull 1
Assault Mast 10
Whatever 6

Why not do it this way. I've never needed more than one point in pull for it to be effective. Especially if you're merely using it for warp bombs.

If you want to take slam, go right ahead. But there's better CC in stasis, better buffs in ED/Reave, etc.

Slam is a terrible choice for warp bombs as I've had squad mates not cast for as much as 3 seconds after the command. Well outside the lift stage of any slam. Whereas I've had only one warp bomb fail on a 1 point pull.

Also, slam is only one direction up and down. I can cast a pull to go in various directions.

Granted, having to unlock pull with shockwave is just plaing idiotic, but I still find myself using shockwave when I have it.

Pull field is far more useful to me than slam, and if I really want slam, I can also bennefit from an additional 15% weapon power from miri's passive.

Personally, I forgo cryo ammo. Yeah, everyone seems to like it, but I've not seen a difference in the speed of kills, nor in my survivabillity due to targets being frozen:

Inferno Ammo 10
cryo 0
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull Field 1
passive 10
Whatever bonus fits the mission 10

Modifié par RGFrog, 24 septembre 2010 - 04:11 .

[tonnactus]

m14567 wrote...

Not especially but I'm quite happy to take advantage of them.

Right.If so, a squadmate with pull field is better or that the vanguard himself has one point in pull.Its easier to make
warpbombs this way instead of not missing the short time to make warpbombs with slam.(forget it on console without
pausing)

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 septembre 2010 - 07:42 .

[jwalker]

RGFrog wrote...

Inferno Ammo 10
Squad Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull 1
Assault Mast 10
Whatever 6

That's the build I use. I always put 1 rank in pull. Not only for warp explosions. Sometimes the guy is to far for your shotty to be effective ( I don't like charging against an unprotected target unless I'm sure the charge alone will kill him). When he's floating, is an easy kill.
I may be wrong, but I have the impression your squaddies really like shooting flying foes. I noticed this when trying to set up a warp explosion. Sometimes, as soon as the guy starts floating, also starts to freeze. No bomb. I'm using inferno, so those are my buddies messing up my kill, even when there are plenty of other targets to shoot at.

Slam is a terrible choice for warp bombs as I've had squad mates not cast for as much as 3 seconds after the command. Well outside the lift stage of any slam. Whereas I've had only one warp bomb fail on a 1 point pull.

It helps when your squadmates (both of them) are completly out of Shepard's sight. In that situation, the cast is instantaneous. My guess is has to do with the animation not being shown.

[sinosleep]

RGFrog wrote...

Inferno Ammo 10
Squad Cryo Ammo 10
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull 1
Assault Mast 10
Whatever 6

Why not do it this way. I've never needed more than one point in pull for it to be effective. Especially if you're merely using it for warp bombs.

If you want to take slam, go right ahead. But there's better CC in stasis, better buffs in ED/Reave, etc.

Slam is a terrible choice for warp bombs as I've had squad mates not cast for as much as 3 seconds after the command. Well outside the lift stage of any slam. Whereas I've had only one warp bomb fail on a 1 point pull.

Also, slam is only one direction up and down. I can cast a pull to go in various directions.

Granted, having to unlock pull with shockwave is just plaing idiotic, but I still find myself using shockwave when I have it.

Pull field is far more useful to me than slam, and if I really want slam, I can also bennefit from an additional 15% weapon power from miri's passive.

Personally, I forgo cryo ammo. Yeah, everyone seems to like it, but I've not seen a difference in the speed of kills, nor in my survivabillity due to targets being frozen:

Inferno Ammo 10
cryo 0
Charge 10
Shockwave 3
Pull Field 1
passive 10
Whatever bonus fits the mission 10

I agree that pull field is better than slam (I even made a vid about it) , but if you aren't going to max it to pull field because you want to keep cryo and inferno ammo then slam is the better choice. The advantage of pull vs slam is largely that it has AOE capability. If you only have one point in it then slam pulls ahead. For one, you can get at least one point in it WAY earlier than you're going to unlock pull with traditional build priority. Following that it's instacast which is always nice. When it comes to other CC and debuffs or whatever there are people out there who have their reasons for not using the three majors of stasis, energy drain, and reave. And once you eliminate those well frankly there's not much left.

I used to knock slam or warp bombs but after watching some other videos that 1.5 second lift time is a LOT longer than I originally thought it was.

[SentinelBorg]

I also use Slam on my Vanguard on Insanity. It works great: Charge -> kill one -> strip defenses of second -> Slam -> Warp -> repeat



And as we are talking about Slam and Throw, does anyone know whether Biotic Damage has any effect on this powers?

[Kronner]

I like Slam better than Pull, Pull is not instacast unless used by squadmate. Slam is instant. Pull is better against unshielded husks, but I prefer to just shoot them anyways.

[JaegerBane]

SentinelBorg wrote...

I also use Slam on my Vanguard on Insanity. It works great: Charge -> kill one -> strip defenses of second -> Slam -> Warp -> repeat

And as we are talking about Slam and Throw, does anyone know whether Biotic Damage has any effect on this powers?

Allegedly, they beef up the force exerted by physics-based biotic powers. I have heard people test this can say it does - but I've yet to test it, or see a video demonstrating it.

[SmokeyNinjas]

jwalker wrote...

I may be wrong, but I have the impression your squaddies really like shooting flying foes. I noticed this when trying to set up a warp explosion. Sometimes, as soon as the guy starts floating, also starts to freeze. No bomb. I'm using inferno, so those are my buddies messing up my kill, even when there are plenty of other targets to shoot at.

I had the same problem when playing my insanity adept because i dont like to micro manage my squad i would have to set up my own warp explosion but my squaddies would keep killing the guy before i could detonate him which was proper
annoying<_<.

In the end i just used gibbeds to removed the dam squaddies altogether & found that solo adept was a hell of a lot more fun to play:wub:.

Modifié par SmokeyNinjas, 24 septembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[sinosleep]

jwalker wrote...

That's the build I use. I always put 1 rank in pull. Not only for warp explosions. Sometimes the guy is to far for your shotty to be effective ( I don't like charging against an unprotected target unless I'm sure the charge alone will kill him). When he's floating, is an easy kill.
I may be wrong, but I have the impression your squaddies really like shooting flying foes. I noticed this when trying to set up a warp explosion. Sometimes, as soon as the guy starts floating, also starts to freeze. No bomb. I'm using inferno, so those are my buddies messing up my kill, even when there are plenty of other targets to shoot at

It would be bad AI if they didn't. Ragdolled enemies are the weakest on the battlefield, focus firing on them to get them out of the way is a sound tactic. 

[RGFrog]

sinosleep wrote...
I agree that pull field is better than slam (I even made a vid about it) , but if you aren't going to max it to pull field because you want to keep cryo and inferno ammo then slam is the better choice. The advantage of pull vs slam is largely that it has AOE capability. If you only have one point in it then slam pulls ahead. For one, you can get at least one point in it WAY earlier than you're going to unlock pull with traditional build priority. Following that it's instacast which is always nice. When it comes to other CC and debuffs or whatever there are people out there who have their reasons for not using the three majors of stasis, energy drain, and reave. And once you eliminate those well frankly there's not much left.

I used to knock slam or warp bombs but after watching some other videos that 1.5 second lift time is a LOT longer than I originally thought it was.

Well, you'll have to link to a vid that shows someone using their own warp to initiate the bomb. Then i MIGHT find it useful. Again, you can use Miri or Thane to do the warp, but if there's a way to make them cast every time when I tell them to, I haven't found it yet.

The only useful thing about slam, to me, is cripple. Sure, it may be an insta-cast, but at 1 point pull vs. 1 point slam, there's just no contest. I can pull left, right, forward, up, and down (if I cast another pull).f Neither does anything until protection is gone. And the miniscule damage slam does at 1 point is less than what i can do to ragdolls from pull.

Yes, you can get that one point in right away since it is a bonus power. But, I'd rather get ED/Reave/AP ammo as they have far more use at that point in the game than slam.

Perhaps my outlook on slam is biased as I just can't find a good use for it. I don't really use stasis but for one level, either. And that's pretty much lost it's novelty and is back in the pile of unused skills, like fort. or gsb, and barrier.

Are you taking Miri and Jacob early on? player slam, miri warp, jacob pull, player warp - rinse repeat? That might be useful if it weren't for all the armor and shields around... would work on vet and below.

[sinosleep]

Why does it have to be their own warp? That's what you have team mates for. I already linked to a vid showing a vanguard using his squad to warp on slam on a regular basis. It's not that hard.

[TheBestClass]

I've never had a problem with setting up warp bombs using Slam. Unless Thane or Miranda happen to be reloading or jumping over something the instant I need them.