528 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Xilizhra wrote...

also, Bioware had to convey a message, give us a feeling for the character. Don't you think if they wanted us to be sympathetic with her they would have made her diary (which you can NOT find before finding Elnora) different...like "oh Goddess I had no choice. I'm in too deep, I know what the eclipse is really doing but I had to go through the initiation or they would have killed me"

no, we get a "AH I have killed that ridiculous volus....I am soooooooo awesome" it is obvious how Bioware wanted to picture her

Metagaming and irrelevant.

not quite the point is it? Bioware obviously wanted to villify her...and they did. 

you want to make her pass as a scared little asari girl with nowhere to run when Bioware is going out of their way to show you she is not.

again

I NEVER kill her, because I play Paragon characters and a Paragon will give her a chance to calm down and be level headed  before pumping her full of tungsten BUT.....after listening her Diary my paragon Shepard would have had no problem questioning her about it and kill her if she even looked at her SMG.

with all this said...she is definitely not a scared little asari in over her head

[Xilizhra]

not quite the point is it? Bioware obviously wanted to villify her...and they did.



you want to make her pass as a scared little asari girl with nowhere to run when Bioware is going out of their way to show you she is not.

I couldn't care less what Bioware is doing. Maybe they actually comprehend the concept of character depth/evolution here, even.

[AntiChri5]

Which she only does if you promise to kill her.

You missed the point entirely.

Obviously. I don't protect people based on their ****ability, otherwise I'd let everyone except Liara and maybe Samara die.

People are only debating this because she is young, pretty, cute and innocent looking. If it were a turian people wouldnt have a problem with it.

[Xilizhra]

You missed the point entirely.

Do reiterate it. The Renegade interrupt isn't a pragmatic quick kill by any means.

People are only debating this because she is young, pretty, cute and innocent looking. If it were a turian people wouldnt have a problem with it.

Quite frankly, I find this offensive, both to me personally and to the rest of the populace of this forum. I think that we're, overall, capable of thinking with our minds and not our genitalia

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

You missed the point entirely.

Do reiterate it. The Renegade interrupt isn't a pragmatic quick kill by any means.

People are only debating this because she is young, pretty, cute and innocent looking. If it were a turian people wouldnt have a problem with it.

Quite frankly, I find this offensive, both to me personally and to the rest of the populace of this forum. I think that we're, overall, capable of thinking with our minds and not our genitalia

HA!  Xilizhra, I normally agree with your posts not this time. Human men treat females (especially attractive ones, as all asari seem to be) far differently than they would males (especially ugly ones, as all turians seems to be, sorry Garrus fans, but his charm is well...rugged).
 
This truth about our species is something your typical young asari is more than capable of figuring out and using to her advantage.

[inversevideo]

Xilizhra wrote...

also, Bioware had to convey a message, give us a feeling for the character. Don't you think if they wanted us to be sympathetic with her they would have made her diary (which you can NOT find before finding Elnora) different...like "oh Goddess I had no choice. I'm in too deep, I know what the eclipse is really doing but I had to go through the initiation or they would have killed me"

no, we get a "AH I have killed that ridiculous volus....I am soooooooo awesome" it is obvious how Bioware wanted to picture her

Metagaming and irrelevant.

Right. I figured that was where you were coming from.

i.e. based only on what you see, when you encounter Elnora, are you justiied in taking her life?

Back when in ME1, when my Sheps were all 100% Paragon, I had some similar angst over ending Chorban.
I would feel guilty if I did, and equally guilty if I did not.

But Elnora is different no?

You have been shooting at mercs for hours.
Do you have a reason to hesitate killing Elnora?
She is in the uniform and draws down on three heavilly armed individuals.

So why would you hesitate?

Based solely on what you are told, that each Eclipse Sister earns her uniform by commiting a murder, there is no reason to hesitate. If only to not risk injury to yourself or your squad.

Now, let's say you do hesitate and you hear her explanation.
Does it make sense? If you are being played and you let her go, what is the worse that could happen?
She could end up skyjacking some civilian for ride and money. 
Or she could decide being a merc is not for her and go back home.

Could you live with letting her go, and her killing someone?
Or is she beneath your notice, as you have bigger issues?

Since you are hanging out with folks that have done worse than Elnora, it is not inconceivable that a Renegade response is that 'if you are not in my way I need not waste the bullet'.   A praragon response would be to let you live.

So, it all comes down to whether you hesitate pulling the trigger, when Elnora pulls her SMG, or not.
And if you do hesitate, why did you hesitate?

[crimzontearz]

Xilizhra wrote...

not quite the point is it? Bioware obviously wanted to villify her...and they did.

you want to make her pass as a scared little asari girl with nowhere to run when Bioware is going out of their way to show you she is not.

I couldn't care less what Bioware is doing. Maybe they actually comprehend the concept of character depth/evolution here, even.

you are pulling character developement on a 2 exchange conversation over events that happened in the span of hours prior to the meeting the timeline of which you cannot even prove?

COME ON!!!

Bioware had the choice to make her look like aVillain playing you or someone in way over her head and they chose the former, your original question was if she was genuine in her moral objection and bioware de facto went out of their way to show us she was not

[Xilizhra]

HA!  Xilizhra, I normally agree with your posts not this time. Human men
treat females (especially attractive ones, as all asari seem to be) far
differently than they would males (especially ugly ones, as all turians
seems to be, sorry Garrus fans, but his charm is well...rugged).
 
This
truth about our species is something your typical young asari is more
than capable of figuring out and using to her advantage.

Maybe it's because I'm not a human male that my reasoning doesn't work this way, but it still seems remarkably sexist to automatically make that assumption about every single male siding with me. I'll freely admit that in a less hostile situation I'd be far more likely to **** Elnora than I would a turian, but I'd do the same thing as I do for Elnora to anyone begging for their life. Even a batarian, and they're bloody hideous.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 22 septembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Aggie Punbot]

All right, that's it. For every person that said they spared Elnora, I am going to kill Shiala in ME1, even if I have to keep saving and reloading to do so. :-P

[crimzontearz]

TS2Aggie wrote...

All right, that's it. For every person that said they spared Elnora, I am going to kill Shiala in ME1, even if I have to keep saving and reloading to do so. :-P

but but.......shiala is SOOOOOO hot and she definitely wants to booooone you :innocent:

[AntiChri5]

Do reiterate it. The Renegade interrupt isn't a pragmatic quick kill by any means.

Your point was that police do not investigate by shooting people. Mine was that they do when they get shot at as soon as they enter. I was talking about the mission in general, not Elnora specifically.

Quite frankly, I find this offensive, both to me personally and to the rest of the populace of this forum. I think that we're, overall, capable of thinking with our minds and not our genitalia

Its not sexual, at least not entirely. One of my points was that she was young and innocent looking. It's not just exploiting people thinking with their ****s, but also the overly chivalrous, those who have paternal feelings etc.

[Khayness]

Eclipse members earn their uniform by murder. She was dressed up all right.

[crimzontearz]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Do reiterate it. The Renegade interrupt isn't a pragmatic quick kill by any means.

Your point was that police do not investigate by shooting people. Mine was that they do when they get shot at as soon as they enter. I was talking about the mission in general, not Elnora specifically.

Quite frankly, I find this offensive, both to me personally and to the rest of the populace of this forum. I think that we're, overall, capable of thinking with our minds and not our genitalia

Its not sexual, at least not entirely. One of my points was that she was young and innocent looking. It's not just exploiting people thinking with their ****s, but also the overly chivalrous, those who have paternal feelings etc.

gah.....that happens to me all the ...I have such a thing for young innocent "little girl" figures...that's why I always went for Liara and that's why Tali is sooooo tempting

[Xilizhra]

Your point was that police do not investigate by shooting people. Mine was that they do when they get shot at as soon as they enter. I was talking about the mission in general, not Elnora specifically.

I have no problem shooting people who shoot at me, especially since none of them ever surrender. Elnora doesn't do so.

Its not sexual, at least not entirely. One of my points was that she was young and innocent looking. It's not just exploiting people thinking with their ****s, but also the overly chivalrous, those who have paternal feelings etc.

Well, the part about being young and innocent is sort of a cornerstone of her story--the whole "being new" and all.

[yummysoap]

I shoot the **** out of her because she goes for her gun. Even if she just holds it afterwards, it doesn't change the fact that not shooting the asari in the enemy uniform reaching for her gun is a stupid thing to do.

[Xilizhra]

yummysoap wrote...

I shoot the **** out of her because she goes for her gun. Even if she just holds it afterwards, it doesn't change the fact that not shooting the asari in the enemy uniform reaching for her gun is a stupid thing to do.

Again, you don't shoot her, you just draw and taunt her; this is, in fact, the only way to get her to shoot you.

[packardbell]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I think she's a jerk, but I still think outright blowing her away as a Paragon is metagaming.

Not really. If you actually listen to the volus then you'll hear that to become an Eclipse you need to commit a murder, or she wouldn't even be in the complex.

[Xilizhra]

packardbell wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

I think she's a jerk, but I still think outright blowing her away as a Paragon is metagaming.

Not really. If you actually listen to the volus then you'll hear that to become an Eclipse you need to commit a murder, or she wouldn't even be in the complex.

So you're killing her just for committing a murder? Considering your squad, that seems quite hypocritical.

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

HA!  Xilizhra, I normally agree with your posts not this time. Human men
treat females (especially attractive ones, as all asari seem to be) far
differently than they would males (especially ugly ones, as all turians
seems to be, sorry Garrus fans, but his charm is well...rugged).
 
This
truth about our species is something your typical young asari is more
than capable of figuring out and using to her advantage.

Maybe it's because I'm not a human male that my reasoning doesn't work this way, but it still seems remarkably sexist to automatically make that assumption about every single male siding with me. I'll freely admit that in a less hostile situation I'd be far more likely to **** Elnora than I would a turian, but I'd do the same thing as I do for Elnora to anyone begging for their life. Even a batarian, and they're bloody hideous.

Not just every male siding with you, I make this assumption about every single human man that has ever or will ever live, including a male Shepard. Men treat women differently, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but always different. 
 
To borrow Mordin’s analogy of yawning, it’s a social reflex except this one is underlined and reinforced by our most basic biological and psychological drives. It can be mitigated through cultural acclamation and self-discipline, but never eliminated.
 
But what do ‘ya think? If Elnora has spent any time at all around humans she had to have picked up on this. Does anyone think she’s above using this… ahem, quirk of humanity to save her own life?

I don't, and I can't blame her.  Like Zaeed said "Can't say I wouldn't do the same."

[PsyrenY]

TS2Aggie wrote...

All right, that's it. For every person that said they spared Elnora, I am going to kill Shiala in ME1, even if I have to keep saving and reloading to do so. :-P

Don't forget to kill Wrex each time too. I mean, he pulled a gun on you! We can't take chances!

[Xilizhra]

But what do ‘ya think? If Elnora has spent any time at all around humans she had to have picked up on this. Does anyone think she’s above using this… ahem, quirk of humanity to save her own life?

She could. It wouldn't make a difference to me; I'm inclined to let those begging for their lives get away.

[packardbell]

Xilizhra wrote...

packardbell wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

I think she's a jerk, but I still think outright blowing her away as a Paragon is metagaming.

Not really. If you actually listen to the volus then you'll hear that to become an Eclipse you need to commit a murder, or she wouldn't even be in the complex.

So you're killing her just for committing a murder? Considering your squad, that seems quite hypocritical.

I'm not debating the morality of it but just proving that you don't need to metagame to find that little tidbit out.

[Xilizhra]

It's true, you can kill her without metagaming if your Shepard's a hypocrite.

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

But what do ‘ya think? If Elnora has spent any time at all around humans she had to have picked up on this. Does anyone think she’s above using this… ahem, quirk of humanity to save her own life?

She could. It wouldn't make a difference to me; I'm inclined to let those begging for their lives get away.

Me too.  Shepard should REALLY start carrying flexicuffs.

[packardbell]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's true, you can kill her without metagaming if your Shepard's a hypocrite.

I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.