528 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

she has no issue killing the Volus, yes, the Volus was a swindler BUT all eclipse merchs get their uniform by committing a murder, that her murder happened to be perpetrated against another criminal is just coincidental. You have no idea wether or not she would have objected to kill the chief inspector or Samara (if she had the chance).

Indeed I don't. Which is one reason I don't think she deserves to die.

She speaks of the murder with pride, boasting her superiority to the Volus and the fact she ambushed him and that her friends will be sooooooo jealous. Also, the murder happened only the night prior, the AML Demeter left before the murder, Elnore knew of the Ardat Yakshi being smuggled BEFORE being sent on her firt hit and she did it anyways which means she only started caring about that when Shepard pointed a gun to her face (to me at least).

I hope this isn't actually true, because if it is, it's a really annoying plot hole. Why the hell would Wasea let an untested potential recruit--an asari recruit, at that--know that they were involved in smuggling an Ardat-Yakshi? It would be an enormous security risk; she could have run at any time.

I don't think she really cared who she ended up shooting. She certainly didn't balk at blowing Dakni Kur's suit open, nor show any signs of remorse afterward.

Again, selling mislabeled poison.

When you take the interrupt she goes agressive rather than pleading, so I´m not certain if she had realized what she had gotten into or it was just an act to get out when she realized Shepard was way out of her league.

I think she freaks out a bit upon figuring out that death is imminent.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2010 - 06:45 .

[MrnDvlDg161]

"Wow, that's a very "take no prisoners!" way to look at it, and needlessly bloody. She obviously hadn't been shooting at you, since she was hiding in that room, and she leaves her weapon and runs if you let her go. She obviously isn't a threat to you at that point, so unless you have metagame knowledge or choose to judge her for doing the same types of things you do (for different reasons), there's no reason to kill her."

We are all metagaming then at this point to give our own conclusions. She can just as easily be the same person sighting you down later, gladly knowing you let her go to fight another day.

This can go in circles.

And... if you do the Renegade option... what does she do then? Does she yell " Ahhhh --- help me!" and put her hands? Nope --- she says You bastards...and something about going to hell. Well... in comes the real woman does it not? That whole Mother Theresa presumption flies out the window...not to mention the fact that her eyes gleefully dart to her weapon when you do enter the room.

In that situation, the luxury is gone concerning the who and the what --- could have been a ruse, she could have been behaving like an injured kitten when really she's a black widow. That is the point of choice! --- just so happens it doesn't seem so bad cocerning Shepard...but what about later? In ME3 for instance, she may become a worse Merc that she was now...thats the beauty of not knowing!

Cut buds where they may so the problem doesn't turn into the man-eating plant in the corner later.

Different view points --- I respect someone who believes she may have been some lost angel amongst the brutal forces of Merc politics... I on the other hand view her as a snake in the grass that pulls a good act when preservation came.

Modifié par MrnDvlDg161, 21 septembre 2010 - 06:51 .

[PsyrenY]

Xilizhra wrote...

I hope this isn't actually true, because if it is, it's a really annoying plot hole. Why the hell would Wasea let an untested potential recruit--an asari recruit, at that--know that they were involved in smuggling an Ardat-Yakshi? It would be an enormous security risk; she could have run at any time.

I doubt there was an Eclipse Sister within 50 miles that wasn't aware of Morinth's nature, whether through gossip, eavesdropping, simply being able to sense her, or some combination of the above. Wasea wouldn't have had to slap an "ARDAT-YAKSHI ON BOARD" bumper sticker on the Demeter.

Xilizhra wrote...
Again, selling mislabeled poison.

What? I have no idea what this means.

[Xilizhra]

And... if you do the Renegade option... what does she do then? Does she yell " Ahhhh --- help me!" and put her hands? Nope --- she says You bastards...and something about going to hell. Well... in comes the real woman does it not? That whole Mother Theresa presumption flies out the window...not to mention the fact that her eyes gleefully dart to her weapon when you do enter the room.

First of all, I'm pretty sure her expression wasn't gleeful. Second, I never said she was nice, and third, she's rather desperate at the time and probably thinks that she just might be able to take you down with her, since you intend to kill her and all. Oh, and I seriously doubt a rookie merc with no teammates will end up as a man-eating plant.

I doubt there was an Eclipse Sister within 50 miles that wasn't aware of Morinth's nature, whether through gossip, eavesdropping, simply being able to sense her, or some combination of the above. Wasea wouldn't have had to slap an "ARDAT-YAKSHI ON BOARD" bumper sticker on the Demeter.

Actually, now I get it. Wasea probably told Elnora after she officially joined; Elnora specifically says that Wasea said so. Elnora met Morinth earlier, calling her "scary," but clearly didn't know her true nature then.

What? I have no idea what this means.

It was in my first post. The volus in question was selling them a drug that enhanced biotic powers but also acted as a lethal poison in large quantities, and failed to mention the second part. He himself would have been a murderer if Eclipse hadn't figured it out.

[wizardryforever]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

And... if you do the Renegade option... what does she do then? Does she yell " Ahhhh --- help me!" and put her hands? Nope --- she says You bastards...and something about going to hell. Well... in comes the real woman does it not? That whole Mother Theresa presumption flies out the window...not to mention the fact that her eyes gleefully dart to her weapon when you do enter the room.

In that situation, the luxury is gone concerning the who and the what --- could have been a ruse, she could have been behaving like an injured kitten when really she's a black widow. That is the point of choice! --- just so happens it doesn't seem so bad cocerning Shepard...but what about later? In ME3 for instance, she may become a worse Merc that she was now...thats the beauty of not knowing!

Cut buds where they may so the problem doesn't turn into the man-eating plant in the corner later.

Different view points --- I respect someone who believes she may have been some lost angel amongst the brutal forces of Merc politics... I on the other hand view her as a snake in the grass that pulls a good act when preservation came.

At that point, Shepard has made it clear that he/she is going to kill her, so it more a matter of having nothing left to lose and displaying one last act of defiance.  She's obviously afraid of Shepard regardless of what option you choose, and fearfully glances to her gun at first, then decides against it.  If she was a threat, she would have taken the shot before you even knew she was there, or when you're back was turned.  Is she a bad person for being with the Eclipse?  Does killing the volus make her a murderer?  It's all in how you look at it.  But regardless, she is not a threat, nor could she be without any support.  And when you do find the evidence and turn it over to the detective, she'll probably be arrested and put in prison, making her a non-threat to the very end.

[MrnDvlDg161]

wizardryforever wrote...

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

And... if you do the Renegade option... what does she do then? Does she yell " Ahhhh --- help me!" and put her hands? Nope --- she says You bastards...and something about going to hell. Well... in comes the real woman does it not? That whole Mother Theresa presumption flies out the window...not to mention the fact that her eyes gleefully dart to her weapon when you do enter the room.

In that situation, the luxury is gone concerning the who and the what --- could have been a ruse, she could have been behaving like an injured kitten when really she's a black widow. That is the point of choice! --- just so happens it doesn't seem so bad cocerning Shepard...but what about later? In ME3 for instance, she may become a worse Merc that she was now...thats the beauty of not knowing!

Cut buds where they may so the problem doesn't turn into the man-eating plant in the corner later.

Different view points --- I respect someone who believes she may have been some lost angel amongst the brutal forces of Merc politics... I on the other hand view her as a snake in the grass that pulls a good act when preservation came.

At that point, Shepard has made it clear that he/she is going to kill her, so it more a matter of having nothing left to lose and displaying one last act of defiance.  She's obviously afraid of Shepard regardless of what option you choose, and fearfully glances to her gun at first, then decides against it.  If she was a threat, she would have taken the shot before you even knew she was there, or when you're back was turned.  Is she a bad person for being with the Eclipse?  Does killing the volus make her a murderer?  It's all in how you look at it.  But regardless, she is not a threat, nor could she be without any support.  And when you do find the evidence and turn it over to the detective, she'll probably be arrested and put in prison, making her a non-threat to the very end.

Oh I can pick a part this paragraph easily with these questions with more questions --- to cut down on this ongoing essay ... your free to believe what you wish as do I. If she is a victim to you then let her be a victim. I on the other hand have closed the book to a poorly preparied Merc whose vision of adventure lead her to her death because she failed to consider her actions would have consequences and a possible bloody end.

A coward too on top of it, hiding from the scary noises of combat when she thought it funny to pick off a Volus in a dark ally. You act like and adult with a weapon then meet your end like one...or drop the gun and shed the armor. I would say the spent heat clip was a good one.

[Xilizhra]

Fair enough, so long as you remember that you yourself are a murderer.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Xilizhra wrote...

Fair enough, so long as you remember that you yourself are a murderer.

By a presumtion upon your idea which wouldn't bare much weight on my behalf so no --- there wouldn't be a remeberance of any sort involving someone as a murderer.

Its called being smart and going home at the end of the day than the dead mean who seond guesses and becomes a bygone tale over drinks in some unnamed bar full of those who knew or didn't know him.

[Whatever42]

Xilizhra wrote...

Fair enough, so long as you remember that you yourself are a murderer.

By standard ethical systems, absolutely. However, from pure renegade's shep's point of view, he has the moral authority to kill anyone who is even a remote threat because of his mission. I think these would be taking that to the extreme but paragon Shep also has actions that take things to extreme - ethical perhaps but very very dumb.

[Xilizhra]

ffft

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:23 .

[Xilizhra]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fair enough, so long as you remember that you yourself are a murderer.

By a presumtion upon your idea which wouldn't bare much weight on my behalf so no --- there wouldn't be a remeberance of any sort involving someone as a murderer.

Its called being smart and going home at the end of the day than the dead mean who seond guesses and becomes a bygone tale over drinks in some unnamed bar full of those who knew or didn't know him.

You do know that Elnora is no danger to Shepard, yes?

[MrnDvlDg161]

Xilizhra wrote...

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fair enough, so long as you remember that you yourself are a murderer.

By a presumtion upon your idea which wouldn't bare much weight on my behalf so no --- there wouldn't be a remeberance of any sort involving someone as a murderer.

Its called being smart and going home at the end of the day than the dead mean who seond guesses and becomes a bygone tale over drinks in some unnamed bar full of those who knew or didn't know him.

You do know that Elnora is no danger to Shepard, yes?


I disagree, I belive she very well could/could've been --- however I really know she won't be because she is no more --- so yes I agree with you on that point. She's isn't.

[Xilizhra]

So you are a murderer, then. Enjoy, presumably.

[Terraneaux]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I think she's a jerk, but I still think outright blowing her away as a Paragon is metagaming.

The writers didn't give you a way to solve the problem without metagaming, in fact.  Then you hear a gloating message from her - it's like a bad DM saying 'ha ha got you.'  I'm assuming that Samara's recruitment mission was written by the guy who designed Samara herself, it explains the ridiculous non-choice your character is offered.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Xilizhra wrote...

So you are a murderer, then. Enjoy, presumably.

Again --- in your theory. If your Shepard has an apparent death wish and opens up room for possible danger for the people underneath him/her, I guess it would add more juice to his/her story, so yes --- enjoy! 

But you forgot to add that as she is dead, she isn't a threat in that regard ---wooops --- I meant not a threat for mine.

Modifié par MrnDvlDg161, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:37 .

[DTKT]

I would have arrested her.



When I understood that she had lied to me, I really wanted to shoot her.

[Nyaore]

I personally always pegged Elnora as someone who was way in over their head at the time you run across her in the story, and who might not have consciously been aware of the implications that her actions might have had. To her being in the Eclipse Sisters is akin to a status symbol, something she can lord over her friends whenever she wishes as a way of elevating her standing in their eyes. I don't really think she understands what she is doing by being a part of that organization - at the moment at least. Whether or not she comes to grasp the situation at a later point and continues to murder people or chooses to go straight, however, is up for debate.

Regardless of that fact however, most of my Shepards tend to shot her as soon as she raises her gun up the second time during the conversation. Naive or not, you should never raise your gun up at someone when you're begging for your life. Each of those Shepards perceived that action as a direct threat, especially in regards to what the officer tells them about how the Eclipse Sisters earn their uniforms, and hold very little remorse for ending the Asari's life. Had the situations been reversed, I very much doubt that Elnora wouldn't have done the same thing if given half the chance. Hell, from what I heard on the recording I very much doubt she'd have even bothered talking to us in the first place if we begged for our lives. She's still new to the killing business, and probably would have gotten a thrill out of it before the weight of her actions had a chance to settle in.

Modifié par Nyaore, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[MrnDvlDg161]

DTKT wrote...

I would have arrested her.

When I understood that she had lied to me, I really wanted to shoot her.

And thus the Paragon ends up being a Renegade option too.

So how many more easy targets will now be shot in the middle of the night within dark alleyways because the generous version of Shepard wanted to find the Mr. Rodgers in the situation?

Horrible turn of events indeed.

[MrnDvlDg161]

...but you see how layered the Mass Effect series is? Its like an onion of possibilities and each player has a certain idea of each one. I don't think anyone should say that Video Games are not an art --- this series makes it so.

[Xilizhra]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

I would have arrested her.

When I understood that she had lied to me, I really wanted to shoot her.

And thus the Paragon ends up being a Renegade option too.

So how many more easy targets will now be shot in the middle of the night within dark alleyways because the generous version of Shepard wanted to find the Mr. Rodgers in the situation?

Horrible turn of events indeed.

I find this highly unlikely, especially when you consider that Shepard's killed every single other Eclipse in Nos Astra.

Had the situations been reversed, I very much doubt that Elnora wouldn't have done the same thing if given half the chance. Hell, from what I heard on the recording I very much doubt she'd have even bothered talking to us in the first place if we begged for our lives. She's still new to the killing business, and probably would have gotten a thrill out of it before the weight of her actions had a chance to settle in.

This is why Shepard, for now, is better than Elnora.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Talogrungi]

I view her as an enemy combatant and usually end her when she makes what I perceive as an aggressive movement.

Might be considered harsh by some; but better she lies dead on the tile than I do.

[Xilizhra]

Talogrungi wrote...

I view her as an enemy combatant and usually end her when she makes what I perceive as an aggressive movement.

Might be considered harsh by some; but better she lies dead on the tile than I do.

You know, it's not like you don't bring your weapon up to defend yourself if you don't take the Renegade interrupt... you just take the time to say that you're going to kill her. Also, she in fact does shoot you if you take the interrupt, and it does nothing.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[MrnDvlDg161]

Talogrungi wrote...

I view her as an enemy combatant and usually end her when she makes what I perceive as an aggressive movement.

Might be considered harsh by some; but better she lies dead on the tile than I do.

Ditto

[MrnDvlDg161]

Xilizhra wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

I view her as an enemy combatant and usually end her when she makes what I perceive as an aggressive movement.

Might be considered harsh by some; but better she lies dead on the tile than I do.

You know, it's not like you don't bring your weapon up to defend yourself if you don't take the Renegade interrupt... you just take the time to say that you're going to kill her. Also, she in fact does shoot you if you take the interrupt, and it does nothing.

This is due to an inaccurate part of the game.  How many times did you see where characters could be shot once with a pistol during cut scenes  (  in ME1 ---  as powerful as Wrex was... he was shot dead real quick with one hit by Ashley...at least in my game). In theory it should have happened to Shepard if he got hit but it didn't...though Shepard can easily take out invidiuals with his pistol as well during off-game cut scenes.

[Xilizhra]

This is due to an inaccurate part of the game. How many times did you see where characters could be shot once with a pistol during cut scenes ( in ME1 --- as powerful as Wrex was... he was shot dead real quick with one hit by Ashley...at least in my game). In theory it should have happened to Shepard if he got hit but it didn't...though Shepard can easily take out invidiuals with his pistol as well during off-game cut scenes.

I think that if you're close enough, your gun will fire inside the target's shields, thus killing them instantly if it's a headshot. Wrex, since they weren't in a combat situation, probably had his shields down.