128 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

Talogrungi wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

Hah, that's eenteresting.
What if Hawke turns out to be the big bad the Warden goes up against in DA3?
And which side would YOU cheer on?

Depends on which of my Wardens goes againt which of my Hawkes.   High five, through, Talogrungi!  You should make a new thread.  It's a great question.


I wonder if I should play "Good" Hawkettes off of my "Eeeeebillll" Wardens?  Or Evil Hawkettes off of my Good Wardens!  My favorite Warden was a power hungry Blood Mage that thought of herself and her advancement before even Ferelden (since the other Wardens would eventually kill the Archdemon, anyways.)  I wonder if I should play a selfless Hawkette off that game?  What would the difference be between a selfish Hawkette played off of my Grey-Warden-to-the-heels CEF Warden? 

Things to think about.... 

Hah, my original instinct when I heard about DA2's import was to create a "good" Hawke off the back of my "good" Warden, thereby having a full "good" DA1/DA2 playthrough to import into DA3.

But then the thought occurred that if Hawke and the Warden turned out to be enemies in DA3, they'd both be "good" .. and then I'd have an ethical conundrum over which to support and my head would explode into meaty chunks.

Good...evil....Irrelevant for me.  If Hawke and the Warden were enemies in DA3 I'd support Hawke by default simply because he actually has a voice and can do more in a conversation than just stand there and do a Legolas impression of staring off into the middle distance.

[dheer]

SirOccam wrote...
And besides, some might see it more as continuing with Luke Skywalker after A New Hope. He accomplished a great thing, blowing up the Death Star. It doesn't mean his story has to be over though.

Spot on. Exactly how I feel about  the end of the Warden's story in Origins. I thought, great, what's next? What new area of the map will my Warden travel to next to adventure?

Then Hawke's game was announced.

[Brockololly]

dheer wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
And besides, some might see it more as continuing with Luke Skywalker after A New Hope. He accomplished a great thing, blowing up the Death Star. It doesn't mean his story has to be over though.

Spot on. Exactly how I feel about  the end of the Warden's story in Origins. I thought, great, what's next? What new area of the map will my Warden travel to next to adventure?

Then Hawke's game was announced.

Bingo. They gave us the big choices in Origins....and then the game ended. Where are the consequences? Sure if you go all martyr US on the Archdemon, thats it, but then you go on with the Orlesian. Its like saying Luke was a fully trained and knowledgable Jedi Knight after A New Hope and his story was done- the Hero fo Ferelden is still a noob Warden whose only interaction with the Wardens was with Duncan, Riordan and Alistair (ignoring Awakening). It would be nice to see more or how the Wardens operate outside of backwater Ferelden and what they'd think of the Wardens that did the DR or dealt with the Architect. Presumably you've got a wide range of Wardens- some who would think doing the DR was nuts and others who would gladly do it.

Witch Hunt sets things up for the Wardens at large taking an interest in Morrigan, so should Morrigan pop up and play a role in the future, I hope its the Hero of Ferelden/Wardens dealing with her, especially given how Witch Hunt can possibly end...

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 septembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[FedericoV]

SirOccam wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
The world ends up in pretty serious trouble, and war's a-coming.

Presumably, thats where DA3 may pick up with Morrigan, the Warden and Friends? I'm sure DA2 will be fantastic and all, but can we pretty please just skip to  World War Thedas with Morrigan, Flemeth, Old God Baby, the Wardens and all that?

I respect your opinion but it would be really boring. Like taking Luke Skywalker after The Return of the Jedi...

That's actually a really bad example...the EU books by Timothy Zahn (the Thrawn trilogy and later Spectre of the Past and Vision of the Future) were really damn good.

I've not read those books so I can't judge them properly. But personally I've not great consideration for Star Wars franchise's books (since they are... franchise books made on commission and are not writtenn by Lucas), especially the ones with the protagonists of the movie. In general, I do not like the idea of franchise books even if I read The Stolen Throne bt David Gaider. For me, Luke's storyark is finished with Return of the Jedi. While in A New Hope even when he brings down the Death Star, he has still many things to accomplish and his potential as a Jedi is still to be explored (I mean... the new hope of the film is impersonificated by Luke...).

Similarly, the Warden is an accomplished charachter. He has done many great deeds, saved the land form the blight and maybe from his aftermath, even if in a short time. His story is over. Playing another blight game with The Warden would be boring and repetitive. Having said that, technically speaking, there is 0 chances to see another Warden game since there is not a canon and in many playthrough he is dead thanks to the the ultimate sacrifice.

Modifié par FedericoV, 22 septembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[Brockololly]

FedericoV wrote...
 Having said that, technically speaking, there is 0 chances to see another Warden game since there is not a canon and in many playthrough he is dead thanks to the the ultimate sacrifice.

Hate to break it to you, but its not a "My canon is better than your canon!" scenario.So sure, if you did the US your Warden is dead. But you know what? My Warden and I'm guessing many other Wardens took up the DR and are happily alive and kicking, ready to go on more adventures, especially after how Witch Hunt could end.

Even if you did the US, you've got the Orlesian Warden. So while if you did the US, yes, there is a 0% chance you'll see that Warden again, but every player has their own canon ending. The DR is just as valid as the US. Its the biggest choice from Origins and considering there is no canon, Id hope everyone can see the consequences of said choice down the road in a meaningful and complete way- US or DR.

[Wulfram]

The Warden is too epic to be crammed into a CRPG. I don't think you can write a sensible story and deliver the necessary numbers of level appropriate enemies. Even in higher magic DnD type settings, you tend to be forced to do lame extra-planar stuff to accomodate such powerful characters.

[FedericoV]

Brockololly wrote...

Hate to break it to you, but its not a "My canon is better than your canon!" scenario.So sure, if you did the US your Warden is dead. But you know what? My Warden and I'm guessing many other Wardens took up the DR and are happily alive and kicking, ready to go on more adventures, especially after how Witch Hunt could end.

Even if you did the US, you've got the Orlesian Warden. So while if you did the US, yes, there is a 0% chance you'll see that Warden again, but every player has their own canon ending. The DR is just as valid as the US. Its the biggest choice from Origins and considering there is no canon, Id hope everyone can see the consequences of said choice down the road in a meaningful and complete way- US or DR.

No, I did the DR too and followed Morrigain in the mirror after WH. A nice ending. I've played DA:O only once, so it's my one and only canon and I like it. I must repeat my self: I respect your view.

I'm only saying that (imho) technically there is no way that Bioware will build a new full game (mind, I'm talking about a full game and not an expansion set/DLC) on the adventure of a charachter that could be death or not in the history of Thedas. Just imagine the convoluted storyline, the number of variables and iterations (they were not able to adjust them in a DLC without patching... figure in a full game...)  and the difficulties of the marketing dept. in selling a game with a main protagonist like that... and even if it was just for an expansion, the Orlesian Warden was not a great idea imho and has not worked work so well as an alternative (infact, many Awakening players just continued the story of their warden and undo the US). The Orlesian Warden felt like he does not really belong to the story.

Then, talking personally, I think that the Warden have allready done many things,the potential of his story are mostly done  and there are not many challenges left for him if not going huber epic Throne of Bhaal's style (fighting gods and so on): a scenario that would not fit DA's storytelling approach and that I would hate (allways imho). I can see the consequences of my previous choices even from other point of view and I think that it's better to see things from different perspective (just think about GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire for a good example).

So that's my point: then, I understand that you and many others are really attached to The Warden and his companions. It's Bioware's merit and I feel for you. But I'm not that interested in The Warden anymore and I prefer to play as Hawke in the next game. So, I suppose that we will have to agree to disagree.

Modifié par FedericoV, 22 septembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[Gabey5]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Please, don't start with apocalyptic/pessimistic threads. Again.
While I understand your concern, we barely know anything about the game.

this sums it up

[WelshDragon14]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

And since it's kinda jerky to drop a blue name just to crack a joke, I will tackle these questions from the OP. Apologies if I sound like I'm repeating myself, since some of this info is out there already, but the OP has some fair questions. I shall endeavor to take them by the numbers:

1. Look into various posts from Mr. Gaider for details, but effectively what having a voiced character will do is let you hear your character. The writing team's the same, the philosophy's the same, and there's some things we can do with a voiced character (like cutting someone off, or getting involved in debate, or making inspiring speeches) that we simply could not do with a silent character.

2. Make it look and play a lot better. People get pretty riled about "action," but the simple truth is that this is still Dragon Age under the hood, it's just paying more attention. No more silly shuffling into position, no more "lag" as your character takes what feels like forever to fire an arrow of slaying. You want something dead? Your characters will hop to it. And look more stylish in the process.

And yes. There's an inventory. Like you expect. So what's probably the #1 worry on the hardcore RPG fan's mind should be settled.

3. I cannot answer many of these questions without keeping you in the dark, as per your request, but here's what you probably know:

• Hawke survives lothering.
• Hawke becomes the champion.
• Hawke probably goes toe to toe with a Qunari for some reason, because they made a trailer about it.
• The world ends up in pretty serious trouble, and war's a-coming.

Beyond that? You're not going to know much more about Hawke than Cassandra. After all, if she knew the answers, she wouldn't be staring down captain chest hair, would she? And if we told you, the player, all the answers? We might as well just pack this thing up and head home, because there would be no point.

The driving force behind DA2 is not a blight, not an archdemon. It's a question: "Who was the Champion of Kirkwall?" And answering that question before you've played or during the opening moments of the rather defeats the purpose. It would be like catching the Archdemon in the wilds, killing it there (I imagine Daveth would make Jory do the killing blow.) and spending 50 hours walking around solving problems for no reason.

And that would suck. So we're not doing that. Guaranteed.

[*]Made my day.

[PsyrenY]

- Songlian - wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

And since it's kinda jerky to drop a blue name just to crack a joke, I will tackle these questions from the OP. 

You, sir, are made of win. 

Ditto

[Mykel54]

Optimystic_X wrote...

- Songlian - wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

And since it's kinda jerky to drop a blue name just to crack a joke, I will tackle these questions from the OP. 

You, sir, are made of win. 

Ditto

Tritto

[Anarya]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Beyond that? You're not going to know much more about Hawke than Cassandra. After all, if she knew the answers, she wouldn't be staring down captain chest hair, would she?

I dunno, Mike. The chest hair is pretty mesmerizing.



I think she kinda likes it.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Sometimes I just leave a build running on my machine to stare at it while I do other work, it's true.

[Anarya]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Sometimes I just leave a build running on my machine to stare at it while I do other work, it's true.

I understand completely. Few things have such perfect balance of comfort and titillation.

[Amioran]

Monica83 wrote...

Mass effect its a perfect example same company.. Bioware

No, it isn't.

A) Not same writers.
Also same authors can produce good or bad work. Name doesn't automatically means same outcome. If it was so easy...
C) Different games, different settings. What it is bad for one can be good for another and viceversa.

As always, you just consider what you want, discarding all the rest.

Modifié par Amioran, 22 septembre 2010 - 07:48 .

[Ariella]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Sometimes I just leave a build running on my machine to stare at it while I do other work, it's true.

I'm envious, for several reasons. Sure beats staring at a blank screen or page.

[Apollo Starflare]

Brockololly wrote...

dheer wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
And besides, some might see it more as continuing with Luke Skywalker after A New Hope. He accomplished a great thing, blowing up the Death Star. It doesn't mean his story has to be over though.

Spot on. Exactly how I feel about  the end of the Warden's story in Origins. I thought, great, what's next? What new area of the map will my Warden travel to next to adventure?

Then Hawke's game was announced.

Bingo. They gave us the big choices in Origins....and then the game ended. Where are the consequences? Sure if you go all martyr US on the Archdemon, thats it, but then you go on with the Orlesian. Its like saying Luke was a fully trained and knowledgable Jedi Knight after A New Hope and his story was done- the Hero fo Ferelden is still a noob Warden whose only interaction with the Wardens was with Duncan, Riordan and Alistair (ignoring Awakening). It would be nice to see more or how the Wardens operate outside of backwater Ferelden and what they'd think of the Wardens that did the DR or dealt with the Architect. Presumably you've got a wide range of Wardens- some who would think doing the DR was nuts and others who would gladly do it.

Witch Hunt sets things up for the Wardens at large taking an interest in Morrigan, so should Morrigan pop up and play a role in the future, I hope its the Hero of Ferelden/Wardens dealing with her, especially given how Witch Hunt can possibly end...

Not that I disagree that more Warden adventures would be superfuntime (and I hope we somehow see them in the future), but Star Wars is just one example of a hero's journey that doesn't end at event X, there are other examples where the hero does go off into the sunset - or even merely doesn't have the rest of his life chronicled. In any case I would compare the achievement of our Warden in Origins more to the defeat of the Empire in Return of the Jedi, it's essentially the end of the Darkspawn threat until the next blight long after the Warden is dead, much like how the Empire was so badly beaten that it couldn't properly recover etc.

I don't know, it's almost endlessly debatable. Personally I love making new characters anyway and relish the chance to discover who my Hawke/s are, but that's just me. My favourite way they could have ended the Warden's story would have been with a DLC/expansion based around his or her calling and the subsequent events surrounding it (appearences from all potential love interests and as many former party members as possible, Ferelden realising it would need a new Commander etc. One last crisis, and then the final trip into the Deep Roads).

[Amioran]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

...no more "lag" as your character takes what feels like forever to fire an arrow of slaying. You want something dead? Your characters will hop to it.

You stole that from me! Say the truth. You stole that idea from my mod. Georg did do the spy I know, I shouldn't have him "support" my mod at the time, damn thief.  ;-))

I will take a lawyer, tomorrow, or sometime soon.

(If it was not evident - joking).

Modifié par Amioran, 22 septembre 2010 - 07:58 .

[Brockololly]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
Not that I disagree that more Warden adventures would be superfuntime (and I hope we somehow see them in the future), but Star Wars is just one example of a hero's journey that doesn't end at event X, there are other examples where the hero does go off into the sunset - or even merely doesn't have the rest of his life chronicled.

Oh, I agree- I mean my Warden went off into Mirror World with Morrigan and if that was the last I saw of them, that would be a perfectly awesome "off into the sunset" type ending. I'll preface what I'm going to say that I am an unabashed Morrigan fanboy (surprise, surprise:wizard:)

That said, my potential issue going forward is the notion that it seems as if Morrigan will definitely be coming back and playing a major role in DA's future, all but certainly after DA2. Now if thats DA3, then considering how Witch Hunt ended, (for romancing Wardens especially , but the other Wardens too given the choices you can make with Morrigan) the Warden should be back to deal with Morrigan and the consequences of their actions regarding Morrigan whether thats the DR and Old God baby or how you treated Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt. Morrigan and in turn Flemeth, the OGB and "Change" are all big plot points that to achieve maximum "emotional engagement" should ideally be dealt with by the Warden- whether thats the Orlesian or the Hero of Ferelden.

So thats my reason for wanting the Warden to continue on in some capacity- if Morrigan comes back into the story but the Warden is conspicuously absent in what is likely the big moment in Morrigan's plan, that would really just let all the air out of that plot for me. For better or worse, the lack of answers in Witch Hunt and the ability of the Warden to go off with Morrigan or gut her or get some mysterious gift from her, all leave unresolved plot threads that would feel cheap and flimsy if dealt with by some new PC in DA3 or 4 or whenever. All Wardens have some connection to Morrigan, some greater than others, but to have some new random PC Hero Guy deal with the epic culmination of Morrigan's story while the Warden, the person thats set that ball rolling, is no where to be found or written off, would be supremely unsatisfying.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 septembre 2010 - 08:18 .

[Aggie Punbot]

SirOccam wrote...
We've seen very little of the game. It's still 5 and a half months away. That also means I can't know that the game is amazing, so I can only recommend waiting until you play it, or at least see a good chunk of it. Don't let unanswered questions become gripes before they've even had a chance to be answered.

Okay, I just have to respond to this part. A lot of people have said that, but there's an inherent problem with this idea. In order to play it, you will have to buy it. If someone isn't sure if it's worth their money, they won't be willing to buy it. As far as I am aware, most businesses will not allow someone to return a (potentially registered) game simply because they didn't like it. How exactly is someone supposed to be able to know if they'll like it without buying it?

Did DA:O have a playable demo that everyone (not just a very select few) got to play?

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 22 septembre 2010 - 08:52 .

[JrayM16]

TS2Aggie wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
We've seen very little of the game. It's still 5 and a half months away. That also means I can't know that the game is amazing, so I can only recommend waiting until you play it, or at least see a good chunk of it. Don't let unanswered questions become gripes before they've even had a chance to be answered.

Okay, I just have to respond to this part. A lot of people have said that, but there's an inherent problem with this idea. In order to play it, you will have to buy it. If someone isn't sure if it's worth their money, they won't be willing to buy it. As far as I am aware, most businesses will not allow someone to return a (potentially registered) game simply because they didn't like it. How exactly is someone supposed to be able to know if they'll like it without buying it?

Did DA:O have a playable demo that everyone (not just a very select few) got to play?

You're right in that this is a problem, but it is not a problem exclusive to BW games, or even videogames in general. 

I agree with you on a level of principal, however there are two holes in your logic, one of which is unhelpful and potentially annoying, the other helpful and could allow you to circumvent your issue altogether.

Firstly, no entertainment product has a system for an actual return if you did not enjoy it.  If I go to a movie theater and see a movie and don't like it, I can't get a refund.  This is the same for DVDs, books, music, and videogames.  You have the option to sell it back used, but can't return a game like that without an actual technical problem with the game not working.

The other issue I have may actually be your key to not accidentally wasting $60 or missing out on a potentially great game.  Wait until the game comes out, then don't buy it immediately.  Look to see what people on the forums are saying, what reviews are saying, and then make a decision as an informed consumer, rather than a mindless drone of the hype machine. 

Making an informed decision will make you happier in the end regardless of whether or not you choose to buy the game.

Your welcome. 

[soundchaser721]

I just hope at some point in the next 5 months to launch we get some info on the save import system. It seems kinda unimportant when compared to the need for gameplay vids but I'd like to know the extent of the system and what it plans on taking into account. That being said I have my doubts about it considering the way the imports were handled in awakening and witch hunt- it would totally suck to be like 20 hours invested into DA2 and to find out that some importing flags got messed up and some of your decisions weren't fully registered.

[JrayM16]

soundchaser721 wrote...

I just hope at some point in the next 5 months to launch we get some info on the save import system. It seems kinda unimportant when compared to the need for gameplay vids but I'd like to know the extent of the system and what it plans on taking into account. That being said I have my doubts about it considering the way the imports were handled in awakening and witch hunt- it would totally suck to be like 20 hours invested into DA2 and to find out that some importing flags got messed up and some of your decisions weren't fully registered.

Well, we won't be able to figure out whether certain flags are glitched or not till we actually play the game.  As for the actual process of transferring saves, I remember there was a video explaining how that would work in ME2 a few weeks before its release so I assume we will get something similar with DA2.

[Reaverwind]

soundchaser721 wrote...

I just hope at some point in the next 5 months to launch we get some info on the save import system. It seems kinda unimportant when compared to the need for gameplay vids but I'd like to know the extent of the system and what it plans on taking into account. That being said I have my doubts about it considering the way the imports were handled in awakening and witch hunt- it would totally suck to be like 20 hours invested into DA2 and to find out that some importing flags got messed up and some of your decisions weren't fully registered.

The default setting is far more important to me - I don't care to preserve any saves to put through a faulty import process.