87 réponses à ce sujet

[008Zulu]

I support the Mainframe idea, seems to be the most logical. The Geth use a similar system, necessity is the mother of invention after all. My theory is that the Mainframe is the Citadel station the Reapers use as a Mass Relay that connects to the Citadel in our galaxy.

[krimesh]

^^
Yeah, in combination with how Klendagon turned out, you have a very strong point there. But still, that Leviathan thing might have just been another derelict Reaper; in any case it raises questions about what the Batarians have been doing with whatever it was.
The other one though makes me remember Wrex talking about that Volus freighter he saw Saren on. I have always wondered about that. If this freighter is connected to Klencory, than there really might be, or might have been something there.

008Zulu wrote...
I support the Mainframe idea, seems to be the most logical. The Geth use a similar system, necessity is the mother of invention after all. My theory is that the Mainframe is the Citadel station the Reapers use as a Mass Relay that connects to the Citadel in our galaxy.

The Geth run themselves in large hardware and use a lot of networking because every individual one was created limited by the quarians. By having many Geth-runtimes in one platform they gain complexity. A Reaper seems to be quite capable on it's own, so having a mainframe is no necessity for them. They might still have one though.

Besides, if the Citadel is the mainframe, how come they can't turn it on then? Kinda odd if you can't use your brain, because the bugs that are supposed to press the on-button have gone rouge.

Modifié par krimesh, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:03 .

[Tyrael02]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Tyrael02 wrote...

each a nation, independent, free of all weakness.... so why the hell do they help each other conquer other races... theres a giant plot hole with the reapers here. they facilitate their equivalent of reproduction by assimilating races, but sovereign says they are eternal in ME1 or something along those lines. another thing... when we get a glimpse of the reaper army massing on the galactic horizon, they all look the same/ extremely similar, why the hell did the human reaper look so different? if they absorb the characteristics of the species they use to reproduce, then shouldn't they maintain some sort of heterogeneity and not all have the typical reaper profile?

They don't all look alike, there are several different forms in the end cutscene.

Also, it's possible that they change their shape when they stop being babies.  That Reaper was dinky compared to Sovereign.

I feel like when EDI explains that they are hybrid sapeitn contructs that they are just plaster-filling a loop hole in lore in cheap fashion.... to imply that a sentient race of machines that are postualted to have existed as long as time itself have a growth process is completely counter-intuitive the way BioWare intially describes them in ME1 via sovereign. Furthermore, the human reaper embryo was immature and not even close to being complete, requiring - as EDI said - millions or billions more to complete. This is definitely a HUGE plot element BioWare has plenty of room to play on and I hope they come to a sensible conclusion in ME3 in regards to who the reapers are, why they do what they do, and what exactly their nature is.

I also think that the allegory for God as was mentioned on this thread is an interesting take on the topic, I think wthat with the way the Repears are presented they fit the archetype perfectly but still retain the malevolence required of such a presence in the mass effect universe, without implying the inherent good a species like humans would see in a Deity or Deities they worship. As Sovereign says, the repears created the technology of the mass relays and the citadel, and thus all civilizations progress in the manner they wish, and in stretching the topic slightly can be set in parallel with a Diety providing for a species it supposedly created without leaving obvious hints of its existence, if any. So ultimately, if there is a Reaper hieracrhy, who is at the top....? the mightest of them all? or are they all indeed independent? and if they are, why the hell are they uniting to destroy something infintely inferior to them, as Harbinge puts it? any thoughts?

[krimesh]

I am aware that there seem to be a lot of people who feel that the Reapers need more explanation. I am rather certain that there will be *some* of that in ME3 (albeit maybe not as much as some would like), but at the moment I for one am quite satisfied with what we have so far for the following reasons:

Both, Sovereign and Harbinger are not very subtle in expressing their superiority to the races of the galaxy. In ME1 Sovereign states calmly that the races of the galaxy will be reaped, just as it has happened many times before. What for? Well, think of what humans do today. Domesticated animals are bred, fed, killed and processed. Colonies of genetically altered bacteria or algae are left to evolve in controlled environments to produce chemicals we need. Letting sapient biological life expand quickly through a network of relays, so that it may multiply and evolve faster, to subsequently harvest it for whatever raw material the Reapers gain from it, is basically just the same thing on a larger scale.
So, as far as ME1 is concerned, the Reapers' activities are not that mysterious. They are harvesting the galaxy periodically for resources organic life is good at providing.

In ME2 Shepard finds out that at least part of what the Reapers harvest, are the organic life-forms themselves. It also becomes evident what they are need for: apparently organic life is a basic ingredient for Reaper-construction. While Sovereign was quite cold and was treating organic life like cattle not really worth it's notice, Harbinger with this "Salvation through destruction" thing, did add it's own moral to the picture (at least that's my interpretation of it): while the Reapers are superior to chaotic organic life, they are benevolent in so far that they are willing to grant the enlightenment they themselves possess to species who fit some sort of criteria: and they do this by turning them into Reapers.

[edit here]
Why should something which deems itself a god, promote others to that level? Well, why should anyone do anything? Be honest, why are you here? Because your parents had sex. Why did they have sex? Because that's what humans do. Up till now, the sole purpose of organic life on this planet has been to exist, at all. Life is nothing but a fight for existence starting from the first randomly formed molecules, 4 billion years ago. Maybe the Reapers have created a deeper purpose for existence. Or maybe it's just the same old thing in a new wrapping.
[edit ends]

While there might still be a lot more to it, to me, the Reapers make a lot of sense, with what we already know. As to who their leader is... well, do the algae we use to create meds, or the fish in a fish farm understand our social structure? Maybe a question a fish might ask about us is the wrong question to ask about humans. Likewise, maybe asking if the Reapers have a leader is a meaningless question. Who says they need one to cooperate.

Modifié par krimesh, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:40 .

[lovgreno]

It's the biggest and baddest reaper who Shepard will board and infect with the anti reaper virus he found in the Collector Base.

Seriously though the reapers don't seem very dependant on eachother so I think they will just split the galactic pizza between them before they enter the scene and then just go and do their reaping each on their own. It's just how it feels for me thus far anyway.

[Tyrael02]

krimesh wrote...

I am aware that there seem to be a lot of people who feel that the Reapers need more explanation. I am rather certain that there will be *some* of that in ME3 (albeit maybe not as much as some would like), but at the moment I for one am quite satisfied with what we have so far for the following reasons:

Both, Sovereign and Harbinger are not very subtle in expressing their superiority to the races of the galaxy. In ME1 Sovereign states calmly that the races of the galaxy will be reaped, just as it has happened many times before. What for? Well, think of what humans do today. Domesticated animals are bred, fed, killed and processed. Colonies of genetically altered bacteria or algae are left to evolve in controlled environments to produce chemicals we need. Letting sapient biological life expand quickly through a network of relays, so that it may multiply and evolve faster, to subsequently harvest it for whatever raw material the Reapers gain from it, is basically just the same thing on a larger scale.
So, as far as ME1 is concerned, the Reapers' activities are not that mysterious. They are harvesting the galaxy periodically for resources organic life is good at providing.

In ME2 Shepard finds out that at least part of what the Reapers harvest, are the organic life-forms themselves. It also becomes evident what they are need for: apparently organic life is a basic ingredient for Reaper-construction. While Sovereign was quite cold and was treating organic life like cattle not really worth it's notice, Harbinger with this "Salvation through destruction" thing, did add it's own moral to the picture (at least that's my interpretation of it): while the Reapers are superior to chaotic organic life, they are benevolent in so far that they are willing to grant the enlightenment they themselves possess to species who fit some sort of criteria: and they do this by turning them into Reapers.

[edit here]
Why should something which deems itself a god, promote others to that level? Well, why should anyone do anything? Be honest, why are you here? Because your parents had sex. Why did they have sex? Because that's what humans do. Up till now, the sole purpose of organic life on this planet has been to exist, at all. Life is nothing but a fight for existence starting from the first randomly formed molecules, 4 billion years ago. Maybe the Reapers have created a deeper purpose for existence. Or maybe it's just the same old thing in a new wrapping.
[edit ends]

While there might still be a lot more to it, to me, the Reapers make a lot of sense, with what we already know. As to who their leader is... well, do the algae we use to create meds, or the fish in a fish farm understand our social structure? Maybe a question a fish might ask about us is the wrong question to ask about humans. Likewise, maybe asking if the Reapers have a leader is a meaningless question. Who says they need one to cooperate.

in his explicit explanation of the reapers, Sovereign says they are eternal, either having always been as far as we can conceive an eternity of existence, or are eternal now that they have been born/created/been brought into existence as a sentient race. Consequently, and without the extra information we need, this implies that the reapers have achieved a state of being that requires no further input of resources or anything that will maintain of improve their so-called perfect state of existance. This does not solve any speculation or provide any insight into why they have left technology that is obviously rediculously advanced for beings that are infitely inferior. your examples on humans manipulating other species for resources is innaplicable, because we are not eternal, as reapers so claim, and we are not machines; there is a distinct and obvious line between utter destruction and manipulating a race for resources.... everything the reapers have ever done, according to information we have from ME1 and ME2 indicates that they assault the milky way to destroy organic life, the reason is entirely speculation at this point. Fish do no understand us because they are not sentient beings capable of calculus.... we can understand what the reapers will do to organic life but fish do not... there is no sentient quality to the defiance of cattle who do not want to be herded. The only thing I can say in the face of all this is that being machines implies a creator, or some rise to sentience similar to the geth. And there may not be a reaper leader, but they are obviously co-operating with Harbinger to destroy humanity when the reaper army amasses on the galactic horizon.

[Bebbe777]

The Reaper leader name is Jenova aka Big Boss

[krimesh]

Tyrael02 wrote...
in his explicit explanation of the reapers, Sovereign says they are eternal, either having always been as far as we can conceive an eternity of existence, or are eternal now that they have been born/created/been brought into existence as a sentient race. Consequently, and without the extra information we need, this implies that the reapers have achieved a state of being that requires no further input of resources or anything that will maintain of improve their so-called perfect state of existance. This does not solve any speculation or provide any insight into why they have left technology that is obviously rediculously advanced for beings that are infitely inferior. your examples on humans manipulating other species for resources is innaplicable, because we are not eternal, as reapers so claim, and we are not machines; there is a distinct and obvious line between utter destruction and manipulating a race for resources.... everything the reapers have ever done, according to information we have from ME1 and ME2 indicates that they assault the milky way to destroy organic life, the reason is entirely speculation at this point. Fish do no understand us because they are not sentient beings capable of calculus.... we can understand what the reapers will do to organic life but fish do not... there is no sentient quality to the defiance of cattle who do not want to be herded. The only thing I can say in the face of all this is that being machines implies a creator, or some rise to sentience similar to the geth. And there may not be a reaper leader, but they are obviously co-operating with Harbinger to destroy humanity when the reaper army amasses on the galactic horizon.

So you don't think that there can be some form of sentient existence that can say their equivalent of "They are not even capable of calculus!" about us? Humans always think that they are precious, unique sentient beings, just because they are the only ones capable of voicing their petty emotions, which they always do.

The hole point of my having-sex remarks was to illustrate that our own existence is quite pointless, and basically just a habit (unless we invent a purpose for ourselves, that is). The Reapers promote chaotic biological life to being Reapers. Thus they impose order and purpose on the galaxy. Just what eternal, almighty entities usually do.

[Schattenkeil]

 Hm. What comes first into my mind when I hear "The Reaper"? Well, I love music and thus the answer is obvious. "Blue Öyster Cult" is the name! Don't fear the reaper!

Modifié par Schattenkeil, 23 septembre 2010 - 07:04 .

[Lebrine]

the reaper leader is megatron

they wipe the galaxy every 50k years coz they are hunting the all-spark

And each reaper transforms into a different cotton candy machine xD

[The Big Nothing]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

There might not be one. Or that one 'master reaper' might have died with the mass accelerator shot over Memnosyne. A Harbinger is a messenger, a sign of things to come, something which precedes events; in this case, probably the Reaper invasion.

For that matter, Harbinger himself might be that 'master reaper'. He was in charge of the Human Reaper creation project, after all.

It's clear that Harbinger is the scientist of the Reapers - their Mordin, if you will. I'm sure that between bouts of "assuming direct control" he even sings "I am the very model of an Enigmatic Death Machine."

[stuffingam]

I think that the leader is not a reaper, but something even more powerful, something that threatens the reapers into doing what it wants...2 quotes that I feel support this... "We seek salvation yours and ours" and "We are the keepers of the cycle", the key thing there being "keepers"...

[krimesh]

stuffingam wrote...

I think that the leader is not a reaper, but something even more powerful, something that threatens the reapers into doing what it wants...2 quotes that I feel support this... "We seek salvation yours and ours" and "We are the keepers of the cycle", the key thing there being "keepers"...

Okay, where are these quotes from exactly? I can't find them...

[Reiella]

maddenking2010 wrote...

Im under impression that there is a master Reaper of sorts. The oldest and Mightiest of them all. What made me think of this was Harbinger, who at the moment appears the highest ranking reaper, but then I actualy that about his name, what is a harbinger? A harbinger is basicly a rep who precedes those of greater importance. What do you think? What would this master reaper be like?

Don Knotts.

[008Zulu]

Modifié par 008Zulu, 23 septembre 2010 - 11:44 .

[008Zulu]

krimesh wrote...

008Zulu wrote...
I support the Mainframe idea, seems to be the most logical. The Geth use a similar system, necessity is the mother of invention after all. My theory is that the Mainframe is the Citadel station the Reapers use as a Mass Relay that connects to the Citadel in our galaxy.

Besides, if the Citadel is the mainframe, how come they can't turn it on then? Kinda odd if you can't use your brain, because the bugs that are supposed to press the on-button have gone rouge.

There are TWO Citadel stations;
1 - Dark Space Citadel that allows the Reapers to enter our galaxy.
2 - The Citadel that the sentient organics use.

You need 2 Mass Relays; to get from where you are to where you want to go to.

(first post didnt show up)

Modifié par 008Zulu, 23 septembre 2010 - 11:45 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

So the Dark space citadel is really not a citadel at all but just a big Mass Relay?

[StarcloudSWG]

The Reapers are large enough each one might well be its own Mass Relay. Or there's something about Mass Relays that we don't know, that the Reapers who invented the technology do.

The Citadel seems to be the only fast way back into the galaxy, but if I were a millions of years old sapient construct that consists of an entire race unified into a single will, I'd make darn sure there was a "back door" I could use.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 24 septembre 2010 - 12:09 .

[Tyrael02]

krimesh wrote...

Tyrael02 wrote...
in his explicit explanation of the reapers, Sovereign says they are eternal, either having always been as far as we can conceive an eternity of existence, or are eternal now that they have been born/created/been brought into existence as a sentient race. Consequently, and without the extra information we need, this implies that the reapers have achieved a state of being that requires no further input of resources or anything that will maintain of improve their so-called perfect state of existance. This does not solve any speculation or provide any insight into why they have left technology that is obviously rediculously advanced for beings that are infitely inferior. your examples on humans manipulating other species for resources is innaplicable, because we are not eternal, as reapers so claim, and we are not machines; there is a distinct and obvious line between utter destruction and manipulating a race for resources.... everything the reapers have ever done, according to information we have from ME1 and ME2 indicates that they assault the milky way to destroy organic life, the reason is entirely speculation at this point. Fish do no understand us because they are not sentient beings capable of calculus.... we can understand what the reapers will do to organic life but fish do not... there is no sentient quality to the defiance of cattle who do not want to be herded. The only thing I can say in the face of all this is that being machines implies a creator, or some rise to sentience similar to the geth. And there may not be a reaper leader, but they are obviously co-operating with Harbinger to destroy humanity when the reaper army amasses on the galactic horizon.

So you don't think that there can be some form of sentient existence that can say their equivalent of "They are not even capable of calculus!" about us? Humans always think that they are precious, unique sentient beings, just because they are the only ones capable of voicing their petty emotions, which they always do.

The hole point of my having-sex remarks was to illustrate that our own existence is quite pointless, and basically just a habit (unless we invent a purpose for ourselves, that is). The Reapers promote chaotic biological life to being Reapers. Thus they impose order and purpose on the galaxy. Just what eternal, almighty entities usually do.

lol you are missing out on the entire point of  the mass effect/reaper plot line if thats what you really think. Humans are pointless? not to humans.... and that is the point, please don't speak about evolution or physiology or anatomy or anything biology related because that is besides the point. Objectively, we are trying to evaluate the nature of the Reapers, not the "importance" of the human race. The former is deduced using facts we have so far, as this forum has been trying to if you haven't noticed, and the latter is irrelevant to anyone or anything but us as a species, also if you haven't noticed..... which in itself propels the entire mass effect story from the POV of humanity.... just throwing that out there. And yes, humans are special,  we are superior, relative to other non sentient species,  specifically because of our ability to voice our opinions AND because of calculus and physics; it implies a grasp of the fundamental laws of the universe.... isn't that obvious? The same applies to any other race in the ME universe relative to their homeworlds, and also the reason why they want to and will stand united agaisnt the reapers...

The story paints the reapers as evil yes, that is true, and it does so without explaining what they really are in their entirety, but what they do flies in the face of every fundamental force that drives the evolution and the progression of any sentient species. Given that, I'd hate them too as a Human. OR Turian. OR Asari, and so on. Assimilating a species doesn't impose order on them any more than utterly destroying them does. Thats part of the theatrical potency of mass effect; organics realize that what reapers do does not impose order, but destroys what they are. You're missing the ENTIRE point dude

Modifié par Tyrael02, 24 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[008Zulu]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So the Dark space citadel is really not a citadel at all but just a big Mass Relay?

Both; It houses the Reaper mainframe and functions as a Mass Relay.

If the mainframe idea turns out to be not true, then it probably is just a big Mass Relay.

Hmm, OT thought. Since the Reapers are by now aware that they wont be able to use their Dark Space relay, the Alliance (or Shepard) could sneak through it a mega powerful bomb. Probably wont hurt any Reapers, but it could damage the Relay. Though it does seem a little risky, Maybe it could be TIMs backup plan when Shepard took out the Collector base?

[krimesh]

Tyrael02 wrote...
lol you are missing out on the entire point of  the mass effect/reaper plot line if thats what you really think. Humans are pointless? not to humans.... and that is the point, please don't speak about evolution or physiology or anatomy or anything biology related because that is besides the point. Objectively, we are trying to evaluate the nature of the Reapers, not the "importance" of the human race. The former is deduced using facts we have so far, as this forum has been trying to if you haven't noticed, and the latter is irrelevant to anyone or anything but us as a species, also if you haven't noticed..... which in itself propels the entire mass effect story from the POV of humanity.... just throwing that out there. And yes, humans are special,  we are superior, relative to other non sentient species,  specifically because of our ability to voice our opinions AND because of calculus and physics; it implies a grasp of the fundamental laws of the universe.... isn't that obvious? The same applies to any other race in the ME universe relative to their homeworlds, and also the reason why they want to and will stand united agaisnt the reapers...

The story paints the reapers as evil yes, that is true, and it does so without explaining what they really are in their entirety, but what they do flies in the face of every fundamental force that drives the evolution and the progression of any sentient species. Given that, I'd hate them too as a Human. OR Turian. OR Asari, and so on. Assimilating a species doesn't impose order on them any more than utterly destroying them does. Thats part of the theatrical potency of mass effect; organics realize that what reapers do does not impose order, but destroys what they are. You're missing the ENTIRE point dude

Look, I am trying to explain what I think the Reapers think. For that purpose I had to restate what Sovereign said, namely that organic life is pointless and chaotic, a random mutation. This is certainly a way to look at us, albeit maybe not the most optimistic one. The Reapers feel that they themselves have more purpose, because they are engineered. Biological resources are utilized with an actual plan, not just evolution, to create something better, or so they think. As I said, maybe there is a lot more to the Reapers, but still, this alone makes what they are doing quite plausible. They impose their will on the galaxy, and eradicate organic life which "just happens". That qualifies as "imposing order" because it is an intentional reordering of things, according to a certain scheme. If this doesn't make absolute sense to someone... well, do you expect to fully understand a million years old spaceship? This is just the information about the Reapers' motivations we have already been given in the game. I haven't even done much interpretation. And I'm just saying that it is making sense on it's own, without any further revelations.

Yeah, we are superior to other species, because we have Calculus, Science and Engineering. That is to say, we are more powerful. We can understand things they cannot. Well, don't the Reapers claim the same about themselves?

I am in no way implying that the Reapers should not be opposed by all races who discovered the mass relays. Obviously, we all don't agree with the Reapers' point of view, namely "salvation through destruction", or in other words bloody murder on all sapient species in the galaxy. And yet, from the Reaper's point of view, the galaxy would be improved by this. Harbinger said so.

008Zulu wrote...
There are TWO Citadel stations;
1 - Dark Space Citadel that allows the Reapers to enter our galaxy.
2 - The Citadel that the sentient organics use.

You need 2 Mass Relays; to get from where you are to where you want to go to.
...
Hmm, OT thought. Since the Reapers are by now aware that they wont be able to use their Dark Space relay, the Alliance (or Shepard) could sneak through it a mega powerful bomb. Probably wont hurt any Reapers, but it could damage the Relay. Though it does seem a little risky, Maybe it could be TIMs backup plan when Shepard took out the Collector base?

I don't know. Wouldn't we have seen the Reapers hanging around a relay at the end of ME2, then? Maybe the Reapers can jump to the Citadel on their own, if it is activated. Anyway, if you want to send a bomb to the other side, you'd have to figure out how relays work, which apparently is very difficult. Also, you'd have to eventually activate the citadel, and would that not let the Reapers in?

Modifié par krimesh, 24 septembre 2010 - 08:33 .

[DanielJr]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...
No like this

Wow, that's pretty cool!  Great little intel there. 

Modifié par DanielJr, 24 septembre 2010 - 09:16 .

[stuffingam]

@ Krimesh, those quotes are from ME: Retribution...

[vehzeel]

I don't think they have a leader. In fact, I think they compete with each other - just like today's nations. They share a common goal (i.e. extermination of organics) but when the resistance is squashed, it's a race to the resources.