207 réponses à ce sujet

[Mayo_20]

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

packardbell wrote...

 Is your Shepard a cold-hearted son of a gun who doesn't give a damn about your team mates feelings/emotions then yeah give the board the evidence.

I didn't want to see tali get hurt but I had to do the right thing. The quarians needed to know what tali's father did so they will not do it or allow it to happen again. I understood why she was upset but tali's feelings came second to what I thought was best for the quarian community. I believe giving them the evidence would help prevent those expiraments from happening again.

"The right thing" Heh. Tali's feelings come second? Anyone who would throw their friend under a bus like that doesn't deserve to have any. How would that look to the other people on your ship? Knowing that at any moment your loyalty to them could just be tossed aside. You can go up against the Collectors and the Reapers alone, armed only with your belief that you did the 'right thing'.

Even if you remove Tali's feelings from the equation, I would still have not told the leaders what happened. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to satisfy your own conscience. That is just selfish. Saying they 'need to know what he did was wrong' sounds like you are treating them like children. Slapping their hand and saying 'bad Quarion!'. Real life doesn't work like that. I doubt you thought about all the Quarian lives that would be lost in the war with the Geth.'

I will always side with my friends. I have their back and they have mine.

(forgive spelling errors plz - I had to leave in the middle of proofing this)

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

Oh and how is the other option any better? The quarians believe that there was an unprovoked attack oon the flotilla, they believe that they did nothing wrong and the geth are the bad guys. Tali's father performed horrible expiraments on the geth  and they fought back. I told the council that they can never do this again and to avoid war at all costs. I believe that the consequences of not telling them what happened would far outwiegh the benefits of sweeping it all under the rug even if they wouldn't recieve the data.

The quarians knowing something bad happened on the Alarei is one thing. Finding out something bad happened, then handing them a powerful weapon which will kindle their anger, is another.

It's the difference between someone getting punched, and someone getting punched and then you handing them a gun.

Right now the lesson they've learned is that the geth are still dangerous. If they knew about Rael's work, they'd start to think they had a real chance in the war, and they'd be deadset on taking back the homeworld.

The tech is still there.  The reason for the tech and who is to blame rests on your hands.  Nothing changes in regards to the tech regardless of your decision.

All they would know here is that Rael was the one to blame for it.

[Nightwriter]

Gerrel says something curious if you choose the neutral response where you ask Tali what she wants to tell him.

He says, "I'll take your word for it, kiddo. It's not like I have much choice."

This is a puzzling line. Is the Alarei somehow closed off now? Can he not board and verify? It seems to imply our word is indeed law here, which is very odd.

The don't-give-them-the-evidence approach is better because it involves you telling them off for getting too obsessed with this war, rather than plunging the Admiralty Board into utter chaos at the worst possible time.

[DPSSOC]

Nightwriter wrote...

Gerrel says something curious if you choose the neutral response where you ask Tali what she wants to tell him.

He says, "I'll take your word for it, kiddo. It's not like I have much choice."

This is a puzzling line. Is the Alarei somehow closed off now? Can he not board and verify? It seems to imply our word is indeed law here, which is very odd.

Well if you recall most of the data you encounter is corrupted except for the main hub and I'd assume Tali would have wiped the damning evidence against her father from the ship's computer.

Nightwriter wrote...
The don't-give-them-the-evidence approach is better because it involves you telling them off for getting too obsessed with this war, rather than plunging the Admiralty Board into utter chaos at the worst possible time.

Maybe that's what's needed.  How long have the Quarians been operating under this system?  What good has it done them?  Maybe it's time for the Kal'Reegers, Veetors, and other rank and file Quarians to rise up and say "Look you pompus windbags, we're not putting up with you or your agendas anymore.  We, the Quarian people, will decide what's in our best interests from now on, not you."  But it won't happen on it's own, not yet, they need somebody to trigger the spark that lights the inferno.  Come on Nightwriter, give 'em a light.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I would also like to speculate that Xen had dibs on quarantining the ship if you do the Paragon or Rabble rousing way. So that is why the other two admirals may be locked out.

[Nightwriter]

If most of the data was wiped, I fail to see how Xen could get anything worthwhile enough to inspire that email.

Even if she had first dibs during the quarantine, it would've been after Shepard and Tali sweep the ship.

[DPSSOC]

Xen is a bit of a tech wizard, not to mention AI expert, so it's possible she was able to recover bits and pieces of Rael's research from the corrupted data; not the whole of it, but enough for her to run with. Or maybe Gerrel's just a gullible moron I don't know.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:57 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

If most of the data was wiped, I fail to see how Xen could get anything worthwhile enough to inspire that email.

Even if she had first dibs during the quarantine, it would've been after Shepard and Tali sweep the ship.

The data was wiped but the hardware was still there.

[MACGRUBER7691]

Mayo_20 wrote...

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

packardbell wrote...

 Is your Shepard a cold-hearted son of a gun who doesn't give a damn about your team mates feelings/emotions then yeah give the board the evidence.

I didn't want to see tali get hurt but I had to do the right thing. The quarians needed to know what tali's father did so they will not do it or allow it to happen again. I understood why she was upset but tali's feelings came second to what I thought was best for the quarian community. I believe giving them the evidence would help prevent those expiraments from happening again.

"The right thing" Heh. Tali's feelings come second? Anyone who would throw their friend under a bus like that doesn't deserve to have any. How would that look to the other people on your ship? Knowing that at any moment your loyalty to them could just be tossed aside. You can go up against the Collectors and the Reapers alone, armed only with your belief that you did the 'right thing'.

Even if you remove Tali's feelings from the equation, I would still have not told the leaders what happened. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to satisfy your own conscience. That is just selfish. Saying they 'need to know what he did was wrong' sounds like you are treating them like children. Slapping their hand and saying 'bad Quarion!'. Real life doesn't work like that. I doubt you thought about all the Quarian lives that would be lost in the war with the Geth.'

I will always side with my friends. I have their back and they have mine.

(forgive spelling errors plz - I had to leave in the middle of proofing this)

I don't want the quarians to go to war damnit. Thats why I gave them the evidence. They need to know that expiramenting and preparing for war will come back and bite them in the ass. I could care less about tali's father coming to justice. He's dead, no justice can be served to him but knowledge can be given to the quarians. They need to know the consequnces of what talis father did so they may not try it again. I am not treating them like children . I am advising them not to do these expiraments. As Onyx said the tech will be discovered in either case. But you can make sure they know the consequnces of this tech instead of them just finding it thinking no harm was done. Besides I think more expiraments would have been undertaken if they did not know of the concequences.

In closing tali'sfather made a horrible mistake. He may have been doing it for tali, for unselfish reasons but that dose not make what he did right. He commited war crimes and ruthless expiramentations that led to horrible consequences. I needed to warn the quarians so that they would not let something like this happen again. I did this so they would not go down the path leading to war like tali's father did. I did not treat them like children. I was honest and expected them to head my advice to not make the same mistakes tali's father made, to not go to war. If I had not done this, if I had simply swet everything that had happened under the rug the chances of war would be so much grater. The quarians would have learned nothing of the consequences. The pro war faction would have discovered the data anyways and kept it secret from the rest and the quarians would once again think of the geth as vicious attackers instead of race simply defending itself. I did not make this desicion just to be honest. I did it to help the quarians and the geth.
Also I would hope my friends wouldn't just expect me to get rid of what I think is right just because they asked. I thought that reveling the evidence was the best thing to do so I did it. I cared about tali's feelings but I am going to do what I think is right. If a friend asked me to murder someone I would not do it no matter how much that person wanted me too. I'm not saying tali is evil. She didn't want to see her father shunned but I had to do what I thought was the best thing for everyone not just Tali.

Modifié par MACGRUBER7691, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[Nightwriter]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The data was wiped but the hardware was still there.

Seems pretty meaningless then. Bunch of geth parts, no data about the tests that made the parts meaningful.

Hey DPSSOC, when do we learn Xen is a tech wizard? Is this just because she's a quarian?

You know, I'd like to meet one quarian some day who's just like, "I don't know sh*t about tech okay?! I'm a freaking window washer, why do you people keep asking me to fix your omnitools?! You humans are all racist!!"

Modifié par Nightwriter, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:10 .

[InvaderErl]

Nightwriter wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The data was wiped but the hardware was still there.

Seems pretty meaningless then. Bunch of geth parts, no data about the tests that made the parts meaningful.

Hey DPSSOC, when do we learn Xen is a tech wizard? Is this just because she's a quarian?

You know, I'd like to meet one quarian some day who's just like, "I don't know sh*t about tech okay?! I'm a freaking window washer, why do you people keep asking me to fix your omnitools?! You humans are all racist!!"

lol,

heh - I think part of it is Xen is already thinking along those lines so she can look at the equipment and while others may just see Geth equipment she can see what they were trying to do and make the connections. As for her tech skills, she says she dissected her childhood toy so its clear she's interested in figuring out the mechanics of things.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:12 .

[Cpl_Facehugger]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

It isn't Shepard's fault that Tali takes it so badly if you expose the truth.

It isn't that he revealed the truth. It's the fact that he practically doomed her race to extinction!

You talk to her after revealing the evidence and she tells you that by revealing the evidence you split the fleet up into different factions, completely screwing over her entire species.

I'm sorry, but by revealing the evidence, it makes you a complete monster.

Wait, you can doom the entire quarian species by revealing the evidence? Hell yes, I'm going to do that in all my playthroughs from now on, paragon or no.

[Onyx Jaguar]

"My god this IBM does not have windows! What are we to do!"



"Its got all the hardware intact, I think we could figure out how it is suppose to output"



"Madness! Without a proper operating system installed this hardware will never be of use!"



Or something

[InvaderErl]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

"My god this IBM does not have windows! What are we to do!"

"Its got all the hardware intact, I think we could figure out how it is suppose to output"

"Madness! Without a proper operating system installed this hardware will never be of use!"

Or something

They should just have Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith fly to the Geth homeworld and upload a virus off their MAC.

[MadCat221]

Nightwriter wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The data was wiped but the hardware was still there.

Seems pretty meaningless then. Bunch of geth parts, no data about the tests that made the parts meaningful.

Hey DPSSOC, when do we learn Xen is a tech wizard? Is this just because she's a quarian?

You know, I'd like to meet one quarian some day who's just like, "I don't know sh*t about tech okay?! I'm a freaking window washer, why do you people keep asking me to fix your omnitools?! You humans are all racist!!"

Umm... Kal "I just shoot things" Reegar?

Anyhoo... spilling the beans doesn't "slap the Quarians' wrists and tell them that war is bad" at all.  It balkanizes them even worse than they already are.  They'll demonize Tali's father and go right ahead and use whatever fruits of his labor they find to make the situation worse.  And plus, you have demonized Tali's father, and she'll never forgive you for that.

What the Admirals need is an earfull.  Not a scold like a parent gives to a kid, but a "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU" shout.  Shepard's 'Outsider Of Interest' status amongst the Quarians gives him just the power to do that.  Paragon response kinda lacks the kick, but the Rally and Renegade responses deliver.

And then if you really want to tip things in favor of peace, endorse Koris's viewpoint afterwards.

Modifié par MadCat221, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:17 .

[Nightwriter]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

"My god this IBM does not have windows! What are we to do!"

"Its got all the hardware intact, I think we could figure out how it is suppose to output"

"Madness! Without a proper operating system installed this hardware will never be of use!"

Or something

Yeah, but make the IBM full of bullet holes, and say that the virus you want off it was destroyed alongside the software.

[MACGRUBER7691]

MadCat221 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The data was wiped but the hardware was still there.

Seems pretty meaningless then. Bunch of geth parts, no data about the tests that made the parts meaningful.

Hey DPSSOC, when do we learn Xen is a tech wizard? Is this just because she's a quarian?

You know, I'd like to meet one quarian some day who's just like, "I don't know sh*t about tech okay?! I'm a freaking window washer, why do you people keep asking me to fix your omnitools?! You humans are all racist!!"

Umm... Kal "I just shoot things" Reegar?

Anyhoo... spilling the beans doesn't "slap the Quarians' wrists and tell them that war is bad" at all.  It balkanizes them even worse than they already are.  They'll demonize Tali's father and go right ahead and use whatever fruits of his labor they find to make the situation worse.  And plus, you have demonized Tali's father, and she'll never forgive you for that.

What the Admirals need is an earfull.  Not a scold like a parent gives to a kid, but a "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU" shout.  Shepard's 'Outsider Of Interest' status amongst the Quarians gives him just the power to do that.  Paragon response kinda lacks the kick, but the Rally and Renegade responses deliver.

And then if you really want to tip things in favor of peace, endorse Koris's viewpoint afterwards.

So you are saying that the quarians will just willy nilly use the dangerous data that was attained by war crimes and continue the same said expiraments that led to the horrible things that happened, that were just revealed to the public? How do you think that will fly? You think that the entire quarian public will willfully ignore what just happened. I do not think this would be the case. I think that the knowledge on the horrific tradgety and danger caused by the expiraments would prevent the quarians from pursuing what tali's father started. Also this will give warning to the anti war factions. To watch out for the expirements and be on gaurd. I beleive that I did not scold or slap the wrists of the quarians. I gave them logical and sensible advice and warning against what tali's father did and the consequences of war with geth.

Modifié par MACGRUBER7691, 23 septembre 2010 - 02:29 .

[DPSSOC]

Nightwriter wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The data was wiped but the hardware was still there.

Seems pretty meaningless then. Bunch of geth parts, no data about the tests that made the parts meaningful.

Hey DPSSOC, when do we learn Xen is a tech wizard? Is this just because she's a quarian?

You know, I'd like to meet one quarian some day who's just like, "I don't know sh*t about tech okay?! I'm a freaking window washer, why do you people keep asking me to fix your omnitools?! You humans are all racist!!"

Yes part of my assessment of Xen is blatant racism for which I make no apologies.  Also her interest in studying AI and Geth in particular would seem to imply a certain level of technical expertise.  Not to mention her omission of disecting childhood toys which really leaves only 3 options.  She's been either a tech, doctor, or serial killer since birth.  I lean towards the first though after the email the third is believable.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

"My god this IBM does not have windows! What are we to do!"

"Its got all the hardware intact, I think we could figure out how it is suppose to output"

"Madness! Without a proper operating system installed this hardware will never be of use!"

Or something

Yeah, but make the IBM full of bullet holes, and say that the virus you want off it was destroyed alongside the software.

I would speculate further given what we know of hard drives but I think I will just stop as at some point I will just sound insane.

Basically, no.  If someone else wants to give it a shot they should.

[Images]

On my first playthrough, which is always my "what would I really do" playthrough (PARAgade generally I've noticed) I told the council about Tali's father. However this was a decision made with not being able to make the charm and intimidate choices because of not enough points.



There was not that much deliberation on my part really. I wasn't gonna do rally the crowd because I didn't know if that would work at the time and I didn't want to end up pissing off the admiralty. I also wasn't going to let Tali take the rap (even if she wanted to) because it wasn't her fault. Her father had simply been an idiot (even if it was with good intentions) and that needed to be recognised. Just because she wanted to get punished for someone else, didn't make it right. You might say it isn't Shepard's right to choose but since Shepard is Tali's CO and her judgement is being completely clouded by emotion he could not allow her to throw away her livelihood. It would just mean she'd still be in Rael's shadow anyway and would lose the only family she has left, the fleet.



If I'd had the points I probably would have saved both their reputations and talked to Gerrel privately after but with just the vanilla choices on hand, the truth had to be heard in my opinion.

[MadCat221]

MACGRUBER7691 wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Umm... Kal "I just shoot things" Reegar?

Anyhoo... spilling the beans doesn't "slap the Quarians' wrists and tell them that war is bad" at all.  It balkanizes them even worse than they already are.  They'll demonize Tali's father and go right ahead and use whatever fruits of his labor they find to make the situation worse.  And plus, you have demonized Tali's father, and she'll never forgive you for that.

What the Admirals need is an earfull.  Not a scold like a parent gives to a kid, but a "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU" shout.  Shepard's 'Outsider Of Interest' status amongst the Quarians gives him just the power to do that.  Paragon response kinda lacks the kick, but the Rally and Renegade responses deliver.

And then if you really want to tip things in favor of peace, endorse Koris's viewpoint afterwards.

So you are saying that the quarians will just willy nilly use the dangerous data that was attained by war crimes and continue the same said expiraments that led to the horrible things that happened, that were just revealed to the public? How do you think that will fly? You think that the entire quarian public will willfully ignore what just happened. I do not think this would be the case. I think that the knowledge on the horrific tradgety and danger caused by the expiraments would prevent the quarians from pursuing what tali's father started. Also this will give warning to the anti war factions. To watch out for the expirements and be on gaurd. I beleive that I did not scold or slap the wrists of the quarians. I gave them logical and sensible advice and warning against what tali's father did and the consequences of war with geth.

I'm sure Koris's camp will say that all the more loudly.  However, the Xen and Gerrel camps will see a shiny new cudgel with which to beat the Geth into submission/annihilation.  As I said, it would make the polarized politics concerning the Geth even worse.

Showing the heinous act of a dead man for all to see won't wake them up.  Dragging out their maltreatment of your crewmate despite all the good deeds she's done for her people for all to see, slinging some of their own mud back at them, that's what will cool their heads.  And open them up to your suggestion as the followup reveals.  It's a far harder proverbial dope slap than revealing Rael's misdeeds.

Keeping it under wraps gives Gerrel incentive to keep it under wraps too, in respect for his late friend's standing.  If it's out in the open, then he'd probably take the "Well it's out there anyway" regard to the findings.  Xen... well, she seems to be a problem no matter what the outcome of the trial.

Modifié par MadCat221, 23 septembre 2010 - 03:03 .

[InHarmsWay]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

This a potentially destructive society to begin with. Setting themselves up with isolation. Isolation leads to failure. Their leaders continuing hostile and aggressive acts against their primary opponent that could lead to their destruction (as it does in that isolated case) is testament to this.

They are not isolated by choice!

They are practically forbidden from colonizing. Last time they tried to colonize a world, the Council threatened genocide by bombarding their settlements (which would result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands). They were forced to leave and the planet was given to the Elcor. Places like Illium forbid the fleet from approaching their planets from a certain distance. So don't blame their isolation of themselves. It's like yelling at a guy with no legs that he's not moving out of your way fast enough.

[Kusy]

Xen is a serious nutcase. She should be isolated.

[InvaderErl]

I am looking forward to shooting her. She's been pretty much foreshadowed as being the major baddie for the Geth/Quarian storyline.