72 réponses à ce sujet

[Lvl20DM]

I think we won't see any of the ME2 crew return as squadmates. Any of them can die, for one. Most of them talk about leaving after the Mission is done. Samara, Jack, Thane, Grunt, and Tali have reasons to leave clearly stated. Others can be implied. All of them fulfilled their story arc.

Bioware uses squadmates to explore the universe and the story.

[Whatever42]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Who says you'll have the time to go on recruitment missions? Its not like you can pick up the most powerful human biotic hanging out at the 7-11 or find the perfect krogan hanging out at the unemployment office. And you spend almost all of ME2 recruiting your team. You would have to deliberately kill everyone off to not have anyone at all.

However, I agree, that for the sake of playability, you'll pick up a couple more teammates. Bioware simply wouldn't give you a scenario where you had to solo missions. I thought originally that they would bring back Liara and Ashaiden to the fold in ME3, for those who wanted their suicide mission to be a suicide mission, but that does not look likely now. So I predict some new crew members, at least 4, with some non-LI characters reduced to NPC status.

I don't think the old teammates will disappear entirely - maybe they go off on convert missions so you'll still see them in Wrex/Liara like roles - but we will get new people.

Who said anything about recruitment missions? ME1 didn't have such. You simply meet Ash and Kaidan during the tutorial, and everyone else except Liara on the Citadel. The majority of the team is with you before you even start with the main missions and free roaming. The recruitment & loyalty missions were a specific ME2 thing. I don't expect a repeat of that.

No, ME3 will be plot driven, I have no doubt. But you want to talk believable? In ME2, you spend the whole mission recruiting the best team imaginable but in ME3, they all find better things to do and you just happen to bump into your new teammates hanging out in the presidium? I mean, recruiting Tali to serve on an alliance vessel on a crucial mission because she was good in one very short fight? That strains realism.

In reality, Bioware could justify any decision story-wise. But if they did the whole ME2 reboot thing again, people would flip. All the love interests will have to get important roles in ME3. They can't favour Liara over the rest or there would be a riot.  However, they also have to face the possibilities that each could be dead. The easiest way to handle that (instead of writing six Wrex/Wreave NPC's with the depth Liara will have in ME3) is to simply leave them on the squad. If they died, you'll have one less squadmate.

Remember, there are dire consequences for ME3.  Everyone lives and you have a big squad, everyone dies and you have a tiny squad.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:42 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Lvl20DM wrote...

Bioware uses squadmates to explore the universe and the story.

And they LOVE making up new ones.

I am of the opinion, which others too are most likely beginning to share, that the LotSB model will be the way for Bioware to keep the old squaddies in the game, without making them squaddies or crucial to the plot.

Wrex style "cameos" for the "less popular" ones (sorry for the expression, no disrespect intended!), and Liara style content for the "Tali and Garrus" types, personal one-time squaddie status' possibly included.

At this point, I'd say the Virmire survivor has the best possibility of returning to the squad, Liara having been "written out", so to speak. The squad could very likely be otherwise all new.

[Wittand25]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Who says you'll have the time to go on recruitment missions? Its not like you can pick up the most powerful human biotic hanging out at the 7-11 or find the perfect krogan hanging out at the unemployment office. And you spend almost all of ME2 recruiting your team. You would have to deliberately kill everyone off to not have anyone at all.

However, I agree, that for the sake of playability, you'll pick up a couple more teammates. Bioware simply wouldn't give you a scenario where you had to solo missions. I thought originally that they would bring back Liara and Ashaiden to the fold in ME3, for those who wanted their suicide mission to be a suicide mission, but that does not look likely now. So I predict some new crew members, at least 4, with some non-LI characters reduced to NPC status.

I don't think the old teammates will disappear entirely - maybe they go off on convert missions so you'll still see them in Wrex/Liara like roles - but we will get new people.

Who said anything about recruitment missions? ME1 didn't have such. You simply meet Ash and Kaidan during the tutorial, and everyone else except Liara on the Citadel. The majority of the team is with you before you even start with the main missions and free roaming. The recruitment & loyalty missions were a specific ME2 thing. I don't expect a repeat of that.

No, ME3 will be plot driven, I have no doubt. But you want to talk believable? In ME2, you spend the whole mission recruiting the best team imaginable but in ME3, they all find better things to do and you just happen to bump into your new teammates hanging out in the presidium? I mean, recruiting Tali to serve on an alliance vessel on a crucial mission because she was good in one very short fight? That strains realism.

In reality, Bioware could justify any decision story-wise. But if they did the whole ME2 reboot thing again, people would flip. All the love interests will have to get important roles in ME3. They can't favour Liara over the rest or there would be a riot.  However, they also have to face the possibilities that each could be dead. The easiest way to handle that (instead of writing six Wrex/Wreave NPC's with the depth Liara will have in ME3) is to simply leave them on the squad. If they died, you'll have one less squadmate.

Remember, there are dire consequences for ME3.  Everyone lives and you have a big squad, everyone dies and you have a tiny squad.

That is not simple, it is wasteful, there is a difference between those two things. Having all of them as full squadmates creates an amount of dialog, cutscenes voice recording and power development that many players wont be able to expirience), also considering the tousands of possible alive/dead scenarios you have  a breeding ground for bugs that would be hell to manage.
Turning many of them into Wrex-like NPCs makes it easier to replace them, easier to write dialog for them and allows players who dont know the franchise (I know that some of you are going to say that Bioware should not care about the money they spend, but anyway) to fully enjoy the game without taking anything away from those who played ME1 and 2.

Modifié par Wittand25, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:56 .

[Whatever42]

Turning them into Wrex/Wreave NPCs, with the depth that Ashley and Liara will get, will quickly get silly. There are 6 of them (assuming we only talk LIs). So you would have to write a deep story and dialogue for each of them and then write a completely different set of dialogue for the replacement NPC.

As a squadmate, there is actually less work. You have the characters and animations already created so not a lot of work there. You need to create the dialogue but that will be less work than the double effort of making them an NPC. And the cutscenes in ME2 are generated with the engine and simply include whatever characters you are with. No extra work - as I said, the character modeling is already done. In fact, to create a whole new team would take a lot more development.

And lets face it - almost no one will get ME3 who has not played ME2. If you look at tv, it is very rare for series to pick up viewers in later seasons. However, even if that was the case - how would a deep Miranda NPC be any less confusing than a Miranda NPC squadmate?

Very few people lost more than a few crewmates so every returning crewmate will be enjoyed by most fans. Those who miss out on the experience will be encouraged to replay the game. Regardless of the roles of the team in ME3, Bioware will be creating a ton of content that no one will see their first play-through.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:21 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Wittand25 wrote...

That is not simple, it is wasteful, there is a difference between those two things. Having all of them as full squadmates creates an amount of dialog, cutscenes voice recording and power development that many players wont be able to expirience), also considering the tousands of possible alive/dead scenarios you have  a breeding ground for bugs that would be hell to manage.
Turning many of them into Wrex-like NPCs makes it easier to replace them, easier to write dialog for them and allows players who dont know the franchise (I know that some of you are going to say that Bioware should not care about the money they spend, but anyway) to fully enjoy the game without taking anything away from those who played ME1 and 2.

Exactly this.

People don't seem to understand that the devs won't have unlimited amount of time and resources to create contingencies and branching scenarios for the various squaddie "lived or died, became exiled, stayed loyal" type of variables.

I hope they let the fandom know about the new squad early on in the development, so the inevitable nerd rage can abate a bit once the release date starts getting close. I say this as one who partook in the "I want Liara, I want Wrex, I want Ashley!!11!" nerd rage of '09. I understand. 

[evengill]

As mentioned above by Lvl20DM, Samara, Jack, Thane, Grunt, and Tali might very well have left at the beginning of ME3. I suspect that there will be room for carry-over with LI in some fashion (so Jack might actually stay). Mordin is old, he might have died/retired by the beginning of ME3, or take on a scientific support role more than being a squad member.

Ashley/Kaiden will probably be back in some fashion or other, I wouldn't rule out that they would be team-mates, though you might get the same as "NPC's".

Maybe you will get the opportunity to choose between Alliance (and Kaiden/Ashley) or Cerberus (Jacob/Miranda), if so probably based on your renegade/paragon actions in ME2

As to Liara, she will probably be where she is now, managing the Shadow Brokers network, and as to that I suspect that you will start with some independent infrastructure, and that your attachment to Cerberus/Alliance might be an issue. I say this because of how we basically ended up with a huge "command center" at the end of LotSB. That is a base to wage a galactic war from if ever I have seen one;)...



So characters that are likely to stay on to begin with is, I guess, Garrus. LI (in certain circumstances) and I assume a couple of the others (Thane Krios, maybe Grunt). Most of them are easily written out of active service based on what we know from ME2...



It is not unlikely that you will end up with a smaller team (more like ME1), and that you will be able to pick from ME1/ME2, though taking into account that some might have died...

[Eldareus]

Highly unlikey, Bioware has to create ME3 as much as possible a stand alone experience to cater to people who never played ME1 or ME2. I don't like it but I think that is the new model in gaming these days. Bioware will include as much backstory to satisify the previous fans of ME1 and ME2, but they also have to put some focus on new players.

Modifié par Eldareus, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:58 .

[Pedrak]

If you give players the chance to import a final ME2 save in which only a couple of companions survived, you can't "punish" them later in ME3, least of all by going "Hey, did we mention you did too bad in the previous game to win the final mission? Sucks to be you, buddy!". That's just bad design.

In any case, I agree with Mox and others about the cameos.

And you know what? I want new cool party members, and I want old party members to develop, rather than freezing their character arcs and re-using them as Shep's goons. Garrus shouldn' be rotting in the Normandy again mumbling about calibrations, he should become a badass Turian Spectre and cooperate with us in a crucial mission.

Modifié par Pedrak, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[Whatever42]

Eldareus wrote...
Highly unlikey, Bioware has to create ME3 as much as possible a stand alone experience to cater to people who never played ME1 or ME2. I don't like it but I think that is the new model in gaming these days. Bioware will include as much backstory to satisify the previous fans of ME1 and ME2, but they also have to put some focus on new players.

I'm not really sure why people keep saying this. The very large majority of people who play ME3 will have played ME2.  A game company who would diminish the experience for 95% of their players (made up number but I think its very high) to accomodate those few who have come on-board this late in the series makes no sense. Especially since there will be so much back story based on previous decisions that it would be difficult to follow anyway. 

ME2 did make commercial sense because they likely knew they were porting to PS2 but many fans raged. Why would Bioware repeat that?

[Mox Ruuga]

Pedrak wrote...

And you know what? I want new cool party members, and I want old party members to develop, rather than freezing their character arcs and re-using them as Shep's goons. Garrus shouldn' be rotting in the Normandy again mumbling about calibrations, he should become a badass Turian Spectre and cooperate with us in a crucial mission.

Indeedy. Bring on the new squad (as long as the old squaddies are treated with Wrex/LotSB Liara level of respect)!

Seemingly the LotSB dossiers already kinda hint towards a need for Garrus to move on from under Shep's tutelage.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Also it might help having friends in some critical places...



Shep walks in : "Garrus old, so head of C-sec now, My you're moving up."



Garrus : "Yup my contacts has reach and the job is flexible.."



Shep : " Soo Garrus old pal you mind i just stroll up to the council champers and blow the head of a Turian "councilor""?



Garrus : "Not at all, you wanna borrow my rifle..i love this rifle"?



Shep : "Nah i'm good, See you later for drinks'n'azures"..

[Tazzmission]

Mesina2 wrote...

Bioware will need to put few more squadmates (2-4 ) in case you have only 2-4 survivors from Suicide Mission

yea i see what you mean. so if thane dies i hope we can get ferron or koylayte

[JPXD]

I agree that current squad members should move on. As long as old squadmates come back for the epic final assault against the reapers that I'm hoping will take place (Wrex leading the Krogans, Garrus an elite squad of Spectres, etc. etc.) I will be content.



If Bioware wanted to make me ecstatic they'd keep Legion around so that I have an insider look into the geth.

[Flamesz]

Shepard and is crew is Jesus and the twelve disciples. I'm not ****ing kidding.



I'm not some crazy christian saying this, i'm an Athiest but do you notice this? Shepard was raised from the dead to fight an enemy like no one before and has 12 members who follow him.



I wonder if it was intended. Anyway, there will probably be 2 or 3 more new members to keep it fresh. However, some will leave probably.

[Johnny B. Morbid]

In the opening cinematic of MS3 the Quarian catches a bullet between the eyes.
:happy::happy::happy:


i can only hope...

[Tazzmission]

JPXD wrote...

I agree that current squad members should move on. As long as old squadmates come back for the epic final assault against the reapers that I'm hoping will take place (Wrex leading the Krogans, Garrus an elite squad of Spectres, etc. etc.) I will be content.

If Bioware wanted to make me ecstatic they'd keep Legion around so that I have an insider look into the geth.

or like i suggested before. let the player build there own squad by picking some original crew mates to replace some of the new

[Ecael]

Nine months and this thread still appears like a Pokémon in the wild.

Picture still relevant:

Modifié par Ecael, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:52 .

[Flamesz]

Ecael wrote...

Nine months and this thread still appears like a Pokémon in the wild.

Picture still relevant:

How is it? Some are just rediculous. Vigil is a VI,  the Geth Collosus... is just a Collosus. Hacket is just an Admiral and Aria wouldn't give up her power on Omega to come work for you.

[Ecael]

Flamesz wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Nine months and this thread still appears like a Pokémon in the wild.

Picture still relevant:

How is it? Some are just rediculous. Vigil is a VI,  the Geth Collosus... is just a Collosus. Hacket is just an Admiral and Aria wouldn't give up her power on Omega to come work for you.

Charr would use his krogan poetry powers to persuade enemies into dying.

[Anacronian Stryx]

*now has a pleasing mental image of Hackett riding a Colossus into battle like a wild stallion*..."Your request of life is Denied!!"

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 21 septembre 2010 - 05:53 .

[HazelrahFiver]

crusadex wrote...
Exactly. That shows what a good/bad leader your Shepard was. Maybe one or two new dossiers for a little back-up, but not a whole group of new squad. There is a continuum in this series, if you lead them bad in the second part then you should suffer the consequences of this in the third part. Maybe something like not having enough squad members in the final battle and because of that having much more loses or can't being able to do a critical part of the final battle etc. Possibilities are endless.

Well, except that they can't break the game's format.  For instance, they can't make it so if you normally have two squadmates with you, you should only get to have one.  That just won't work.  The same could be said about the final battle, in which they can't make it so that you CAN'T win, no matter how crappy a job you did in ME1 and 2.

[Greed1914]

I'm sure we'll have some new ones just because they don't want it to feel stagnant. For instance, I get the feeling the Samara/Morinth won't stick around, and Thane could possibly croak before ME3. I really doubt if we'll see Ashley/Kaiden on the team since it is guaranteed in ME1 that one or the other has to die. Sure, several members in ME2 can die, but they can just as easily all live. The Ashley/Kaiden choice means that if they include the living person in the game, they have to do two of everything. With ME2, they can pick which ones to keep and simply say that the ones that didn't left for whatever reason. I think that the "true" ending was the one where everyone lives, but we won't keep everyone.

[HazelrahFiver]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Lvl20DM wrote...

Bioware uses squadmates to explore the universe and the story.

And they LOVE making up new ones.

I am of the opinion, which others too are most likely beginning to share, that the LotSB model will be the way for Bioware to keep the old squaddies in the game, without making them squaddies or crucial to the plot.

Wrex style "cameos" for the "less popular" ones (sorry for the expression, no disrespect intended!), and Liara style content for the "Tali and Garrus" types, personal one-time squaddie status' possibly included.

At this point, I'd say the Virmire survivor has the best possibility of returning to the squad, Liara having been "written out", so to speak. The squad could very likely be otherwise all new.

Yes actually, I have been gaining this opinion like you said.  ME3 is likely to, in my opinion, not give you a permanent squad at any time.  You may have a few people on your ship, and you will take one with you when you go on a mission, but for much of the game you will temporarily team up with any of the post-squadmates from the first two games.  They will stick around for the current mission and then carry on their way, completing their own objectives; you could even run into some or all of them several times.  In this fashion, those players (or those particular saves of every player, since we all have them) could be rewarded for their success during the Suicide Mission.  This would make sense as to why it can be so tricky, exhausting, and tactical when getting everyone to live through ME1 and 2 (the exception being either Ashley or Kaiden.)

I think you are very likely to cut loose from Cerberus early on, if not in the opening cutscene, therefore forcing the squad to become disbanded in some way or another (at least, most of the squad.)

Note: I consider it a reward to have a longer game.

[AntiChri5]

They could simply give us Alliance soldiers with vaugely similar skillsets to loat squad members.



Besides which, has anybody here done a minimalist run of ME 1, ME 2, or DA: O?



In ME 1 you can completely avoid recruiting Garrus, ugnore Therum until very late, hit Virmire early to lose Wrex and Ash/Kai.



In DA: O you can tell every possible companion except Allistair to bugger off as soon as you meet them.



In ME 2 the only characters you are forced to have are Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Mordin, Garrus and Legion.



You need two living squadmates to import into ME 3. 2 + Virmirs survivor = 3, if Liara leaves the Ship its 4. We only need one or two new squadmates to pad it out.



ME 1 to ME 2 doubled the number of possible squadmates, does anybody think ME 3 will give us less?



Why would we spend an entire game on character development and recruitment if they are all disposable? At the very least we will get half back.