62 réponses à ce sujet

[0mar]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Stephen226 wrote...

doesn't it say that "50,000 years ago the protheans vanished", it is rather unclear, how long between the cycles, it could have taken the protheans 500,000 years to advance into a galaxy wide species, its how you interpret the words

Only if you completely disregard all the other evidence on the fact that the extinction happens every 50.000 like Liara's findings and such..

Minor nitpick:  A reaper phones home every 50k years, but doesn't necessarily initiate genocide every 50,000 years.  There probably have been many times when there were no major space-faring species in a given timespan.  The reaper would probably phone home, update the situation and wait for further orders.

As for how many reapers are made, we have no real gauge to this question.  It appears that several million to several billion humans were needed for a single reaper.  As others have said, this could mean only one or two  reapers can be made this cycle, possibly less if it involves maintenance of other reapers.  I imagine during a particularly robust cycle, several thousand reapers could be made, if a population of trillions were harvested.  I bet billions, if not trillions, of Protheans were subjected to the the reaperification process before they gave up on trying to convert them into reapers.

[bottledwater]

they weren't building a reaper in ME1. after humans blew up sovereign, the reapers were like "well, who is *this* race?" and started to build a reaper because they "liked" humans.



remember, no abductions in ME1. they only started building the reaper after the events of ME1 (by which point it was too late for sovereign to promise anything to anyone, seeing as how he was dead).

[thepiebaker]

here's my answer







like they said there were hundreds of thousands of people abducted for the production of the reaper larva. which i can tell was also about 1/10th the size of sovereign at largest. so first we need to determine the average size of the species being used and the average size of a reaper. with that the average population needed to make a reaper of average size. then we also need to figure out how grand the population of those species were across the entire galaxy. take out those that would have died from fighting the reaper invasion and the indoctrinated slaves. and take out any used to make husks and those used for reaper experimentation.



i also have a theory that the mass relay out in darkspace connects to citadel like relays from not just the milkyway but a handful of other galaxys out there for the reapers to invade while they wait for life to return to the galaxys they just finished reaping

[Anacronian Stryx]

bottledwater wrote...

they weren't building a reaper in ME1. after humans blew up sovereign, the reapers were like "well, who is *this* race?" and started to build a reaper because they "liked" humans.

remember, no abductions in ME1. they only started building the reaper after the events of ME1 (by which point it was too late for sovereign to promise anything to anyone, seeing as how he was dead).

20 years ago.

Sovereign : "Soo chaps do we have a deal, as soon as we find a race suitable for processing we start construction on "your" reaper..muhahahahaha!!"

Heretic Geth :" Affirmative"

Sovereign : "And in return you'll render aid when the time comes and I'll need it...muhahahahahaa!"

Heretic Geth : "Affirmative"

Sovereign : "Lets shake on it.. put it there pal".

They first have to find a race to build the Reaper from...enter collectors coming and going all over the universe exchanging exorbitant gifts for samples of different races - becoming the legends they were..

[StarcloudSWG]

There's only one Reaper per race; anything else would defeat the point of the imposed 'unity' Reapers apparently experience within their own shells.

The number of Reapers made would be variable, depending on the number of "worthy" i.e. genetically adaptable and technologically/socially advanced races around when it comes time to 'reap'.

[Anacronian Stryx]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

There's only one Reaper per race; anything else would defeat the point of the imposed 'unity' Reapers apparently experience within their own shells.

How would making more Reapers from a single race impose on the experienced "unity" of an individual Reaper?

[Uber Rod]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

StarcloudSWG wrote...

There's only one Reaper per race; anything else would defeat the point of the imposed 'unity' Reapers apparently experience within their own shells.

How would making more Reapers from a single race impose on the experienced "unity" of an individual Reaper?

The race would be united within a single Reaper.

Each Reaper is a nation, independent.

Thus each race chosen to be "ascended" makes only one Reaper.

[MrFob]

I didn't get the impression that every new cycle, they build a new reaper. There is no evidence to the contrary, though,so it might well be possible. That might be the reason for there invasion, to scan for a species worthy of "ascension", a way to contribute to their own evolution. On the other hand, they might just harvest for fuel, sustenance.



However, I got the following impression: Shepard destroyed Souvereign in ME1. That was the reaper, left behind to get the citadel online and open the way back for the whole bunch, trapped in dark space. Plan was screwed, so they need a new one. Harbinger still had mind control over the harvested protheans (say collectors). It was their backup plan. Seeing that humanity proved to be a very capable enemy, they decided to make a new reaper out of humanity, that would take over for Sovereign and start the next attempt to activate the citadel relay.



However, the fact that the collectors were already collecting unusual genetic specimens before the events in ME1 hints at the fact, that the reapers were already scouting out other races, most likely to determine if one would be suitable for transformation into a new reaper.



I am not sure what to believe as far as every cycle goes but I am pretty sure that the creation fo the human reaper in ME2 was a rather desperate act (exposing the collector asset to considerable risk), triggered by Sovereigns failure and destruction in ME1.

[StarcloudSWG]

The Reapers were already in the process of figuring out which races were capable of being made into Reapers; look at the references to the Collectors' activities, in game, which clearly indicate that they'd been taking gene samples for a long time before Sovereign launched its attack on the Citadel.



I'd agree that rushing the creation of a "Human Reaper" was a bit of a long shot attempt at achieving their goals without a direct confrontation.

[Zulu_DFA]

MrFob wrote...

I didn't get the impression that every new cycle, they build a new reaper. There is no evidence to the contrary, though,so it might well be possible. That might be the reason for there invasion, to scan for a species worthy of "ascension", a way to contribute to their own evolution. On the other hand, they might just harvest for fuel, sustenance.

However, I got the following impression: Shepard destroyed Souvereign in ME1. That was the reaper, left behind to get the citadel online and open the way back for the whole bunch, trapped in dark space. Plan was screwed, so they need a new one. Harbinger still had mind control over the harvested protheans (say collectors). It was their backup plan. Seeing that humanity proved to be a very capable enemy, they decided to make a new reaper out of humanity, that would take over for Sovereign and start the next attempt to activate the citadel relay.

However, the fact that the collectors were already collecting unusual genetic specimens before the events in ME1 hints at the fact, that the reapers were already scouting out other races, most likely to determine if one would be suitable for transformation into a new reaper.

I am not sure what to believe as far as every cycle goes but I am pretty sure that the creation fo the human reaper in ME2 was a rather desperate act (exposing the collector asset to considerable risk), triggered by Sovereigns failure and destruction in ME1.

Again, if they were making new Reapers every cycle, there would be some day too many of them to be sustained on the one and the same galaxy, their "farm". And, besides, Sovereign used to claim, that they "have no beginning", suggesting that they were quite old and probably their beginning was of no relevance, should they even had one. So even the Human-Reaper comes across as something odd. Admittedly, there must be something really extra-super-cool about the Humans, which makes them worthy of making an exceptional.

And the Reapers don't evolve. They are the pinnacle of evolution, "free of all weakness", meaning that they understand the universe fully and don't have to adapt (in other words, overcome own weakness) to anything, ...or so they think, anyway.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 septembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[MrFob]

Yeah, you'll excuse me if I don't take everything, Sovereign says literally or for granted. To me, most of that dialogue sounded like a propaganda speech. Psychological warfare to through organics off balance. Clearly they have a beginning (see human reaper), clearly they have an end (see Sovereign and derelict reaper) unless they are like BSGs cylons and download after death .

The death of Sovereign/ the derelict reaper suggests that they do die and therefore need to replenish their numbers eventually. Hence they build new ones. I agree that it's possibly not every cycle (I don't see a hint at a prothean reaper) but it makes sense that they would.

Oh and the pinnacle of evolution? Please! Being stuck in dark space in hibernation for 50.000 years is hardly the perfect way to live. They clearly have an agenda, one they seem to go to great effort in order to achieve. If they were perfect, they'd have no motivation to change anything. I can see how Sovereign meant it as them being at the pinnacle of evolution as far as it has progressed so far. That doesn't mean it wont go on. E.g. a lot of humans see themselves as being the pinnacle of evolution on earth. However, I doubt all of those would not acknowledge the fact that we as a species still have the capacity to evolve further. It doesn't just stop and I guess the reapers know that too.

[Addictress]

MrFob wrote...

Yeah, you'll excuse me if I don't take everything, Sovereign says literally or for granted. To me, most of that dialogue sounded like a propaganda speech. Psychological warfare to through organics off balance. Clearly they have a beginning (see human reaper), clearly they have an end (see Sovereign and derelict reaper) unless they are like BSGs cylons and download after death .<br />
The death of Sovereign/ the derelict reaper suggests that they do die and therefore need to replenish their numbers eventually. Hence they build new ones. I agree that it's possibly not every cycle (I don't see a hint at a prothean reaper) but it makes sense that they would.<br />
Oh and the pinnacle of evolution? Please! Being stuck in dark space in hibernation for 50.000 years is hardly the perfect way to live. They clearly have an agenda, one they seem to go to great effort in order to achieve. If they were perfect, they'd have no motivation to change anything. I can see how Sovereign meant it as them being at the pinnacle of evolution as far as it has progressed so far. That doesn't mean it wont go on. E.g. a lot of humans see themselves as being the pinnacle of evolution on earth. However, I doubt all of those would not acknowledge the fact that we as a species still have the capacity to evolve further. It doesn't just stop and I guess the reapers know that too.

Well it's hard to imagine that the most advanced, evolved civilizations of each cycle, although defeated, aren't able to knock out handfuls of reapers every cycle.  I'd say at least one reaper must die every cycle. Surely they have to replenish.

[MathiasShepard]

MrFob wrote...

I didn't get the impression that every new cycle, they build a new reaper. There is no evidence to the contrary, though,so it might well be possible. That might be the reason for there invasion, to scan for a species worthy of "ascension", a way to contribute to their own evolution. On the other hand, they might just harvest for fuel, sustenance.

You seemed to have missed a huge part of the plot... They explicitly say that it's at least one reaper per advanced civilization so thier race/history/culture can be perserved, safe from self-destruction.
Your "other-hand" isn't a contradicting statement, the Reapers main reason of harvest is for the ascension, but while they do that they may also need to harvest for fuel in order to continue this process for future generations.

When you say "On the other hand", it seems like your suggesting the only point of the reapers is to sustain themselves... which completely contradicts the entire 3rd game. 

Modifié par MathiasShepard, 06 février 2013 - 04:02 .