48 réponses à ce sujet

[Zan Mura]

I never much liked ME1's Insanity. It basically amounted to the enemy cheating with 10x hp and 10x damage, and that was it. There was nothing fun about it, so the challenge really never came into question. But I only recently started ME2 with Insanity, and the experience is beyond anything I could've believed.

At first it started with frustration to the enemies' extreme defenses and constant dying, but slowly I started doing something that I had never needed to do before. I would actually USE different weapons for different situations, actually use the heavy ammo and medi-gel as opposed to just taking the 100 creds from their boxes and never using them for anything at all. Actually bothering to aim for careful headshots as opposed to random spraying. And actually bind my teammate's powers to my own powerbar, turn off automatic power usage, manually decide which weapons they should be using, and provide them with waypoints and instructions during the battle.

There are layers upon layers in ME2 gameplay that never need to be learned or used in anything equaling or under Veteran/Hardcore difficulties. And despite the rather overtaken strength of the opponents in Insanity (Shepard can easily lose to a regular engineer in 1 on 1), the increased depth in the gameplay, once learned, makes the combat more fun than I could ever have imagined. I really hope in ME3 they can actually force the player to use these advanced gameplay options even in lesser difficulties, because they're wasted in ME2 unless you're going for Insanity.

In Veteran, regardless of your class, you can basically just stand and shoot and be no worse for wear. In Hardcore, the stronger classes can still do the same (Soldier / Vanguard). I had practically NEVER used manual waypointing or designed my team around a combination of taking down shield / armor, and very rarely ever manually made them used their powers, simply because there was never any need. Basic good FPS skills were enough.

What are your opinions?

[Kronner]

I'd add more enemy tech and biotic attacks. Singularity should work against the mechdogs. Unless BioWare greatly improves squad and enemy AI, I do not think much more can be done. I really enjoy Insanity in ME2 a lot, in ME1 it was just tedious.

[OniGanon]

I breezed through ME1's Insanity but preferred Hardcore so I started with Hardcore in ME2. Was a rude shock, but eventually I got used to it, liked the increased tactical demand, bumped it up to Insanity and never looked back.



I like being forced to think in a game. My favourite combat in any game is Dragon Age, as I've never before had to put so much thought into terrain, aggro management, crowd control, positioning, healing, target choice, focus fire, spell rotation...

[Zan Mura]

OniGanon wrote...

I breezed through ME1's Insanity but preferred Hardcore so I started with Hardcore in ME2. Was a rude shock, but eventually I got used to it, liked the increased tactical demand, bumped it up to Insanity and never looked back.

I like being forced to think in a game. My favourite combat in any game is Dragon Age, as I've never before had to put so much thought into terrain, aggro management, crowd control, positioning, healing, target choice, focus fire, spell rotation...

Then if you can stand for way outdated visuals in what is otherwise considered by many to be the best RPG ever created, go play BG2 + ToB (recommend BG1 to get on level with what's going on, but BG2 is aeons better as a game).
 I played DAO on the hardest difficulty since the first time I ever started due to wanting the full friendly fire etc, and it was a breeze compared to BG2, in both plain difficulty and actual tactical depth. And no, I didn't have several mages.

If you do, actually go play it, remember that there are numerous basically mandatory top-grade mods out there that add to enemy AI for instance. Since there's no real scaling either, you're fully welcome to challenging opponents and areas levels below the norm, making sure you're such an underdog you HAVE to be insanely good as a player to even come out alive.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[Nooneyouknow13]

The biggest change I'd like to see made to ME2's insanity( and I guess the game overall, but it only matters on insanity) is more player health and shield value, with slower and separate regen for both. Basically, less OHKOs to Shepard, but have the long term survivability lowered. As it is now, you deal with the enemies that approach, and you can't died unless you do something monumentally stupid. You were too tough in ME1 with the better armors, regardless of Immunity, but you're like a wet sheet of paper in ME2, with the catch that the only enemy types that are dangerous at all are things that actually approach, or can knock you out of cover. Which is a very small set of the enemies in the game.

Also, if you make Shepard tougher again, you can let enemies use Biotics other than Warp, and even let them use overload again.

Enemies should intelligently use all abilities available to the player, to force you to do the same. I have yet to actually have to manually position my squad at all, and I'd rather not have to the way it's done.  Having to manually use their skills on the proper targets is a good thing though.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[termokanden]

I thought ME2's insanity setting was well-made compared to other things I've seen. It was much, much better than the one in ME1 for reasons already stated above.



I think insanity in ME2 really just means knowing what abilities do and remembering to use the right ones and to aim for the head. It doesn't lead to endless frustration like certain battles in other games I've played. It's really a matter of using the right tactics, not having insane twitch aiming skills.

[OniGanon]

Zan Mura wrote...
 I played DAO on the hardest difficulty since the first time I ever started due to wanting the full friendly fire etc, and it was a breeze compared to BG2, in both plain difficulty and actual tactical depth. And no, I didn't have several mages.

Hmm, I'm guessing you're either talking about the ToB expansion or AI mods. I've played vanilla BG2 SoA (well not totally vanilla, but only non-gameplay mods like banter packs). It's by far one of my favourite RPGs ever, but only for the story, dialogue, writing, characters etc.

Strategy? My strategy for that whole game was basically 'throw Minsc at the problem, repeat as necessary,' supported by 'heal Minsc.' The only really challenging fights from it that I remember were some.... Illithids in a sewer I think? And some... fairy archer things... They were a nightmare because they turned Minsc against me and he would singlehandedly violate my entire party.

Sadly, resolution problems stop me from playing it now.

[curly haired boy]

I just want them to fix medigel, which is rather useless for your teammates. 99% of the time when your squad goes down, reviving them does no good. they die again while simply rising to their feet.

waste of a cooldown unless it's fixed.

i just played horizon on my insanity engineer. drone spam kept me personally safe, but my squad died in seconds. i wish they were more durable on insanity, or at least against collectors.

[sinosleep]

The durability of your squad depends largely on how much of the front line you occupy yourself and how much you personally take control of placing them. Soldiers, vanguards, and assault sentinels have an easier time keeping squadmates alive without micromanaging them simply by virtue of taking most of the gun fire themselves. Adepts, engineers, and caster sentinels have to do a lot more micromanaging to keep their squads alive since they're in the back while their squad is getting shot at.

[curly haired boy]

that's true, i suppose. i know my vanguard/sentinel insanity playthroughs didn't have my squad in trouble at all.



medigel still needs to be fixed, though, if only to support the caster classes.

[khevan]

After a couple of insanity runthroughs with my infiltrator, and a few hardcore runs with various other classes, I think I've got enough experience on the tougher difficulties to offer my opinion on this thread.



I really like the way that defenses force you to change how you play. I like how tactical you have to play to get the most out of your squadmates, the combined powers of your squad, the weapons you use, etc. I love the feeling of satisfaction I get when I manage a perfect flanking maneuver that leaves the enemy exposed to fire from my entire squad.



But overall, the thing I like the most is Shepard's fragility on insanity (unless you're a Sentinel. That's almost cheating). It changes Shepard from this ungodly, immortal SOLDIER OF DHOOM!!!!!one!1!!11eleven! into a normal soldier (albeit an elite normal soldier) thrust into events larger than he could ever imagine, into challenges that no one could survive...and then he does anyway. Heroism, to me, isn't being so powerful no one can challenge you, it's being scared, it's knowing that the next time someone shoots at you, you could die, but going out there and doing the job anyway. Insanity makes it feel that way for Shepard, at least to me. The lower difficulties are just too easy now.

[swk3000]

I'm not very fond of ME2's Insanity mode. It basically forces a certain style of play on you (defense stripping), and renders anyone without the ability to strip at least one defense largely useless. Biotics basically get neutered because they don't work on protection, and if an enemy doesn't have protection, a few bullets will kill them anyway. Part of the fun of a game is finding your own style of play. In ME2, you could love Shockwave to death, and chuckle gleefully as you launch a Shockwave with the intention of sending enemies flying...then you remember you're playing on Insanity, and the entire strategy only buys you a couple of seconds before the hail of fire that was coming your way before is coming your way again.

[sinosleep]

That's a common misconception swk3000, it will actually take MORE shots as opposed to less to strip health than it does defenses unless it's enemies with more than one type of defense. Enemies generally have 1:1 health to defense, many like klixen, krogan, and verran acually have more health than defense. Not only that, but every weapon in the game has a defense modifier while no weapon in the game has a health modifier. Enemies once stripped of defenses don't simply fall to the ground and die when every stat in the game says otherwise. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 septembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[ryoldschool]

I think the game designers made good choices with Insanity. Its still a challenge after all these months, and what Khevan said "But overall, the thing I like the most is Shepard's fragility on insanity " - is that if you get cocky you will die in a hurry. It forces you to use your head and resources - honestly did not believe you could past the collector ship trap on insanity ( after getting fried there in a hardcore playthrough ). The game makes you work, but its not tedious. I hope they make changes, but nothing drastic.

[swk3000]

sinosleep wrote...

That's a common misconception swk3000, it will actually take MORE shots as opposed to less to strip health than it does defenses unless it's enemies with more than one type of defense. Enemies generally have 1:1 health to defense, many like klixen, krogan, and verran acually have more health than defense. Not only that, but every weapon in the game has a defense modifier while no weapon in the game has a health modifier. Enemies once stripped of defenses don't simply fall to the ground and die when every stat in the game says otherwise. 

I said it like I did to illustrate the principle, not because I actually think that's how it works.

[sinosleep]

swk3000 wrote...

I said it like I did to illustrate the principle, not because I actually think that's how it works.

You're illustrating a principle that doesn't exist.

[termokanden]

Enemies without defenses are basically dead, but that's because of those useless-looking skills that don't work through defenses. That's why biotics aren't horrible I think.



I had to try a Warp bombing adept to see this for myself. Biotics are still useful, even on insanity.

[PsyrenY]

sinosleep wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

I said it like I did to illustrate the principle, not because I actually think that's how it works.

You're illustrating a principle that doesn't exist.

This. With just the pistol/SMG (i.e. the default for all casters), even after you get enemies down to health, you are strongly encouraged to either ragdoll, freeze or panic them; otherwise it will take so long to whittle them down with those light weapons that you'll be a sitting duck, either for peripheral enemies or even your own target itself.

It is only after the Colletor Ship, when these classes can pick up some additional firepower, that powers become unnecessary on health; and even then you will still meed powers when your enemies are at a suboptimal range. (e.g. far away when you picked Shotgun.)

As for biotics on Insanity, Throw staggers protected mooks and (Heavy) Singularity freezes them. Singularity even freezes Scions, and they always have protection. I fail to see the issue.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[RGFrog]

I would like to have seen Insanity the way it is but with a couple of additions.

AI that was far less predictable and more likely to properly execute tactics. Like drawing your fire while other groups worked on flanking maneuvers. So, basically, if you weren't extremely careful about squad placement, talents, or extremely detailed with controlling the engagement, you would find yourself overwhelmed quickly. And the AI shouldn't do the same thing twice, ever. You should never be able to reload or restart a mission and learn your way through a section.

And more waves of enemies. Hardcore and even more so, Insanity should be about constantly fighting in the red and always being nearly out of ammunition, IMHO. Not paying attention or properly using your squad powers/weapons should result in death or your last bullet used to stave off the restart.

The upgrades, via research or armor while inconsequential in lesser modes as it is right now, should be the difference between having that sliver of something extra as the line between life/death-completing a level/multiple restarts. Insanity should buff CD's as you can't win without the extra cast or two. It should be necessary to choose the right ammo powers, or squad ammo, including shredder ammo or risk 5 restarts until you get lucky enough to offset poor decisions.

Insanity should leave you frustrated, with at least an elevated heart rate, two broken keyboards, a shattered mouse, and the analogue sticks snapped off at least one controller.

Hopefully, ME3 will get that right. Simply modifying damage percentages and adding a layer of protection to targets does not make insanity. That should have been Veteran settings or at most the settings for mooks on hardcore. The above should be the settings for mini-bosses/squad leaders on hardcore and the setting for everything on Insanity.

[jwalker]

curly haired boy wrote...

I just want them to fix medigel, which is rather useless for your teammates. 99% of the time when your squad goes down, reviving them does no good. they die again while simply rising to their feet.

waste of a cooldown unless it's fixed.

i just played horizon on my insanity engineer. drone spam kept me personally safe, but my squad died in seconds. i wish they were more durable on insanity, or at least against collectors.

When you take cover, your squaddies tend to advance a little more. That's specially dangerous with an Engineer. When you cast drone, you can trigger another wave of enemies. The drone is Shepard. If you want to keep them alive you should do some micromanagement.

[termokanden]

Sometimes your squaddies are just dumb though.



Last time I finished Horizon on Insanity, I basically had to do all the work myself. I was observing Jacob very closely to understand why he died so quickly.



I ordered him to go behind cover. He did. Then he got up to shoot but would never go back to cover again. He just stood there getting hit by shockwaves until he died.



Generally I can keep them alive, but they don't seem to understand how the Scions work.

[The Spamming Troll]

insanity in ME2 isnt any more tactical then ME1s insanity. ME1s could be far easier if you were efficient with biotics or had immunity, but both basically revolved around the same thing, guns. shoot here, shoot there, shoot everywhere. now that can be fun and all unless your playing a class labeled "best class at taking out enemies without the use of weapons." i just dont think making me shoot someone more then 4 times on casual and 40 times on insanity makes the game tactical. it makes it tedious(didnt i just shoot you 37 times?). it makes it frustrating(didnt i just shoot you in the head?). it makes in unplayable(didnt i buy mass effect to play a *different* shooter?).

bioware is awesome so i really think ME3 is going to be ****ing awesome but if i get ME3 in my hands and find out i still cant use biotics on insanity, i really dont think i could be more dissapointed. planet scanning, repetetive mini games and vehicles can be just the same, but those are acceptable bevcause video game designers are obsesd with having those things in their games, but if i play ME3 and cant use my abilities, whats the point? (i know i can play easier difficulties and i do. i play veteran without upgrades. its the only way i can enjoy ME2. the ONLY way.)

i was somewhat dumbfounded when i figured out what bioware did with difficulty levels in ME2. i feel like thats an idea a high schooler came up with. a high schooler with bieber hair.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:56 .

[termokanden]

It always annoyed me how increased difficulty normally just means everything has 10 times more health and does 10 times more damage. It's sort of there in ME2 but then again I thought it was done better there than in ME1.



You can just destroy their defenses and then it's easy enough to kill them. It just seems to be about using the right abilities and you won't need to do ridiculous amounts of damage.



Some enemies like YMIR mechs of course are just meant to be very durable.

[lazuli]

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

The biggest change I'd like to see made to ME2's insanity( and I guess the game overall, but it only matters on insanity) is more player health and shield value, with slower and separate regen for both. Basically, less OHKOs to Shepard, but have the long term survivability lowered. As it is now, you deal with the enemies that approach, and you can't died unless you do something monumentally stupid.

I disagree.  I think the current delay before shields and health regenerate is annoyingly long for anyone other than a Vanguard.  I don't mind Shepard being as fragile as he or she is, simply because one hit kills don't really exist anymore*.

And you can die in cases other than monumental stupidity.  I've died plenty of times because I was counting on a stagger from a squadmate who was too busy reloading to use a power.  Sometimes I get stuck on a wall and can't escape.  And there are the stun locks from Warp, rockets, drones, and the like that can cause trouble when chained.  But I can see how if all you do is camp behind cover you would have a hard time dying.

I think instead of increased regeneration delays, Bioware should implement more enemies that are willing to pressure Shepard in close combat.  More flanking enemies could also shake things up.  As it is, there are very few battles with forced flanking in ME2.  Freedom's Progress stands out in that area (for better or worse), as do some parts of Lair of the Shadow Broker.


*Flamethrowers are a gray area.

[termokanden]

Yep. Freedom's Progress hilariously has one of the more difficult battles in the game if you're playing on insanity.



That's because mechs in general are always moving forward, but many organic enemies will just sit behind cover and fire at you. For this reason I always consider mechs one of the bigger threats.



Think I've said this before, but the only real threat on insanity if you're playing carefully is the small fraction of enemies that will actually threaten your cover. If you focus on those first, there's pretty much no fight in the game that's difficult at all, with some notable exceptions of course (Horizon comes to mind).