528 réponses à ce sujet

[Markinator_123]

0mar wrote...

Wearing enemy colors and has a gun. That's a trip to the morgue. Elnora is just a case of "too stupid to live."

The more problematic moral quandry is whether or not to kill the asari scientist on Virmire in ME1.  I never regretted popping her in the face either, but it made me pause for a bit before executing her.

I popped her too. I like how she is begging for her life right before you pull the trigger.

[Terraneaux]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

The writers didn't give you a way to solve the problem without metagaming, in fact.  Then you hear a gloating message from her - it's like a bad DM saying 'ha ha got you.'  I'm assuming that Samara's recruitment mission was written by the guy who designed Samara herself, it explains the ridiculous non-choice your character is offered.

You are operating under the assumption that all problems presented in ME2 must be solved in ME2. Nassana Dantius has proven that this is not necessarily the case.

Did your "paragon" also let the factory workers die to stop Vido Santiago, simply because he gets no comeuppance in this game?

No.  In fact, my Paragon let Elnora live, simply because she asked to surrender.  Of course, objectively it was the wrong decision, but my character had no way of knowing that at the time.  The writer was trying way too hard to make it a 'gotcha' moment.  And if Elnora shows up in ME3, I'll eat my hat.  

[AntiChri5]

I cant believe people are actually saying she isnt a threat. All someone needs to be a threat is a gun. It only takes one bullet.



She is an an Eclipse base, in an Eclipse uniform and reaches for a weapon while you are negotiating her surrender.



A soldeir can not be faulted for shooting an enemy combatant who pulls a gun during negotiations.

[The Big Nothing]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...


"It's interesting, and also misleading. The audio file is the last impression you get of Elnora, and thus may be the one that sticks most in the players' minds, despite the fact that it's the past Elnora and not the current one."

So in some magic wand like manner, the audio of her somehow doesn't concern the current Elnora because....

...she was caught unprepared and then decided to see if she could save her own self?

I call that self-preservation to kill another day.

I call that meta-gaming.

[horacethegrey]

Had Elnora dropped her gun and surrendered peacefully I would have spared her. But she then does  the stupid thing and pulls a gun on you, so naturally I shoot. Yeah harsh, but you're eliminating a potential threat and keeping your squad safe. Nothing wrong with that. 

I also find her sparing her and letting her go incredibly stupid of Shepard. Detective Anaya already told you what the Eclipse sisters do to earn that uniform, so you just allowed a murderer and a future threat to go scott free. Finding her audio journal just reinforces how much you've been had. 

[wizardryforever]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I cant believe people are actually saying she isnt a threat. All someone needs to be a threat is a gun. It only takes one bullet.

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.

Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:52 .

[PsyrenY]

Terraneaux wrote...

No.  In fact, my Paragon let Elnora live, simply because she asked to surrender.  Of course, objectively it was the wrong decision, but my character had no way of knowing that at the time.  The writer was trying way too hard to make it a 'gotcha' moment.  And if Elnora shows up in ME3, I'll eat my hat.  

Bookmarked.

Keep in mind, that a good DM and a good writer have a great deal in common; occasionally they will set you up for a fall, but that only adds to the satisfaction when you win later.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:03 .

[0mar]

wizardryforever wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

I cant believe people are actually saying she isnt a threat. All someone needs to be a threat is a gun. It only takes one bullet.

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.

Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

You have a really bad definition of no threat.  Just about every enemy is a rookie compared to Shepard.  She's wearing enemy colors, she has a gun.  You have no remorse for the 20 or so mercs you gunned down right before meeting Elnora.  Just because she has a name doesn't mean she's important.

[Moiaussi]

The Big Nothing wrote...

I call that meta-gaming.

If that information was used in advance, it is metagaming. Otherwise it is confirmation of good instincts.

[Moiaussi]

wizardryforever wrote...

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.

Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

Sheilds? Those things that are ignored completely in so many other cut scenes where either Shepard or someone else one-shots someone with a weapon that should not be capable of doing so? We are supposed to rely on those shields?

[wizardryforever]

0mar wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

I cant believe people are actually saying she isnt a threat. All someone needs to be a threat is a gun. It only takes one bullet.

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.

Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

You have a really bad definition of no threat.  Just about every enemy is a rookie compared to Shepard.  She's wearing enemy colors, she has a gun.  You have no remorse for the 20 or so mercs you gunned down right before meeting Elnora.  Just because she has a name doesn't mean she's important.

She's a rookie compared to the other mercs and anybody with any experience whatsoever, so she is a rookie.  The other mercs fired first and attacked en masse, they didn't cower in a room and offer to surrender.  That's the huge difference here.  Did you even read my post or just the first sentence?

[wizardryforever]

Moiaussi wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.

Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

Sheilds? Those things that are ignored completely in so many other cut scenes where either Shepard or someone else one-shots someone with a weapon that should not be capable of doing so? We are supposed to rely on those shields?

Come on, if we're going to cite previous cutscenes as proof here, then how about the fact that Bioware would not let Shepard die in a cutscene with a trivial enemy?  Seriously, metagame arguments are silly when trying to back up an in-game decision.

[0mar]

wizardryforever wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.

Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

Sheilds? Those things that are ignored completely in so many other cut scenes where either Shepard or someone else one-shots someone with a weapon that should not be capable of doing so? We are supposed to rely on those shields?

Come on, if we're going to cite previous cutscenes as proof here, then how about the fact that Bioware would not let Shepard die in a cutscene with a trivial enemy?  Seriously, metagame arguments are silly when trying to back up an in-game decision.

It's not metagaming.  She picks up a gun at you and aims.  That's a trip to the morgue.  On my very first playthrough, Elnora got wasted because of a dumb move like that.  You're just trying to justify letting her go on some obscure and frankly wrong points.

[Moiaussi]

wizardryforever wrote...

Come on, if we're going to cite previous cutscenes as proof here, then how about the fact that Bioware would not let Shepard die in a cutscene with a trivial enemy?  Seriously, metagame arguments are silly when trying to back up an in-game decision.

Pardon, but how is 'the gun is not a threat because we have shields' not metagaming in itself? My point is that the other deaths I cited were past tense. Shepard knows about them. He pulled the trigger on some of them. It isn't metagaming to use information that character knows.

[wizardryforever]

0mar wrote...

It's not metagaming.  She picks up a gun at you and aims.  That's a trip to the morgue.  On my very first playthrough, Elnora got wasted because of a dumb move like that.  You're just trying to justify letting her go on some obscure and frankly wrong points.

You know you are referencing the wrong post, right?  I'm not saying your point was metagaming, the other guy was doing that.  You might want to read the one where I addressed you if you are going to rebut me with no evidence other than "you're wrong."

[xxprokillazxx]

the only cool thing that happens if you spare her is that she gives you info on the ardat yakshi and you can tell it to samara and she will be impressed with you.

[wizardryforever]

Moiaussi wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Come on, if we're going to cite previous cutscenes as proof here, then how about the fact that Bioware would not let Shepard die in a cutscene with a trivial enemy?  Seriously, metagame arguments are silly when trying to back up an in-game decision.

Pardon, but how is 'the gun is not a threat because we have shields' not metagaming in itself? My point is that the other deaths I cited were past tense. Shepard knows about them. He pulled the trigger on some of them. It isn't metagaming to use information that character knows.

This is indeed metagaming when you consider the fact that cutscene powers are exaggerated almost all the time.  But only if said person is an ally, which only backs up the fact that Shepard would not die from a lone Eclipse merc, and definitely not in one shot.

See this Cutscene Power To The Max

[AntiChri5]

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.



Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

Your points would only be valid if the shields were indistructable.



All she needs to do overload is an omni tool, or she could throw a grenade, or pull one of those explosive cannisters into you and then take the shot.



Someone with a gun is always a serious threat, and should be treated as such........unless of coirse you are sitting back on the couch and there is absolutely no risk to you or anybody who is actually alive.

[XCPTNL]

Every time I'm at that point in the game I think to myself "hey, spare her and ask her to tell you why she is holding that tempest like a shotgun and manages to only shoot 1 bullet with it. maybe it's a mod I need to get for that weapon". Then I remember that you can't ask her this so I decide to shoot her.

[wizardryforever]

AntiChri5 wrote...

She's one person, obviously a rookie, and clearly scared to death of Shepard and crew.  She's not a threat because even if she unloaded on you, you could overwhelm her while she hit your shields.  Yeah, shields, remember those?  This isn't real world, modern day setting here, it takes more than one shot to damage someone wearing combat armor.  Even if she was a threat, she would be an idiot to face down three armed commandos in close quarters with no help.  Come on, she is NOT a threat.

Thus, it does no harm to hear her out before gunning her down if her answer does not satisfy.

Your points would only be valid if the shields were indistructable.

All she needs to do overload is an omni tool, or she could throw a grenade, or pull one of those explosive cannisters into you and then take the shot.

Someone with a gun is always a serious threat, and should be treated as such........unless of coirse you are sitting back on the couch and there is absolutely no risk to you or anybody who is actually alive.

If she had done any of that I would have pulled the trigger immediately, since guns aren't as deadly by default in Mass Effect.  Besides, that kind of thing takes a bit longer to do than draw a gun, giving me the time to gun her down if I had to.  Hence the not a threat thing.  It seems like people are trying their very best to portray her as a threat so that they can justify gunning her down while she's all by herself and hasn't even threatened you directly.

Besides, what if she had been the only way to get the ship name?  You'd never know if you gunned her down.  Enemies that can be taken alive are generally more useful than dead ones.  But like I said, most of this is all perspective, I just find the argument "because she's a threat" to be bogus.  If you kill her because of her Eclipse uniform, then I can understand that, but I stand by my argument.

[AlexMBrennan]

Detective Anaya already told you what the Eclipse sisters do to earn that uniform

The volus selling the illegal chemical tells you that Eclipse have to kill to earn the uniform - but he would benefit from the death of any Eclipse member involved in the transaction.

Anaya only says that "Eclipse are killers". That does not necessarily mean that any given Eclipse mercenary has killed someone.

[AntiChri5]

If she had done any of that I would have pulled the trigger immediately, since guns aren't as deadly by default in Mass Effect.  Besides, that kind of thing takes a bit longer to do than draw a gun, giving me the time to gun her down if I had to.  Hence the not a threat thing.  It seems like people are trying their very best to portray her as a threat so that they can justify gunning her down while she's all by herself and hasn't even threatened you directly.



Besides, what if she had been the only way to get the ship name?  You'd never know if you gunned her down.  Enemies that can be taken alive are generally more useful than dead ones.  But like I said, most of this is all perspective, I just find the argument "because she's a threat" to be bogus.  If you kill her because of her Eclipse uniform, then I can understand that, but I stand by my argument.

Have you played LotSB yet? Liara shows how effective surprise biotics can be. All Elnora has to do is grab one of those explosive containers behind you, pull it then "bam". She does threaten you directly. She points a gun at you.



Anyone who doesnt take that as a serious threat doesnt deserve to be a commander. Your entire point is that there is no way that she could harm you. That simply isnt true.



Generally, the moment you stop treating every gun in your face as a serious threat is the moment you die.



Besides which, i do try to take her alive. In the middle of negotiating her surrender she reaches for a gun. Am i supposed to let her? Of course not.

[PsyrenY]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Generally, the moment you stop treating every gun in your face as a serious threat is the moment you die.

So your Paragon took the renegade interrupt on Thane's recruitment when the Salarian aimed a gun at you then?

[wizardryforever]

AntiChri5 wrote...
Besides which, i do try to take her alive. In the middle of negotiating her surrender she reaches for a gun. Am i supposed to let her? Of course not.

You obviously didn't try very hard, since you gunned her down for some slight movement.  Again, there is no single Eclipse mercenary that could kill Shepard that easily, it takes more than just having a gun to kill someone.  It also takes will and intent, something Elnora clearly doesn't have, or she would have shot at you earlier with the rest of the Eclipse.  And as far as I can tell, biotic fields give off a blue glow, regardless of what is being done.  Any biotic field would have been much more threatening than a halfhearted gunpoint.

[AntiChri5]

[quote]So your Paragon took the renegade interrupt on Thane's recruitment when the Salarian aimed a gun at you then?[/quote]



I have six characters, all of vavying degrees or Para/Ren. Most do.



[quote]You obviously didn't try very hard, since you gunned her down for some slight movement.  Again, there is no single Eclipse mercenary that could kill Shepard that easily, it takes more than just having a gun to kill someone.  It also takes will and intent, something Elnora clearly doesn't have, or she would have shot at you earlier with the rest of the Eclipse.  And as far as I can tell, biotic fields give off a blue glow, regardless of what is being done.  Any biotic field would have been much more threatening than a halfhearted gunpoint.[quote]



Yes, i did, reaching for a gun shows she isnt all thqt interested in surrender. It takes nothing more than having a gun to kill someone. All it takes is to pull a trigger. That is all it can take. Besides, even a rat will lash out when cornered. It is possible to create a biotic field without someone pointing a gun at you noticing. LotSB proves this.