112 réponses à ce sujet

[Whatever42]

If you watch the battle of the citadel cut scene, it really looked like ships packed a lot more offense than defense. Some big alliance ships went up with a single hit.



Now fire power on that magnitude on a ship as maneuverable as the Normandy would be pretty fearsome.

[Monochrome Wench]

SR-2 didn't need them, but better guns are better.

[Phategod1]

 The Definition of Rival is To attempt to equal or surpass. The Thanix Cannon surpasses an Asari Dreadnought. 

[wulf3n]

Phategod1 wrote...
The Thanix Cannon surpasses an Asari Dreadnought. 

Incorrect, being a rival to the 2nd best, does not make you surpass the best.
The thanix cannon rivals a cruisers firepower, not a dreadnought. so while the thannix "may" surpass a cruisers firepower, it cannot match a dreadnought.

Also there's been some miscommunication by me. I've stated that the SR2 cannot enter a planets atmosphere, when what i meant to say is that it cannot land on anything but low gravity planets. Which is the same as a cruiser.
While the SR2 "may" not be equivalent to an Alliance cruiser in size, it is my opinion that it can no longer be designated a frigate.

[Zero_00]

The SR-2 was built to be just as good as the SR-1 therefore it still has the same speed and stealth functions only larger. The weapons system was pretty much the same as well if you talk with the crew but after upgrades I'd say the SR-2 is probably the most advanced ship in the galaxy.



Remember with the thanix it took out the big collector ship easily combining that kind of firepower with the Normandys speed and stealth is devastating.

[TuringPoint]

The SR2 enters the upper atmosphere of most planets, similarly to SR1.



You also ignore that everyone is pointing out that it was never said the SR2 couldn't land on a planet. The Asari world of Illium does not classify as low gravity. In fact, at 1.2g, it has slightly more gravity than standard, more than Earth's gravity (Earth's gravity is 1g). That classifies as medium gravity.



Also, the Collector Ship is classified in game as Cruiser weight. Do you remember how big it was? It hardly confuses the issue of what a Cruiser is and what a Frigate is by size alone.



However, someone said something about frigates not having GARDIAN Lasers? That is patently false.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Tell me, when does a ship NOT need more firepower?

If anybody asked this question to Shepard he would ****-slap them.

[wulf3n]

Alocormin wrote...
The Asari world of Illium does not classify as low gravity. In fact, at 1.2g, it has slightly more gravity than standard, more than Earth's gravity (Earth's gravity is 1g). That classifies as medium gravity.

Thats not really landing, it's docking. The SR2 never lands on a planet to my knowledge, unlike the SR1.
http://masseffect.wi...i/Normandy_SR-2

ReconTeam wrote...

Tell me, when does a ship NOT need more firepower?
If anybody asked this question to Shepard he would ****-slap them.

what im arguing is that its not "more" just different, according to the information i've seen.

Modifié par wulf3n, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:28 .

[Christmas Ape]

Because every space opera hero needs a spaceship that punches way above its weight class.

[wulf3n]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Because every space opera hero needs a spaceship that punches way above its weight class.

But Shepard already had that in the form of the SR2, it had the Armour and similar Armament of an Alliance cruiser, with maneuverability  similar to a frigate, and the stealth of the SR1. yet for unknown reasons, we must upgrade to a weapon of similar capability or someone will die?

Modifié par wulf3n, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[GnusmasTHX]

wulf3n wrote...

Alocormin wrote...
The Asari world of Illium does not classify as low gravity. In fact, at 1.2g, it has slightly more gravity than standard, more than Earth's gravity (Earth's gravity is 1g). That classifies as medium gravity.

Thats not really landing, it's docking. The SR2 never lands on a planet to my knowledge, unlike the SR1.
http://masseffect.wi...i/Normandy_SR-2

ReconTeam wrote...

Tell me, when does a ship NOT need more firepower?
If anybody asked this question to Shepard he would ****-slap them.

what im arguing is that its not "more" just different, according to the information i've seen.

It lands. Notice how when you click the planet, it says "Land" on the UI.
And there's hardly a difference. Unless you're telling me the gravity is different at the landing zone from the actual ground. If it's capable of what it does in the Illium landing cutscene, then it's certainly capable of touching the ground.

The SR2 is a frigate, only slightly larger. Not larger enough to be called a Cruiser. Nowhere does it say it has the armor or weapons of a Cruiser, at least not before upgrades.

The main weapon of Cruisers and Dreadnoughts are giant mass accelerators mounted in the length of the ship. Not the Javelin launchers. Whatever you've read  is blatantly incorrect for you to think that the SR2 (before upgrades) had armament even remotely equaling that of a cruiser.

Armor wise, Cruisers have thicker and more of everything a frigate would have.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[wulf3n]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

It lands. Notice how when you click the planet, it says "Land" on the UI.
And there's hardly a difference. Unless you're telling me the gravity is different at the landing zone from the actual ground.

Considering an entire ship is held by a few small "clamps" then yes, i think its safe to assume mass effect technology is used to decrease the weight of ships at docking stations.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
The Thanix cannons are superior to the javelin launchers on the SR2.

agreed

GnusmasTHX wrote...
Cruisers are armed with actual mass accelerator cannons that go along the length of the ship. The SR2 does not have this by default, thus the necessity for the Thanix cannons.

edit:<so do frigates.> Admittedly the length of the ship has an effect on the power of the mass accelerator cannons, but considering there is no information on the length of either the normandy or cruisers in general, actual power is purely speculation.

Modifié par wulf3n, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:15 .

[GnusmasTHX]

wulf3n wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

It lands. Notice how when you click the planet, it says "Land" on the UI.
And there's hardly a difference. Unless you're telling me the gravity is different at the landing zone from the actual ground.

Considering an entire ship is held by a few small "clamps" then yes, i think its safe to assume mass effect technology is used to decrease the weight of ships at docking stations.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
The Thanix cannons are superior to the javelin launchers on the SR2.

agreed

GnusmasTHX wrote...
Cruisers are armed with actual mass accelerator cannons that go along the length of the ship. The SR2 does not have this by default, thus the necessity for the Thanix cannons.

Yes it does, and so do frigates. Admittedly the length of the ship has an effect on the power of the mass accelerator cannons, but considering there is no information on the length of either the normandy or cruisers in general, actual power is purely speculation.

No. The clamps are used AFTER you get there. Are you saying that if the SR2 flew down to the surface of the planet, it couldn't touch it? Even though it was perfectly fine flying TO the clamps?

Geeze, you gave the wiki link yourself, does it list anywhere under armaments a Mass Accelerator Cannon? No.

And there is an indication of length. Picture comparison should suffice that Cruisers are in a size and tonnage of their own in comparison to the SR2.

Even if the SR2 did have a MAC, it'd be completely inferior to one with the length of a Cruiser. If you want a size reference watch the ME1 cutscenes at the end, those were Cruisers, except the Destiny Ascension and Sovereign (Dreadnoughts) and the Normandy and some geth dropships (frigates). If the Thanix had the power of those guns on a tiny frigate, even if the SR2 had a MAC to begin with, the Thanix would be vastly superior. As it stands, the SR2 didn't.

More so, if you agree that the Thanix cannon is superior, this discussion is over, regardless of what misconceptions you have of frigates, the SR2  and cruisers and their armament.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:40 .

[Shadowomega23]

The SR2 is around what would be called an Assault Frigate, the SR 1 was a Recon or Light frigate, though I think the SR 1 should have been class Corvette as it was small and very agile with light weapons. The collector ship however I think it was miss classified as a cruiser due to weight, its size would put it in the Heavy Cruiser or even Dreadnaught class but with all the open space its tonnage is lower putting it in what would be Cruiser weight. Its firepower though even though forward facing only would likely put it in the Destroyer class.

[Aedan_Cousland]

The Normandy is a Heavy Frigate at best. Besides the fact that it's comparitvely small size and crew compliment marks it as a frigate, humans have naming conventions for military grade vessels. Frigates, like the Normandy, are named after famous battles in human history. Cruisers on the other hand are named after cities on Earth. If the Normandy SR2 were in fact a Cruiser, it wouldn't be called the Normandy. It would be called the  Canberra or the Madrid, or something similar.

[lovgreno]

Because Garrus said so.

[GnusmasTHX]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

The Normandy is a Heavy Frigate at best. Besides the fact that it's comparitvely small size and crew compliment marks it as a frigate, humans have naming conventions for military grade vessels. Frigates, like the Normandy, are named after famous battles in human history. Cruisers on the other hand are named after cities on Earth. If the Normandy SR2 were in fact a Cruiser, it wouldn't be called the Normandy. It would be called the  Canberra or the Madrid, or something similar.

The SR2 is a Ceberus vessel, not Alliance. Those conventions don't apply. In the end Shepard just named it after his old ship.

[wulf3n]

GnusmasTHX wrote...
No. The clamps are used AFTER you get there. Are you saying that if the SR2 flew down to the surface of the planet, it couldn't touch it? Even though it was perfectly fine flying TO the clamps?

The wiki says the SR2 can't land not me. I'm merely saying i've never seen it "land" and yes, having to actually stop and touch down on planet, is a lot harder than flying into a docking bay, with supplementary  mass accelerator.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
No, Look at it. It doesn't have one. You can tell just from the shape of it, and the blatant lack of "gun portholes" at the end of  SR2, the tip of which  house the cockpit. Explain as well why the SR2 didn't use these magical invisible Mass Accelerator's during the fight with the Collector  Cruiser if you don't upgrade? It doesn't. It sticks to using the Javelin's, because those are its main armament without the Thanix upgrade.

The SR1 certainly does http://masseffect.wi...ki/SSV_Normandy read under tech. While the SR2 has no mention, it seems completely stupid to build a ship bigger than a frigate with less firepower.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
Geeze, you gave the wiki link yourself, does it list anywhere under armaments a Mass Accelerator Cannon? No.

Seems like you're the one not reading the wiki.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
And there is an indication of length. Picture comparison should suffice that Cruisers are in a size and tonnage of their own in comparison to the SR2.

You've seen a picture that compares the SR2 and an Alliance Frigate? i'd be happy to see it. If you're talking about the skewed perspective shots from ME1 then you really have no basis for an argument.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
More so, if you agree that the Thanix cannon is superior, this discussion is over, regardless of what misconceptions you have of frigates, the SR2  and cruisers and their armament.

I agree that the Thanix is superior to the javelin, not the standard armament of even a frigate.

Modifié par wulf3n, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[Zzzlurp]

i was watching a bad ending video of mass effect 2 (everyone dies) on youtube and there the normandy killed the collector ship even with its standard weaponry. so i guess the thannix cannons are nice but not that overpowered as described. i doubt the sr-2 gets near the punchability of a cruiser with them.

if the thannixes were equivalent to cruiser mass accelerators, where do they get their energy from? i am pretty sure cruisers have much bigger reactors to power all their weaponry. the normandy simply lacks of space for those. and its 'superior' reactor is stressed by the cloaking, the shields and the drive in great deals during the battle at the collector base. so i doubt there is much capacity left for such a heavy weapon as described.

[wulf3n]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...
 Frigates, like the Normandy, are named after famous battles in human history. Cruisers on the other hand are named after cities on Earth. If the Normandy SR2 were in fact a Cruiser, it wouldn't be called the Normandy. It would be called the  Canberra or the Madrid, or something similar.

Normandy applies to both naming conventions, so it could still be either.

[Burdokva]

You know, reading this topic just made me realize something - there aren't any destroyers/escorts in the Mass Effect universe. Or at least none that we have seen before. Nor are there any corvettes, which undoubtedly would be the most common type of vessels in the mercenary fleets.



So, instead of trying to apply some weird hybrid term to the SR-2 we can either accept that:



A. SR-1 was a primarily reconnaissance frigate with basic combat capability and a primary job of screening a battle group/deep space operation, while the SR-2 is a standard grade military frigate, usually in the picket line of a battle group, only carrying far more sophisticated electronic suites, weapons and engines that are far too expensive to deploy in scale on an entire frigate line;



or



B. The SR-2 is a destroyer class vessel optimized for atmospheric entry, with the maneuverability, fuel and crew requirements of a frigate. Thus once upgraded wee have a destroyer with cruiser-grade cannons and armor.



B. certainly makes a lot more sence to me, honestly.

[GnusmasTHX]

I was mistaken about the SR1.

The wiki says the SR2 can land. The ship flies to the docking bay, it's not assisted by some gravity beam on the way there. If it can fly to the bay it can land on the surface. Gravity isn't different at the top of the building from the bottom.

The wiki doesn't just not mention a MAC, it doesn't list it. As in it doesn't have one. I don't care why, it just doesn't. In fact it goes out of its way to indicate that the Javelin's are the initial armament of the SR2.

And seriously? You must have a problem with your eyes if you can't see that the Cruisers are clearly much larger than the Normandy.

Even if the SR2 did have a MAC, it'd be completely inferior to one with the length of a Cruiser. If you want a size reference watch the ME1 cutscenes at the end, those were Cruisers, except the Destiny Ascension and Sovereign (Dreadnoughts) and the Normandy and some geth dropships (frigates). If the Thanix had the power of those guns on a tiny frigate, even if the SR2 had a MAC to begin with, the Thanix would be vastly superior. As it stands, the SR2 didn't.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:47 .

[wulf3n]

GnusmasTHX wrote...
The wiki says the SR2 can land. The ship flies to the docking bay, it's not assisted by some gravity beam on the way there. If it can fly to the bay it can land on the surface. Gravity isn't different at the top of the building from the bottom.

http://masseffect.wi...i/Normandy_SR-2 1st paragraph.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
And seriously? You must have a problem with your eyes if you can't see that the Cruisers are clearly much larger than the Normandy.

You've already  made the wrong assumptions based upon your perceptions from ME1. Just because they look bigger doesn't mean they are bigger. I've seen shots that show both sides of the scale.

[Shadowomega23]

The Main gun before the upgrade is effectively a MAC, the animators never put it to use. Also the Javelins are supposed to be better. In the battle with the collector ship the SR2 fires Javelins if you don't upgrade the main gun, however the animators make the Javelins fire as if they where Light MAC weapons, strait and just about instant hit. Warning Spoiler, and alot of Characters die in this video I found.

[GnusmasTHX]

wulf3n wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...
The wiki says the SR2 can land. The ship flies to the docking bay, it's not assisted by some gravity beam on the way there. If it can fly to the bay it can land on the surface. Gravity isn't different at the top of the building from the bottom.

http://masseffect.wi...i/Normandy_SR-2 1st paragraph.

GnusmasTHX wrote...
And seriously? You must have a problem with your eyes if you can't see that the Cruisers are clearly much larger than the Normandy.

You've already  made the wrong assumptions based upon your perceptions from ME1. Just because they look bigger doesn't mean they are bigger. I've seen shots that show both sides of the scale.

You mean this:  " SR-2 cannot land on every planet". Yeah. It can land. Or is Illium's name in asari "every planet"?

And seriously? Are you saying that something in the background that appears significantly larger is actually smaller or the same size as something in the foreground? Admittedly I never watched that cutscene while snorting cocaine.

I'd like to see these shots by the way, because I can guarantee you neither the SR1 or SR2 are even remotely comparable in size to a cruiser. You must have serious perception issues.