207 réponses à ce sujet

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

Again a good point, though one could argue the value of attempting to force the Quarians to take a long hard look at themselves.

Two looming wars may make it a bad time to do this.

Perhaps but is there ever a good time?

[Xilizhra]

When no one's shooting at you/threatening to shoot at you.

[MACGRUBER7691]

kaiki01 wrote...
If you tell the admiralty board then Tali gets hurt.
If you don't tell them, then Tali doesn't get hurt.

With
either choice it is possible for Tali not to be exiled. So I would say
the right choice is not to tell them. If you do Tali is hurt and
nothing is really gained. The experiments were still conducted and
Tali's dad is still dead. Nothing is gained from the emotional torment
you would inflict on Tali by telling.

You kind of missed my entire point. The quarians needed to know what tali's father did was wrong. They need to know that doing expiraments like that will have dire consequences. Whos to say that they won't just do the same expiraments again if they don't know what happened. I think that Talis father was trying to do what was right but what he did was wrong and had dire consequences. The quarians need to know what happens when you take advantage of and dominate another race. Apperantly they didn't learn that the first time. They just need to move on and find another world and forget about the damn geth. Sweeping what tali's father did under the rug would have done nothing to bring those issues to light. Remember those who do not learn from thier history are doomed to repeat it.

Modifié par MACGRUBER7691, 22 septembre 2010 - 09:00 .

[PsyrenY]

I think it is right to tell the admirals (or at least just Gerrell) what Tali's father was doing, but NOT in the very public setting of the trial.

As for Morrigan Xen, it's pretty obvious that no matter how much you hide the facts, she authorizes a search of the Alarei anyway. After all, you killed the only things that would have impeded her search party.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 22 septembre 2010 - 09:16 .

[cachx]

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...
You kind of missed my entire point. The quarians needed to know what
tali's father did was wrong. They need to know that doing expiraments
like that will have dire consequences.

The thing is, if you tell what Tali's father was doing, the result is that the Flotilla fractures and separates, potentially dooming them. (You find this by talking to Tali later).

The problem is that the game gives you no indication that is going to happen.

My first time through the game I delivered the evidence because it seemed like the paragon thing to do. The results were so bad I reloaded the game and did the whole mission again.

[Chiyeko]

She is part of my crew and if some one on my crew asks me to do something for him, her for once I will do it.



Above all I am loyal to my crew and I need my crew loyal at me and that they know they can thrust me. Simple as that, of course I told the one admiral later on so in some clandestine way they can prevent this from happening again.



Also with Zaeed his mission, yes I let those miner burn so sorry for them, but if I went to save a few miners Vito would get away and cause a whole lot more harm than a few death factory workers.

[PsyrenY]

cachx wrote...

The problem is that the game gives you no indication that is going to happen.

\\
So you would have been fine with "just" demonizing her father and ruining her happiness/focus?

[cachx]

Optimystic_X wrote...

cachx wrote...

The problem is that the game gives you no indication that is going to happen.

\\\\
So you would have been fine with "just" demonizing her father and ruining her happiness/focus?

Yes. if it wasn't for the Flotilla disbanding over that decision, Tali's reaction would have been nonsensical.

I was actually expecting Tali to understand via conversation later that "war criminals are not cool" but alas, there was no option for that.

[kaiki01]

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

kaiki01 wrote...
If you tell the admiralty board then Tali gets hurt.
If you don't tell them, then Tali doesn't get hurt.

With
either choice it is possible for Tali not to be exiled. So I would say
the right choice is not to tell them. If you do Tali is hurt and
nothing is really gained. The experiments were still conducted and
Tali's dad is still dead. Nothing is gained from the emotional torment
you would inflict on Tali by telling.

You kind of missed my entire point. The quarians needed to know what tali's father did was wrong. They need to know that doing expiraments like that will have dire consequences. Whos to say that they won't just do the same expiraments again if they don't know what happened. I think that Talis father was trying to do what was right but what he did was wrong and had dire consequences. The quarians need to know what happens when you take advantage of and dominate another race. Apperantly they didn't learn that the first time. They just need to move on and find another world and forget about the damn geth. Sweeping what tali's father did under the rug would have done nothing to bring those issues to light. Remember those who do not learn from thier history are doomed to repeat it.

I disagree, I don't think the Quarians need to know what Tali's father did. They already know the history of what happens when they mistreat sentient creatures. They live with that lesson every day in their suits and in their flotilla. Knowing history will not stop every individual from following that doomed path. Tali's father is an example of that.

I come back to my original suggestion, if you tell the admiralty board there is no net positive to anyone.

[Onyx Jaguar]

brfritos wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

JJ Long wrote...

There is no right decision.

Of course there is.

Someone did something illegal in their societies norms and got their entire crew killed.  Bringing them to justice after their death is just.

No, I agree with him, there's no right decision, there is your decision.

Tali's father was wrong in my opinion, let's make it clear, and wish he pays for his crimes.
So you are saying that I should give the evidence?
But this evidence also will bring the entire society on the verge of war against another race and this war will have a impact in the entire galaxy.

That's why it's called "politics"

How are we suppose to know all of this?  If anything it shows that the Quarians are the bad guys and not the Geth. 

Doing the "politics" angle is when you influence them to exile Tali, throw out the trial as well as influencing them to go to war or not to.  All in an effort to make sure nothing happens and they can live their lives with clouded goggles to reality.

There is a War Criminal.  Outting the War Criminal is the just cause.  Even if it is one of them.  Just because they don't want to hear it doesn't mean that they should hear it.  In public no less so it can't get swept under the rug.

[Xilizhra]

Truth is the servant of welfare. If telling the truth does more harm than good, it will remain untold.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Weak people allow the truth to hurt them

[Xilizhra]

Then allow them to become stronger so that they can have it not hurt them.

[Onyx Jaguar]

If their political structure is so fragile after all that time that this event will basically ruin them, in a sense it deserves to fall apart.

[Nightwriter]

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

I guess the driving point for me was to make sure the admiralty board knew what caused the geth attacks. I wanted them to know so they wouldn't just do the expiraments again. What would be the point of telling just one person. Everyone on the board needs to know why this was wrong. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The only thing the quarians will get out of this is that the geth have, once again, slaughtered a large number of quarians.

Then you hand them a powerful weapon of war after gifting them with this realization.

This is not the right thing to do.

[Xilizhra]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

If their political structure is so fragile after all that time that this event will basically ruin them, in a sense it deserves to fall apart.

Rather cruel to all of the normal citizens, don't you think?

[Onyx Jaguar]

This a potentially destructive society to begin with. Setting themselves up with isolation. Isolation leads to failure. Their leaders continuing hostile and aggressive acts against their primary opponent that could lead to their destruction (as it does in that isolated case) is testament to this.

[Xilizhra]

I'm setting them up for peace with the geth, not permanent isolation.

[Onyx Jaguar]

These are all assumptions though. You can be a wordsmith all you want but you have no real active pull in a society as closed off as the Quarians.

[packardbell]

 Is your Shepard a cold-hearted son of a gun who doesn't give a damn about your team mates feelings/emotions then yeah give the board the evidence.

[RubyRed1975]

Well for me this was a hard decision. To tell the truth or to keep my mouth shut. So I choose to rally the crowd every time. I don't tell anyone what Tali's father did. I know the experiments are wrong but, it isn't my place to tell a society how they should live. If they shoot themselves in the foot so be it. I guess the choice is really yours so do what you feel is best

[MACGRUBER7691]

packardbell wrote...

 Is your Shepard a cold-hearted son of a gun who doesn't give a damn about your team mates feelings/emotions then yeah give the board the evidence.

I didn't want to see tali get hurt but I had to do the right thing. The quarians needed to know what tali's father did so they will not do it or allow it to happen again. I understood why she was upset but tali's feelings came second to what I thought was best for the quarian community. I believe giving them the evidence would help prevent those expiraments from happening again.

[MACGRUBER7691]

Nightwriter wrote...

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

I guess the driving point for me was to make sure the admiralty board knew what caused the geth attacks. I wanted them to know so they wouldn't just do the expiraments again. What would be the point of telling just one person. Everyone on the board needs to know why this was wrong. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The only thing the quarians will get out of this is that the geth have, once again, slaughtered a large number of quarians.

Then you hand them a powerful weapon of war after gifting them with this realization.

This is not the right thing to do.

Oh and how is the other option any better? The quarians believe that there was an unprovoked attack oon the flotilla, they believe that they did nothing wrong and the geth are the bad guys. Tali's father performed horrible expiraments on the geth  and they fought back. I told the council that they can never do this again and to avoid war at all costs. I believe that the consequences of not telling them what happened would far outwiegh the benefits of sweeping it all under the rug even if they wouldn't recieve the data.

Modifié par MACGRUBER7691, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:29 .

[MACGRUBER7691]

double post

Modifié par MACGRUBER7691, 23 septembre 2010 - 12:28 .

[Nightwriter]

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

Oh and how is the other option any better? The quarians believe that there was an unprovoked attack oon the flotilla, they believe that they did nothing wrong and the geth are the bad guys. Tali's father performed horrible expiraments on the geth  and they fought back. I told the council that they can never do this again and to avoid war at all costs. I believe that the consequences of not telling them what happened would far outwiegh the benefits of sweeping it all under the rug even if they wouldn't recieve the data.

The quarians knowing something bad happened on the Alarei is one thing. Finding out something bad happened, then handing them a powerful weapon which will kindle their anger, is another.

It's the difference between someone getting punched, and someone getting punched and then you handing them a gun.

Right now the lesson they've learned is that the geth are still dangerous. If they knew about Rael's work, they'd start to think they had a real chance in the war, and they'd be deadset on taking back the homeworld.