528 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's true, you can kill her without metagaming if your Shepard's a hypocrite.

I agree.

(Or a Renegade.)

[Xilizhra]

See Jack. And probably Miranda.

[PsyrenY]

packardbell wrote...
I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

The point is not that she didn't deserve it, the point is that you couldn't know she deserves it.

You can be perfectly right and still be metagaming... in fact, the whole point of metagaming is to be right about something your character couldn't possibly know.

[IrishSpectre257]

She shot first.

[Whatever42]

packardbell wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's true, you can kill her without metagaming if your Shepard's a hypocrite.

I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

Shiala deserved it? And Jack doesn't? Or Thane?

[Nimander]

As you asked, Xilizhra, I tend to keep her alive unless my Shephard has Zaeed in the party. I tend to play primarily paragons.



However.



What *I* am arguing is that those who kill her are not a hypocrite, nor is she a poor scared Asari in over her head. It seems to me that all you will accept is 'I'm wrong, you're right! She was a scared little Asari and no one should kill her!' -- soley because you are choosing to interpret things in a way that requires a great deal of handwaving.



Should one kill her? That's debatable. I can see it argued either way. Hot zone, she's got a weapon is totally valid. So is 'I'm freaking Commander Shephard and I always do the right thing, even if it's a major risk!'



What I'm arguing against is your insistence that anyone who kills her are wrong/hypocrites/etc.

[Whatever42]

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

She shot first.

I didn't know George Lucas posted on these forums! Hi George! Please stop making movies. <_<

[Whatever42]

Optimystic_X wrote...

packardbell wrote...
I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

The point is not that she didn't deserve it, the point is that you couldn't know she deserves it.

You can be perfectly right and still be metagaming... in fact, the whole point of metagaming is to be right about something your character couldn't possibly know.

People now know they are being played and it bothers them so they will always kill her. If they never found the recording only the most renegade of Shepards (Shiala killers) would shoot her. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

Generally she does "aim" her gun at you. That's generally when I take her out. Too bad game doesn't compensate for time because her death should have been instantaneous that way.

[inversevideo]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

packardbell wrote...
I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

The point is not that she didn't deserve it, the point is that you couldn't know she deserves it.

You can be perfectly right and still be metagaming... in fact, the whole point of metagaming is to be right about something your character couldn't possibly know.

People now know they are being played and it bothers them so they will always kill her. If they never found the recording only the most renegade of Shepards (Shiala killers) would shoot her. 

Not accurrate.
I spared Shiala.  It was clear that she was used and abused by Saren, and saw no reason to kill her.

I shot Elnora, because Pitne For told me that 'each Eclipse Sister earns her uniform by committing a murder'.
So when Elnora reached for her gun I took the interrupt.

I don't think you need to be committed to one path or the other, to do what you think is best for the situation.
I don't let Mordin or Miranda kill their former associates b/c it would not be good for them.

The only point where I 'manipulate' the system is on Zaeed's mission and aqain on Jack's. The only two times I take actions that I don't agree with, in order to fulfill a later goal in the game.  

But with Elnora *shrug*. 

Is there a reason to hesitate killing her when she pulls her gun?

[packardbell]

Optimystic_X wrote...

packardbell wrote...
I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

The point is not that she didn't deserve it, the point is that you couldn't know she deserves it.

You can be perfectly right and still be metagaming... in fact, the whole point of metagaming is to be right about something your character couldn't possibly know.

Like I said before, you can find that info out without going through that encounter. Maybe we'll encounter her in ME3?

[PsyrenY]

inversevideo wrote...

Is there a reason to hesitate killing her when she pulls her gun?

None, unless being a Paragon means something to you.

[inversevideo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Is there a reason to hesitate killing her when she pulls her gun?

None, unless being a Paragon means something to you.

Honestly, I am not trying to be wise, with this response, but can you define Paragon for me?

I'm only asking because I find that if I ask ten folks what is Paragon and what is Rengade, I can get ten different answers.   So I am curious what is your definition?


I find I am most comfortable doing what seems right for a particular situation, and environment,.  With 'right' often being defined as will most likely further my goal /mission, and taking into consideration my crew and civilians, when possible.  So, not being committed to an 'alignment',  my ME2 games tend to be Paragade/Renegon.

Can you get through doing strictly one or the other, yes.  But I try to take the path that makes sense for the situation the character is in.

Modifié par inversevideo, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:57 .

[PsyrenY]

inversevideo wrote...

I'm only asking because I find that if I ask ten folks what is Paragon and what is Rengade, I can get ten different answers.   So I am curious what is your definition?

Killing only when necessary. It's really not a complicated concept.

[Xilizhra]

What I'm arguing against is your insistence that anyone who kills her are wrong/hypocrites/etc.

I sort of think that way about many Renegade things in general.

Is there a reason to hesitate killing her when she pulls her gun?

As I've said many times before, you hesitate either way. If you don't take the interrupt, you stay silent; if you do, you take the time to condemn her to death. Whereupon she shoots you and does nothing.

[PsyrenY]

It wouldn't even be hypocrisy if they just agreed that it was a Renegade act.

Paragon Shepard, to Nassana: "You kill people because they're in your way, beneath you. I kill people when they leave me no choice."



(Thane's recruitment.)

[Arijharn]

packardbell wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

packardbell wrote...
I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

The point is not that she didn't deserve it, the point is that you couldn't know she deserves it.

You can be perfectly right and still be metagaming... in fact, the whole point of metagaming is to be right about something your character couldn't possibly know.

Like I said before, you can find that info out without going through that encounter. Maybe we'll encounter her in ME3?

I wonder, can you find this information out and then go back to her?

[PsyrenY]

Arijharn wrote...

I wonder, can you find this information out and then go back to her?

If you skip the room she is hiding in and go back after you get the evidence of her involvement, she will be gone.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:27 .

[AresXX7]

Arijharn wrote...

packardbell wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

packardbell wrote...
I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

The point is not that she didn't deserve it, the point is that you couldn't know she deserves it.

You can be perfectly right and still be metagaming... in fact, the whole point of metagaming is to be right about something your character couldn't possibly know.

Like I said before, you can find that info out without going through that encounter. Maybe we'll encounter her in ME3?

I wonder, can you find this information out and then go back to her?

No, I've tried to skip opening the door she's in, get the datapad, then go back for her (wanted to see if the scene changed if Shep had proof) but she was gone.


Edit: Optimystic_X beat me to the punch.

Modifié par AriesXX7, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Arijharn]

AriesXX7 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

packardbell wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

packardbell wrote...
I don't think Shepard has killed anyone who didn't deserve it.

The point is not that she didn't deserve it, the point is that you couldn't know she deserves it.

You can be perfectly right and still be metagaming... in fact, the whole point of metagaming is to be right about something your character couldn't possibly know.

Like I said before, you can find that info out without going through that encounter. Maybe we'll encounter her in ME3?

I wonder, can you find this information out and then go back to her?

No, I've tried to skip opening the door she's in, get the datapad, then go back for her (wanted to see if the scene changed if Shep had proof) but she was gone.


Edit: Optimystic_X beat me to the punch.

In that case, I feel even better now that I've shot her ...

[yummysoap]

Xilizhra wrote...

yummysoap wrote...

I shoot the **** out of her because she goes for her gun. Even if she just holds it afterwards, it doesn't change the fact that not shooting the asari in the enemy uniform reaching for her gun is a stupid thing to do.

Again, you don't shoot her, you just draw and taunt her; this is, in fact, the only way to get her to shoot you.

It's a bit of a haze, but from what I can remember it was pretty straightforward. I know it's different with different dialogue options, obviously, but I remember Shepard telling her that it's too late for her to decide that merc life isn't for her, and immediately afterwards she drew her gun and I pumped her with lead.

It wasn't an outright "taunt" as much as it was an "I'm going to take you back to the sherrif and you're going to get a rough spanking", which is, like, an order of magnitude smarter than "It's alright, love. Off you go now" considering she's an armed enemy merc. Even without metagaming knowledge I made this decision and I play mostly paragon.

[AntiChri5]

What is the obsession with Paragon and Renegade?



Seriously?



I make decisions based on the charater i am currently playing, not what is red or blue, and two of my six characters let her go.



When will you get that some of us simply dont care about whether something is Paragon or Renegade?

[Pacifien]

Try to reduce the pyramid quoting. People are reading the same thread as you, you don't need to quote back five posts at them.

[Xilizhra]

It's a bit of a haze, but from what I can remember it was pretty straightforward. I know it's different with different dialogue options, obviously, but I remember Shepard telling her that it's too late for her to decide that merc life isn't for her, and immediately afterwards she drew her gun and I pumped her with lead.



It wasn't an outright "taunt" as much as it was an "I'm going to take you back to the sherrif and you're going to get a rough spanking", which is, like, an order of magnitude smarter than "It's alright, love. Off you go now" considering she's an armed enemy merc. Even without metagaming knowledge I made this decision and I play mostly paragon.

Erm, that isn't the implication I got at all, especially considering that there is no option to apprehend her. It's pretty clear that Shepard intends to kill her instantly.

[yummysoap]

AntiChri5 wrote...

What is the obsession with Paragon and Renegade?

Seriously?

I make decisions based on the charater i am currently playing, not what is red or blue, and two of my six characters let her go.

When will you get that some of us simply dont care about whether something is Paragon or Renegade?

This is truth. There are some users on this forum who seem so devout in their Paragon/Renegade-isms that I'm convinced they'd be arguing against the very points they're making if Bioware decided to reverse the values of some of the decisions.

I say things like "mostly paragon" or "mostly renegade", but really I just play depending on what I think makes the most sense.