112 réponses à ce sujet

[adam_grif]

Shadowomega23 wrote...

Actually Direct fire weapons are on the return thanks to GPS guided shells, and also with the tests of the Rail Gun. The current Rail gun fires a 5 to 6 inch solid mass shell, but I can't even guess at what the projectile speed is.

Neither GPS guided shells or railguns are "direct fire weapons" in normal usage; their primary advantage is that they can hit things over obstacles or over the horizon.

[Moiaussi]

adam_grif wrote...

Neither GPS guided shells or railguns are "direct fire weapons" in normal usage; their primary advantage is that they can hit things over obstacles or over the horizon.

A rail gun is very much a direct fire weapon. If it is used indirect fire, it is in the same context as a howitzer, i.e. firing at a sufficiently large angle to arc.

GPS guided weapons, on the other hand, are not, pretty much by definition...

[Moiaussi]

brfritos wrote...

People are arguing about class ships, fighters, gravity and such, but the OP question still stands: why the SR-2 needs the Thanix cannons?

They clearly aren't needed to destroy the Collector Ship.

Hmm... Sovereign was defeated primarily by feedback from the destruction of mecha-Saren. The dead reaper husk, Geth base, and Collector base were destroyed by boarding actions.

I guess you are right! No ship mounted guns are needed at all! All future warships should be build without any weapons at all, since ship mounted weapons are not absolutely "needed."

Why is there any question about even the thought of upgunning any warship? The very question is inane. The only reason for not upgunning a warship is if the hull and/or power systems cannot handle the larger guns.

Seriously, why is this even in question?

[Shadowomega23]

Yes Grif but was refering to the face that their returning and are currently replacing certain missiles systems. Some missile systems have such a short range their used directly. Also current test of the Rail Gun system show that the round can reach out 250 NM and still have enough kinetic energy to kill its target.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Off topic I know but this is a nice overview of the Navy's railgun studies and testing.

http://www.navweaps....US_Rail_Gun.htm



Yeah the Thanix cannons weren't quite "needed" in that scenario but without them the ship does not have as much of an edge and sustains greater damage with somebody getting killed. The Normandy's drive core was designed to handle future upgrades anyway. Room for growth.

[Moiaussi]

Shadowomega23 wrote...

Yes Grif but was refering to the face that their returning and are currently replacing certain missiles systems. Some missile systems have such a short range their used directly. Also current test of the Rail Gun system show that the round can reach out 250 NM and still have enough kinetic energy to kill its target.

What is 'it's target' and what kind of projectile is it firing?

If you mean this weapon: http://www.navweaps....US_Rail_Gun.htm , note the projected 'in service' date of 2020. They are still a decade out, if they get it to work at all at the scale they are discussing.

Also, that is the same tech as the ME main guns, except much much shorter range. Also they would have to predict the course of the target within a 6 or 7 minute window at maximim range. Good for static or slow targets, but problematic for faster mobile ones.

[adam_grif]

Moiaussi wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Neither GPS guided shells or railguns are "direct fire weapons" in normal usage; their primary advantage is that they can hit things over obstacles or over the horizon.

A rail gun is very much a direct fire weapon. If it is used indirect fire, it is in the same context as a howitzer, i.e. firing at a sufficiently large angle to arc.

GPS guided weapons, on the other hand, are not, pretty much by definition...

Yes, railguns can be aimed at people just like all guns can, but the one the Navy is investing in is very much an NLOS weapon. Howitzers are considered indirect fire weapons in the same spirit for largely the same reason, although as you say in both cases they are technically capable of being used as direct fire weapons.

A better distinction for the original person I was respond to than Direct Fire / Indirect Fire would be Guided vs Unguided projectiles. Normal railgun rounds and most artillery rounds are unguided, incapable of altering trajectory or changing course once fired.

Modifié par adam_grif, 23 septembre 2010 - 08:42 .

[mortons4ck]

wulf3n wrote...

 I have been reading up on the codex entries about the thanix cannons, due to a recent discussion, and somethings don't make sense.

The codex entry about the thanix cannons states "rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate" now that's an impressive piece of new technology i admit, and could prove invaluable in a battle against the reapers, but the part that concerns me is "rivaling a cruiser's firepower" which to me means that a standard cruisers firepower is approximately equal.

Now even though i've yet to find any written classification of the Normandy SR-2, the available evidence points to it being a cruiser.

So i ask. Why do we need the thanix cannons?

I assume you're asking why Thanix cannons and not typical cruiser armament?

Let's assume for the purposes of this argument that the SR-2 is in fact a cruiser.

If Thanix cannons mountable on a frigate, it probably means they're more compact and/or more energy efficient than standard cruiser armaments (if more expensive). So less space on ship for the armaments means more space for something else (with out sacrificing fire power).  Less power draw than typical cruiser armaments means more energy can be directed towards other systems, lets say the shields. Furthermore, Cerberus also has money to throw around, so cost shouldn't be an issue, even if standard cruiser armaments are more cost effective.

Modifié par mortons4ck, 23 septembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[Trolp]

Sovereign's Main Gun Can Eliminate a Dreadnaught's Shields in one Shot , So why not Grab a Weapon that is a Spinof of Sovereign's Main gun?



Sure , SR2's Javelin Can Take out that Collector Ship , But Do you Prefer Shooting Someone off his pitiful Existance From Seven Miles away , Or Running in Close Trying to Kill the Guy with 9mm's?

[Moiaussi]

adam_grif wrote...

Yes, railguns can be aimed at people just like all guns can, but the one the Navy is investing in is very much an NLOS weapon. Howitzers are considered indirect fire weapons in the same spirit for largely the same reason, although as you say in both cases they are technically capable of being used as direct fire weapons.

A better distinction for the original person I was respond to than Direct Fire / Indirect Fire would be Guided vs Unguided projectiles. Normal railgun rounds and most artillery rounds are unguided, incapable of altering trajectory or changing course once fired.

It is NLOS only because its range is greater than the range to the horizon It is planned to have a traverse of +70 to -5 degrees though. Not sure how it would fire NLOS at -5 degrees.

[Moiaussi]

mortons4ck wrote...

I assume you're asking why Thanix cannons and not typical cruiser armament?

Let's assume for the purposes of this argument that the SR-2 is in fact a cruiser.

If Thanix cannons mountable on a frigate, it probably means they're more compact and/or more energy efficient than standard cruiser armaments (if more expensive). So less space on ship for the armaments means more space for something else (with out sacrificing fire power).  Less power draw than typical cruiser armaments means more energy can be directed towards other systems, lets say the shields. Furthermore, Cerberus also has money to throw around, so cost shouldn't be an issue, even if standard cruiser armaments are more cost effective.

Since when does size class have anything to do with armament? Cruisers will be refitted with larger versions, which means that while the Normandy has the firepower of a contemporary cruiser, it does not have the firepower of a near-future cruiser armed with comperable weapons tech.

That will not change hull sizes at all any more than better tank guns changed the size of tanks. The thanix being an energy weapon, though, it is probably a medium to close range weapon, meaning dreadnaughts still have a purpose.

[alkapowow]

Using my amazing power of "youtubing" i conclude that the collector ship is of cruiser size but its arnament is unknown.

Considering its a cross between a warship and a transport/cargo ship with a lot of wasted internal space, its probably undergunned when compared to a true cruiser.

The first link shows that Normandy SR1 crew assumes that the collector ship is a cruiser probably due to its size.





However if you compare size of the SR2 to the collector ship, it is a lot smaller and so it is likely a frigate.





On the other hand, these assumptions are made from the cutscenes which arent the most accurate so i might just be BSing here.

[Shadowomega23]

This video shows the prototype Rail gun firing, along with all the major components behind it. The Second Video is a slowed down shot of the round moving though the air at such a high speed that the air and round are reaching Ignition temperatures from friction alone.

Modifié par Shadowomega23, 23 septembre 2010 - 08:35 .