528 réponses à ce sujet

[Arijharn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Metagame knowledge of interrupts is, I must say, a very useful thing.

Honestly I try not to metagame things where possible. On the flipside a lot of my games tend to be basically identical because I play as 'me' rather than to a set of morals I transcribe for Shephard, but I find the game fun enough to go through it multiple times even like this.

[AntiChri5]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't a cop, she's an invincible supersoldier.

And soldiers are much less reluctant to shoot then cops.

[Xilizhra]

I tend to play as "me" as well, which coincidentally ends up as almost total Paragon.

And soldiers are much less reluctant to shoot then cops.

Not mine.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 septembre 2010 - 03:19 .

[Arijharn]

I'm usually full paragon and up to half renegade depending on class specialisation.

[AntiChri5]

Xilizhra wrote...

I tend to play as "me" as well, which coincidentally ends up as almost total Paragon.

And soldiers are much less reluctant to shoot then cops.

Not mine.

What do cops do? They enforce social order. Their objective is to protect and serve, they only use lethal force when absolutely nessecary.

What do soldiers do?

They kill fight wars.

They kill people.

[Xilizhra]

Mine kills only when necessary, and didn't deem this a necessary time.

[inversevideo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I know you have proper shielding but why wait? At that distance that gun she had could do serious damage.

Sure, if she holds down the trigger for 30 seconds and you and your squad stand there like lumps.

Which is why I think you don't wait to see what she is going to do.
When she pulls the gun, after pleading with you, it seems like she was trying to catch you off guard; else why pull the gun?  I have no problem taking the Renegade action of putting my safety and that of my squad first.  I don't see the logic in assuming she won't fire, won't end up hurting one of us, or that my shields can take it, so 'man up'.

[Xilizhra]

You assume it when you give her the death threat instead of just shooting her.

[PsyrenY]

inversevideo wrote...
Which is why I think you don't wait to see what she is going to do.
When she pulls the gun, after pleading with you, it seems like she was trying to catch you off guard; else why pull the gun?  I have no problem taking the Renegade action of putting my safety and that of my squad first.  I don't see the logic in assuming she won't fire, won't end up hurting one of us, or that my shields can take it, so 'man up'.

So you killed Wrex then? And knocked out Telon?

[Arijharn]

Xilizhra wrote...

You assume it when you give her the death threat instead of just shooting her.

I divorce myself from that because I personally find it bogus. Different strokes I guess.

[Moiaussi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't a cop, she's an invincible supersoldier.

Based on that philosophy, it isn't 'fair' to shoot anyone, even if they are shooting at Shepard. It is nigh impossible for him or her to use reasonable force. I suppose you could play with your eyes closed or something....

Strangely, though, if you don't shoot back, you will either stay pinned down or you will go down. There are even some doors that won't open unless you massacre packs of 'helpless' mercenaries.

Shepard should obviously abort any mission where it is neccessary to shoot back. To take any other action is horrible, simply unforgivable....

Unless of course Shepard is an invincible supersoldier because of the willingness and skill to shoot back.....and even to shoot first, when the situation warrants it.

[Whatever42]

Moiaussi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't a cop, she's an invincible supersoldier.

Based on that philosophy, it isn't 'fair' to shoot anyone, even if they are shooting at Shepard. It is nigh impossible for him or her to use reasonable force. I suppose you could play with your eyes closed or something....

Strangely, though, if you don't shoot back, you will either stay pinned down or you will go down. There are even some doors that won't open unless you massacre packs of 'helpless' mercenaries.

Shepard should obviously abort any mission where it is neccessary to shoot back. To take any other action is horrible, simply unforgivable....

Unless of course Shepard is an invincible supersoldier because of the willingness and skill to shoot back.....and even to shoot first, when the situation warrants it.

Was she part of the mission? She was hiding behind a desk whimpering in a room. Was she pinning Shepard down? Heck, Shepard's mission was to get information from the eclipse, not kill them all. He's just really lucky the information was on a datapad. I can imagine the conversation otherwise: 

"Did you get the information from Eclipse?"
"Um... no, sorry, I killed them all."
"There was no opportunity to question any?"
"Oh sure, one was alone and scared and looked like she wanted to surrender but she was pointing a gun at me and if she would have emptied two or three clips into my shields she might have hurt me so I had to kill her."
<blink>

[PsyrenY]

I'm pretty sure she'll be around in ME3. When Shepard lets her go, s/he says "Get out of here Elnora. You so much as jaywalk, I will find you."

(Emphasis not mine.)

[Xilizhra]

Unless of course Shepard is an invincible supersoldier because of the willingness and skill to shoot back.....and even to shoot first, when the situation warrants it.

Yes, and this situation didn't warrant it.

[Fishy]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't a cop, she's an invincible supersoldier.

Based on that philosophy, it isn't 'fair' to shoot anyone, even if they are shooting at Shepard. It is nigh impossible for him or her to use reasonable force. I suppose you could play with your eyes closed or something....

Strangely, though, if you don't shoot back, you will either stay pinned down or you will go down. There are even some doors that won't open unless you massacre packs of 'helpless' mercenaries.

Shepard should obviously abort any mission where it is neccessary to shoot back. To take any other action is horrible, simply unforgivable....

Unless of course Shepard is an invincible supersoldier because of the willingness and skill to shoot back.....and even to shoot first, when the situation warrants it.

Was she part of the mission? She was hiding behind a desk whimpering in a room. Was she pinning Shepard down? Heck, Shepard's mission was to get information from the eclipse, not kill them all. He's just really lucky the information was on a datapad. I can imagine the conversation otherwise: 

"Did you get the information from Eclipse?"
"Um... no, sorry, I killed them all."
"There was no opportunity to question any?"
"Oh sure, one was alone and scared and looked like she wanted to surrender but she was pointing a gun at me and if she would have emptied two or three clips into my shields she might have hurt me so I had to kill her."

The fact remain . You're in a combat zone . You enter a room and you meet with a merc.She's holding a gun and pull up his arms .If it's was your life on the line .. You would do nothing?

You don't do it because you know Shepard can't die ... because of the cutscene before.Because Shepard can see through wall.Because of his X-ray.If i'm in a warzone and meet someone with a gun  but i have the advatage and he seem nervous and scared.I'm going to him to drop his weapons.if he pull it up .. I'm not taking chance.Even if i'm wearing a super soldier outfit and he's nude.

[inversevideo]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mine kills only when necessary, and didn't deem this a necessary time.

I respect this. Your Shepard comes down on the side of preserving life, and will go the extra step, even with a merc. Fair enough.

My Shep is the type of Spectre that will do what is appropriate to acheive her mission. So no, she will not willingly kill 3 floors of innocent people to reach a target; but she also will not shirk from executing dangerous people, to protect herself, her crew, or innocents.  She is comfortable with making hard choices, but not cruel ones, or choices that could have dangerous ramifications

So Elnora, it seems to come down to a judgement call of what is a necessary action to take.
Honestly? Comfortable doing the Renegade thing here.

Modifié par inversevideo, 23 septembre 2010 - 03:50 .

[Agamo45]

No one shoots Commander Shepard and gets away with it.

[Whatever42]

Suprez30 wrote...
The fact remain . You're in a combat zone . You enter a room and you meet with a merc.She's holding a gun and pull up his arms .If it's was your life on the line .. You would do nothing?

You don't do it because you know Shepard can't die ... because of the cutscene before.Because Shepard can see through wall.Because of his X-ray.If i'm in a warzone and meet someone with a gun  but i have the advatage and he seem nervous and scared.I'm going to him to drop his weapons.if he pull it up .. I'm not taking chance.Even if i'm wearing a super soldier outfit and he's nude.

The fact remains that you are walking into that whole warzone to get information from eclipse. You are facing down a hundred mercenaries to find out the name of a single ship. So you would take zero chance to question one? Shepard is such a pathetic wimp that he can't face down one lightly armed eclipse without wetting himself? This is the guy who mopped the floor with spectres and reapers but one scared mercenary makes him so nervous that its best to shoot first and ask questions later?

My Shepard has more nerve than that.

[Arijharn]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
The fact remain . You're in a combat zone . You enter a room and you meet with a merc.She's holding a gun and pull up his arms .If it's was your life on the line .. You would do nothing?

You don't do it because you know Shepard can't die ... because of the cutscene before.Because Shepard can see through wall.Because of his X-ray.If i'm in a warzone and meet someone with a gun  but i have the advatage and he seem nervous and scared.I'm going to him to drop his weapons.if he pull it up .. I'm not taking chance.Even if i'm wearing a super soldier outfit and he's nude.

The fact remains that you are walking into that whole warzone to get information from eclipse. You are facing down a hundred mercenaries to find out the name of a single ship. So you would take zero chance to question one? Shepard is such a pathetic wimp that he can't face down one lightly armed eclipse without wetting himself? This is the guy who mopped the floor with spectres and reapers but one scared mercenary makes him so nervous that its best to shoot first and ask questions later?

My Shepard has more nerve than that.

An interest in self-preservation does not make a you a coward imo.

[Whatever42]

Arijharn wrote...

An interest in self-preservation does not make a you a coward imo.

If you are that interested in self-preservation, why are you even there? People are shooting at you! You could just, like, go away and be safe. Heck, you don't need to go there. You have better places to be, like saving the galaxy from the collectors!

However, you want Samara to like you so you're going to shake down the Eclipse for information. Because a hundred armed mercs don't even make you sweat. So when you finally have a chance to ask questions, one lone, lightly armed mercenary that was trying to hide from you is so threatening that you forget your goal of information and have to gun her down? 

So not interested in self-preservation before but suddenly consumed with self-preservation now? It is a bit of a paradox.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 23 septembre 2010 - 04:24 .

[JJ Long]

Optimystic_X wrote...

inversevideo wrote...
Which is why I think you don't wait to see what she is going to do.
When she pulls the gun, after pleading with you, it seems like she was trying to catch you off guard; else why pull the gun?  I have no problem taking the Renegade action of putting my safety and that of my squad first.  I don't see the logic in assuming she won't fire, won't end up hurting one of us, or that my shields can take it, so 'man up'.

So you killed Wrex then? And knocked out Telon?

Different situations.  To even compare them is ridiculous.

[Arijharn]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

An interest in self-preservation does not make a you a coward imo.

If you are that interested in self-preservation, why are you even there? People are shooting at you! You could just, like, go away and be safe. Heck, you don't need to go there. You have better places to be, like saving the galaxy from the collectors!

However, you want Samara to like you so you're going to shake down the Eclipse for information. Because a hundred armed mercs don't even make you sweat. So when you finally have a chance to ask questions, one lone, lightly armed mercenary that was trying to hide from you is so threatening that you forget your goal of information and have to gun her down? 

So not interested in self-preservation before but suddenly consumed with self-preservation now? It is a bit of a paradox.

Wake up. Just because I do what I have to do doesn't mean that I have to take risks that I don't have too. Unless you actually are a soldier and are totally okay with just letting people quick draw you I doubt you'd have the same 'morality.'

In the end, it depends on whether you play doing as many Paragon responses you can, you play as many Renegade responses you can or you act how you would act in real life.

Since I play as if I was Commander Shephard in real life, I think the idea of not shooting someone who breaks their own surrender (and in context of what Elnora does) to be the pinnacle of stupidity. So much so that you deserve to be shot to death because you'd be doing Darwin and our species a favour by removing yourself from humanity's collective gene pool.

If you are also playing as if you're Commander Shephard and you still take the response you do, then I guess my argument might strike a bit closer to home.

[Xilizhra]

Since this never seems to sink into anyone's mind, I shall reiterate: pragmatically shooting Elnora the instant she draws her gun is not an option. What you do is give an action-movie "You're going to die" one-liner before giving her the chance to shoot you. In terms of pragmatism, the Renegade option has objectively worse results when it comes to the potential of bodily harm for Shepard.

[Whatever42]

Arijharn wrote...
Wake up. Just because I do what I have to do doesn't mean that I have to take risks that I don't have too. Unless you actually are a soldier and are totally okay with just letting people quick draw you I doubt you'd have the same 'morality.'

In the end, it depends on whether you play doing as many Paragon responses you can, you play as many Renegade responses you can or you act how you would act in real life.

Since I play as if I was Commander Shephard in real life, I think the idea of not shooting someone who breaks their own surrender (and in context of what Elnora does) to be the pinnacle of stupidity. So much so that you deserve to be shot to death because you'd be doing Darwin and our species a favour by removing yourself from humanity's collective gene pool.

If you are also playing as if you're Commander Shephard and you still take the response you do, then I guess my argument might strike a bit closer to home.

I play renegade mostly. But Shepard is not some street cop or foot soldier. He is an action hero. He is 007. He the best special forces soldier in the world, cyberneticlly enhanced, armed to the teeth, with shields that can take a couple hits from a missile launcher. Standing with me are two of the most fearsome killers in the galaxy. We just waded through a dozen eclipse like they were nothing. We are here facing down a hundred more because we know they pose almost no risk to us. 

But if you want to shoot her down because you think she's stupid or you like killing mercs or mercs in general are evil then I can accept that 100%. I just can't accept that anyone would think Shepard was acting because he was seriously afraid of suffering any harm like he was some chump. But if you do gun her down for those reasons, without trying to extract information from her, I think you're letting your bloodlust interfere with your mission.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 23 septembre 2010 - 04:50 .

[Whatever42]

Xilizhra wrote...

Since this never seems to sink into anyone's mind, I shall reiterate: pragmatically shooting Elnora the instant she draws her gun is not an option. What you do is give an action-movie "You're going to die" one-liner before giving her the chance to shoot you. In terms of pragmatism, the Renegade option has objectively worse results when it comes to the potential of bodily harm for Shepard.

Good point. Its definitely an execution, not self-defense.