157 réponses à ce sujet

[MKDAWUSS]

SteveGarbage wrote...

I know that's a text wall, but for those of you who powered through it, thanks for reading!

But was hiring those people more expensive in the FMV (AKA live action) days?

[Brockololly]

SteveGarbage wrote...
I think people fail to understand that voice acting isn't a big money business. Adding VO for the main character obviously adds a lot of dialogue to the game, but even if that VO made the same as GTA's lead VA of $100,000, that's still only one half of 1 percent of a $20 million budget.

I don't think player VO adds dialogue to the game- it takes it away. Unless they allocate more to their VO /writing budget, I have a hard time thinking that once you add in male/female Hawke plus all their variations that that VO wouldn't cut into the amount of other VO for all the other companions and characters in the game compared to Origins. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...

SteveGarbage wrote...
So, too much? I doubt it. Really in the grand scheme of things, you're only adding one, albeit very large, chunk of voice acting. But most of the VO is already there in Origins for every other character except for the main. I mean compared to Origins, the VO portion of Dragon Age 2 is maybe, $50-150,000 more? That's not that much at all.

You're adding 2 (male and female) MASSIVE chunks of voice acting that you didn't have to worry about in Origins. And its not just recording the VO- then you have to include cinematics and more animation for everything player VO Hawke is doing and then if something gets cut later on instead of being able to simply re-write the PC's lines you now need to bring that actor back in and it likely snowballs from there. Its not just a matter of writing a check to the voice actors in the role of Hawke- its all thge other stuff that makes player VO expensive I'd imagine.

And IMO, that would all be money and resources better spent elsewhere.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 septembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
In otherwords keep doing what you're doing rather than taking the Gaider condescending route.

Oh, is that where I am?

Here I thought I was driving down Entitlement Way. Well no wonder.

Oh I supposed expecting a series, at least in the first title, meant as a spirital successor to BG2 to kinda stay in that vein, rather than see it get Mass Effect'ed up in order to appeal more to the pew pew action console crowd, is being entitled. Riiiight!  

[Morroian]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Oh I supposed expecting a series, at least in the first title, meant as a spirital successor to BG2 to kinda stay in that vein, rather than see it get Mass Effect'ed up in order to appeal more to the pew pew action console crowd, is being entitled. Riiiight!  

Yeah it kinda is actually, even if your description was accurate which I doubt.

Modifié par Morroian, 24 septembre 2010 - 06:09 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Oh I supposed expecting a series, at least in the first title, meant as a spirital successor to BG2 to kinda stay in that vein, rather than see it get Mass Effect'ed up in order to appeal more to the pew pew action console crowd, is being entitled. Riiiight!  

Yeah it kinda is actually, even if your description was accurate which I doubt.

So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Oh I supposed expecting a series, at least in the first title, meant as a spirital successor to BG2 to kinda stay in that vein, rather than see it get Mass Effect'ed up in order to appeal more to the pew pew action console crowd, is being entitled. Riiiight!  

Yeah it kinda is actually, even if your description was accurate which I doubt.

So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

Look, BioWare made games,, you bought them, you enjoyed them (or not). BioWare owes you nothing, if you don't like the titles they are releasing now you stop buying them. Just because BioWare made a kind of game that had many fans in the past they have no doubt to those fans and don't need to create new games to the taste of their fans. And you are completely wrong on the beind Mass Effectified. Only thing similar is only human plus player voice over. Everytghing else is still dragon age.

[AlanC9]

Hey, who says Bio isn't catering to their fans? I've been following Bio since I picked up the BG2 demo disc in CGW, and Sarah doesn't speak for me.



I also don't know where she's getting the "pew pew" idea. Maybe the consoles are getting a bit more action-y, but from what I've heard console DAO wasn't all that great in the first place. Not that I really give a damn what happens on the consoles.



As for the actual topic, looks like Steve finished it off.

[SirOccam]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Oh I supposed expecting a series, at least in the first title, meant as a spirital successor to BG2 to kinda stay in that vein, rather than see it get Mass Effect'ed up in order to appeal more to the pew pew action console crowd, is being entitled. Riiiight!  

Yeah it kinda is actually, even if your description was accurate which I doubt.

So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

They already "gave back." You gave them money, and they gave you a game. You got your reward.

You seem to be (in general) a fan of BioWare, so I can only assume you felt like you got your money's worth. I don't understand why voluntarily completing a series of transactions means you can now leverage that in order to tell BioWare how to design their games in the future.

How about you "give back" to the folks who delivered quality game after quality game to you over the years by cutting them a little damn slack? God forbid they ever make a decision you disagree with.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

SirOccam wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Oh I supposed expecting a series, at least in the first title, meant as a spirital successor to BG2 to kinda stay in that vein, rather than see it get Mass Effect'ed up in order to appeal more to the pew pew action console crowd, is being entitled. Riiiight!  

Yeah it kinda is actually, even if your description was accurate which I doubt.

So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

They already "gave back." You gave them money, and they gave you a game. You got your reward.

You seem to be (in general) a fan of BioWare, so I can only assume you felt like you got your money's worth. I don't understand why voluntarily completing a series of transactions means you can now leverage that in order to tell BioWare how to design their games in the future.

How about you "give back" to the folks who delivered quality game after quality game to you over the years by cutting them a little damn slack? God forbid they ever make a decision you disagree with.

I wasn't intending to leverage anything, just making my opinion known, I'm sorry if thats offensive to you. I'd just hate to see DA go the way of ME2 is all, because I really enjoyed ME1. And when you take into consideration the issues Awakening had, and some of the lackluster DLC's, well one tends to get a tad worried that their current favorite RPG series may be headed in the wrong direction.

Granted I'm sure this is where you'll throw the "different teams and smaller budget excuse" but at the end of the day most expect a level of quality from Bioware at this point and hold them to higher standards than your average developer, because they DO like you said have a history of putting out great titles. In the same light though that hardly means one can't criticise some of the development decisions they've made.

Like I said in another thread, some of the things Mike has answered has set my mind at ease a bit, but its really difficult to stay postive when comparisons to ME2 keep reappearing.

[saruman31]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Oh I supposed expecting a series, at least in the first title, meant as a spirital successor to BG2 to kinda stay in that vein, rather than see it get Mass Effect'ed up in order to appeal more to the pew pew action console crowd, is being entitled. Riiiight!  

Yeah it kinda is actually, even if your description was accurate which I doubt.

So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

They already "gave back." You gave them money, and they gave you a game. You got your reward.

You seem to be (in general) a fan of BioWare, so I can only assume you felt like you got your money's worth. I don't understand why voluntarily completing a series of transactions means you can now leverage that in order to tell BioWare how to design their games in the future.

How about you "give back" to the folks who delivered quality game after quality game to you over the years by cutting them a little damn slack? God forbid they ever make a decision you disagree with.

I wasn't intending to leverage anything, just making my opinion known, I'm sorry if thats offensive to you. I'd just hate to see DA go the way of ME2 is all, because I really enjoyed ME1. And when you take into consideration the issues Awakening had, and some of the lackluster DLC's, well one tends to get a tad worried that their current favorite RPG series may be headed in the wrong direction.

Granted I'm sure this is where you'll throw the "different teams and smaller budget excuse" but at the end of the day most expect a level of quality from Bioware at this point and hold them to higher standards than your average developer, because they DO like you said have a history of putting out great titles. In the same light though that hardly means one can't criticise some of the development decisions they've made.

Like I said in another thread, some of the things Mike has answered has set my mind at ease a bit, but its really difficult to stay postive when comparisons to ME2 keep reappearing.

I agree. ME2 was a MONUMENTAL failure compared to ME1. Sure, it was good but nowhere near its predecessor. 

[SteveGarbage]

Brockololly wrote...

I don't think player VO adds dialogue to the game- it takes it away. Unless they allocate more to their VO /writing budget, I have a hard time thinking that once you add in male/female Hawke plus all their variations that that VO wouldn't cut into the amount of other VO for all the other companions and characters in the game compared to Origins. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...

I don't see why it would need to subtract dialogue. The writing team is fully capable of writing as much dialogue for Hawke as they did for the Warden. The additional cost comes from the voice for the two Hawke voice actors. As I said in my earlier post, it's likely that neither of those voice actors are making more than $100,000 to voice the main, so maybe an additional $200,000 at the most, but that's probably high.

Brockololly wrote...
You're adding 2 (male and female) MASSIVE chunks of voice acting that you didn't have to worry about in Origins. And its not just recording the VO- then you have to include cinematics and more animation for everything player VO Hawke is doing and then if something gets cut later on instead of being able to simply re-write the PC's lines you now need to bring that actor back in and it likely snowballs from there. Its not just a matter of writing a check to the voice actors in the role of Hawke- its all thge other stuff that makes player VO expensive I'd imagine.

And IMO, that would all be money and resources better spent elsewhere.

That is true - the animation is one variable that I can't account for and I doubt that would be one I could turn up data on what it costs. I have no idea how they do lip-synching type stuff from the developer side. I have this assumption that it's probably tedious and time consuming work, which is where you would rack up a lot of hours. But again, it's lip synching for two characters (although large characters) among a cast of hundreds. I can't speak to those costs and they probably are there.

simfamSP wrote...
SteveGarbage...Steven Hawking...

I KNOW WHO YOU ARE! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]
But seriously (or am I right [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]?)
you are a very smart person, who knows what he's on about I think even
Morrigan would aproove of you saving the Circle, since you'd come up
with a very detailed explanation on how saving it= more power for her

Errr, no, haha. I did OK in school I guess (would have done better if I cared/didn't slack). I do work in newspaper now so doing research is a big part of my job. If people just take like 15 minutes to try to research things instead of guessing you can get a pretty good idea. Sure, my estimates are still filled with lots of guesses, but based on the available information out there, you can at least form a rough idea of what things cost.

[David Gaider]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

Oh, so this is Entitlement Way. Good, I thought I'd gotten lost for a minute there.

Just took a detour down Elitist Avenue, which is okay since it's in the same neighbourhood.

[ENolan]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

Oh, so this is Entitlement Way. Good, I thought I'd gotten lost for a minute there.

Just took a detour down Elitist Avenue, which is okay since it's in the same neighbourhood.

Ouch. Talk about customizing your fireballs, huh? I can feel the scroch marks from here. But if I ever saw real response to something, THIS would be it.

[David Gaider]

The Director wrote...
Ouch. Talk about customizing your fireballs, huh? I can feel the scroch marks from here. But if I ever saw real response to something, THIS would be it.

What? I'm just making my opinion known. Can't be anything wrong with that.

[Risax]

The Director wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

Oh, so this is Entitlement Way. Good, I thought I'd gotten lost for a minute there.

Just took a detour down Elitist Avenue, which is okay since it's in the same neighbourhood.

Ouch. Talk about customizing your fireballs, huh? I can feel the scroch marks from here. But if I ever saw real response to something, THIS would be it.

Well... David is intiteled to defend his opinion, just like the fanboys. Though they should now by now that they are not going to win a battle with words between David and them. That's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Modifié par Risax, 24 septembre 2010 - 02:40 .

[eyesofastorm]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

Oh, so this is Entitlement Way. Good, I thought I'd gotten lost for a minute there.

Just took a detour down Elitist Avenue, which is okay since it's in the same neighbourhood.

Why don't you just say, "Go away" or even "F*** off."?  It would be so much more elegant.  And then maybe the people who loved the company you used to be would finally get the message.

[DPB]

AlanC9 wrote...

Hey, who says Bio isn't catering to their fans? I've been following Bio since I picked up the BG2 demo disc in CGW, and Sarah doesn't speak for me.

Yep, I've been buying Bioware's games since BG1 and I'm perfectly happy with the direction they're heading.

By all means speak your opinion, but don't try to make out that you're a spokesperson for everyone who followed Bioware since the early days.

[David Gaider]

eyesofastorm wrote...
Why don't you just say, "Go away" or even "F*** off."?  It would be so much more elegant.  And then maybe the people who loved the company you used to be would finally get the message.

I'm not telling anyone to "go away" or anything else.

But if someone can sit there and say "we made you and thus we're **** to receive what we want in the future" and expect that the **** in that sentence isn't "entitled" then they're only fooling themselves. Expressing your opinion and saying what you're hoping to see is just fine., but there's a line between that and feeling entitled to get something-- even while you ironically express how loyal you are to our company-- and most people can see that line just fine.

If you wish to suggest that we're making something other than what you want because we don't love you enough and how we've changed, and how you're going to leave heartbroken messages on our answering machine until we change our minds-- well, okay, but don't expect it to go without comment. Especially if you throw up the "it's just my opinion" defense.

Modifié par David Gaider, 24 septembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[Lord Gremlin]

Hm, why so secretive about budget anyway? We just wish to know what scale we're talking about - huge budget, like 40,60, 100 millions dollars, or something way smaller, like around 10 millions.



It's not like we want to judge the game by budget, like people usually do it for movies...

[SteveGarbage]

Lord Gremlin wrote...
It's not like we want to judge the game by budget, like people usually do it for movies...

Oh please, that's exactly what's at play, heh. As I said before, budget doesn't have much of an effect anyway unless it's really high or really low and I seriously doubt it's either.

[John Epler]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I think that we're coming back to the notion that everyone has their own opinion about the quality of games - it's certainly not an objective measurement.. Of my top five games, two came out in the 90s, one came out in the year 2000, one in the mid 2000s and one is a release from this year.

Really?  Nothing from the '80s?

Those 4 I mentioned were 1985, 1992, 1998, and 1999.

I left out the fifth because I've never really nailed that one down.  Right now I'm leaning toward Wasteland, which was 1988.

There are certainly games that came out in the 80s that I consider important and had fun with, but on a personal level, the games I've enjoyed most came out from the early 90s onwards. And again - I think what era you consider to be that with the highest quality of games will depend heavily on what it is you value most in a game. I'm rather indecisive about what makes a game fun to me, so my choices range from 1992 to 2010 Some people, however, undoubtedly have a clearer focus.

But I'm taking this dangerously off-topic

[addiction21]

dbankier wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Hey, who says Bio isn't catering to their fans? I've been following Bio since I picked up the BG2 demo disc in CGW, and Sarah doesn't speak for me.

Yep, I've been buying Bioware's games since BG1 and I'm perfectly happy with the direction they're heading.

By all means speak your opinion, but don't try to make out that you're a spokesperson for everyone who followed Bioware since the early days.

Pretty much this and I get the added bonus of swinging the "I've been a BioWare fan since Shattered Steel" stick which is longer and thicker the the "fans since BG crowd"
Funny thing is these tend to be the same people that confuse "spirtual successor" with "carbon copy clone"

As for the budget... has anyone done the "bigger then a breadbox smaller then a tanker" joke yet?

[HTTP 404]

eyesofastorm wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

Oh, so this is Entitlement Way. Good, I thought I'd gotten lost for a minute there.

Just took a detour down Elitist Avenue, which is okay since it's in the same neighbourhood.

Why don't you just say, "Go away" or even "F*** off."?  It would be so much more elegant.  And then maybe the people who loved the company you used to be would finally get the message.

whoa whoa.  I see the words "loved" and "entitled" which makes me think of the word "obessesed" and "crazy" like one of my Ex's I know.

We are the consumer. bioware are the producer of a product.  that is the relationship.  We are fans of the product, we dont make the product no matter how many suggestions we can make.  My opinion should not be worth more than anyone elses, I spend 60ish bucks on their game just like anyone else.  Bioware doesnt have to "owe" anyone anything.  I have been a fan of bioware since BG2 and played every game since, when they make a game I dislike, Ill just move on.  Its as simple as that. 

I think Im off topic, but I did throw in 60 bucks in my paragraph that relates to OP right?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So much for giving back to the folks who have bought every Bioware game then, and have enjoyed helping the studio suceed over the years. That we finally got a throw back to those titles that made us Bioware fans in the first place. I guess thats some how  asking too much when there's so much more money to be made catering to the "new ****" crowd, how incredibly greedy of me.

Oh, so this is Entitlement Way. Good, I thought I'd gotten lost for a minute there.

Just took a detour down Elitist Avenue, which is okay since it's in the same neighbourhood.

And you wonder why I find most of your replies condescending. When EA shutters you guys in 5 years after the addh crowd gets bored of Bioware games and moves on to something else, maybe you'll care again about the old fans.

It has very little to do with entitlement, obviously you guys are going to, and should make the game you want to make, I would just hope you'd keep a few of the old timer's likes in mind. But apparently thats soooo much to ask, and makes one an elitist. Ok sure there Gaider whatever you say.